Knife Line With Multiple Personality Disorder?

[Greenbriel]

In February Knifewear posted a reasonably priced line to their Instagram account. I thought that the 165mm nakiri looked a whole lot like one I had bought at CKTG maybe a year earlier. Upon closer inspection, I am pretty sure they are the same blade but with different names, maker marks and handles. CKTG say they are exclusive to them, and they are a good bit cheaper there than at KnifeWear. I asked KW about it and they said:

"Wild, they definitely look similar! It's entirely possible. Some knife companies buy their knives from the same blacksmith then sharpen and finish the knives their own way, which is one possibility."

Then in the last few days someone here mentioned something or other that led me to this knife from Carbon Knife Co., which seems like the same one again (with the same handle as mine from CKTG - they look different in these photos but the CKTG photo is overexposed compared to reality) under another different name and maker mark.

I think it’s a great value knife, especially at the CKTG price, in fact I’ve bought two more as gifts since I got mine. No shade to any of the sellers intended whatsoever, I’m just curious if this happens a lot in the Japanese knife world.

Cheers.

Knifewear:

CKTG:

Carbon Knife Co:

 

[btbyrd]

It's not uncommon for knife manufacturers to function as OEM knife makers for other companies (especially knife shops) who rebrand them. It's more common with lower-end blades that tend to function as the "house brand" of knives for the store that are more budget friendly, but sometimes more expensive knives are sold this way. Sukenari, for example, brands some of their damascus clad ZDP knives to Yoshihiro (eChefknife.com). And Sukenari is known to function as an OEM in addition to being their own brand. Sometimes these knives are genuinely exclusive to the store offering them, sometimes not. And sometimes there are exclusive variations in things like heat treatment or handle type that can set apart knives from store to store.

 

[Greenbriel]

Very interesting, thanks for that information @btbyrd. I wonder who is actually forging these blades.

If only there was a list of these similar blades compiled somewhere so we could find the best values!

 

[nwshull]

Pretty sure I have this from a store in the kappabashi too.

Small japanese knife supply chains work where, for the most part, the workshops sell to a vendor who then deals directly with the consumers. They don't sell under brand names of the smith or factory.

As they've shifted more towards the western market that has definitely started to change, but particularly when you're dealing with a smith or factory that doesn't have hype like Yoshikane or Y Tanaka for instance, I would expect them to sell under the vendor brand name rather than the smith or factory. Even these sometime do if the vendor is known for adding value like Konosuke.

 

[Greenbriel]

Thanks @nwshull, I'm learning so much from the forum!

Like the fact that a Tanaka and/or Watanabe is about to drain my checking account any day now.

 

[applepieforbreakfast]

I wonder who is actually forging these blades.

IIRC, these are rebranded Tadafusa knives.

 

[Greenbriel]

Damn you guys know a lot of stuff. Thanks @applepieforbreakfast, I’ll check them out!

I’m thinking about thinning mine, which I’ve not done before.

 

[Delat]

Tsunehisa, Harukaze, JCK Blue Moon I think are all the same OEM.

JCK’s FRKZ line is also various makers rebranded.

 

[Greenbriel]

Tsunehisa, Harukaze, JCK Blue Moon I think are all the same OEM.

JCK’s FRKZ line is also various makers rebranded.

Wow! This OEM gets around! I think the Tsunehisa and JCK Blue Moon are definitely the same blade - the Harukaze line looks a little different to me.

Thanks @Delat!

 

[tostadas]

Tsunehisa, Harukaze, JCK Blue Moon I think are all the same OEM.

JCK’s FRKZ line is also various makers rebranded.

Wow! This OEM gets around! I think the Tsunehisa and JCK Blue Moon are definitely the same blade - the Harukaze line looks a little different to me.

Thanks @Delat!

I believe Harukaze is the same line as Tsunehisa. The Blue Moon seems to be more like the Tadafusa/Fujimoto/Kohetsu B#2

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Tsunehisa and Harukaze are same-same maker. They have another house brand name too that I can't remember just now.

 

[Greenbriel]

Yes, looking more closely I can see you guys are right. I bought mine as a "Kohetsu" in B#2 and it definitely looks the same as the others you list whereas the Tsunehisa and Harukaze look slightly different (and are different steel).

Thanks again, enlightening stuff!

 

[Delat]

I believe Harukaze is the same line as Tsunehisa. The Blue Moon seems to be more like the Tadafusa/Fujimoto/Kohetsu B#2

Oh right, I was thinking of JCK Natures and "Blue Clouds". They have so many house brands these days it's hard to keep track.

 

[Jovidah]

This happens a lot. The knife in question looks like the same knife that's sold as the JCK Natures Blue Clouds, and in some other places, and to my knowledge is originally made by Tadefusa. They have a western handle version of the same knife as well (with pretty nice looking walnut handle).
It's basically just OEMs making knives for stores, or other brands. It happens a lot, and it really can become a confusing mess to try and track down who actually makes what. Knowing who the OEM is doesn't necessarily help you much further either; similar looks do not have to mean similar specs; they could be heattreated differently, finished to different standards or whatever.

Tsunehisa to my knowledge is just a 'rebranding' brand... I don't think they're an actual producer. Same might apply to some other brands.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

This happens a lot. The knife in question looks like the same knife that's sold as the JCK Natures Blue Clouds, and in some other places, and to my knowledge is originally made by Tadefusa. They have a western handle version of the same knife as well (with pretty nice looking walnut handle).
It's basically just OEMs making knives for stores, or other brands. It happens a lot, and it really can become a confusing mess to try and track down who actually makes what. Knowing who the OEM is doesn't necessarily help you much further either; similar looks do not have to mean similar specs; they could be heattreated differently, finished to different standards or whatever.

Tsunehisa to my knowledge is just a 'rebranding' brand... I don't think they're an actual producer. Same might apply to some other brands.

I'm pretty sure Tsunehisa is the maker. Not like a single blacksmith obviously but I believe that is the parent company and manufacturer.

 

[Greenbriel]

It's basically just OEMs making knives for stores, or other brands. It happens a lot, and it really can become a confusing mess to try and track down who actually makes what. Knowing who the OEM is doesn't necessarily help you much further either; similar looks do not have to mean similar specs; they could be heattreated differently, finished to different standards or whatever.

Agreed! It’s enough to make you want to buy a Watanabe. I just got my reply from Shinichi-San.

 

[EShin]

I'm pretty sure Tsunehisa is the maker. Not like a single blacksmith obviously but I believe that is the parent company and manufacturer.

Tsunehisa is like the others a branding and not a producer. As far as I know it is the brand of Knife-Gallery and so of Mr. Shibata, who makes the Koutetsu knives. The knives themselves are produced in Tosa, Kochi prefecture by the Hokiyama company (HOME-global | Hokiyama Cutlery).

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Tsunehisa is like the others a branding and not a producer. As far as I know it is the brand of Knife-Gallery and so of Mr. Shibata, who makes the Koutetsu knives. The knives themselves are produced in Tosa, Kochi prefecture by the Hokiyama company (HOME-global | Hokiyama Cutlery).

Thank you.