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DitmasPork

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For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference
Personally, with B1 vs B2 Kaiju, not enough of a difference for it not to come down to price, it's already at a price point where I'm beginning to cringe.
 

ModRQC

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According to interesting old litterature here, HRC is exponential, but we wouldn't notice much of the exponent increase in the range of kitchen knives. Supposing equal geometry I wouldn't be able to differentiate hardness of a knife much without addressing edge retention - or sharpening. And both the latter are so dependent on other things I wouldn't rely much on my feelings. Paderno crap SS seemed rather hard to me, say VG-10 / FC-61 ballpark - and had probably to do with carbides.

Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.

Good hunting!
 

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Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.

Good hunting!
Have you tried TF AS. If I could only keep one steel this would be it with the TF HT. I can't compare it with the more exotic German 'blue' steels but this is as good as it gets for me. Superb sharpness and long-lasting edge retention. Its a dream to sharpen so altogether achieves that trifector of attributes that make or break a knife steel.
 

M1k3

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Blue 1, 2 and Super are pretty similar yet not. AS has a small vanadium addition a long with more carbon and tungsten. You could say Blue 1 is a middle ground between 2 and AS. With heavy use you could tell a little difference. But at the end of the day, the differences aren't that big to make a night and day difference.
Screenshot_20200925-084621.png
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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I have JNS Tanaka B1 and I had another Tanaka B1 in the past. They don't feel that dense/hard on the stone. I've never used a B2 from Tanaka before so I'd like to try it and see if the difference is noticeable. I think it won't be that noticeable but it's good to try something "different".
 

DitmasPork

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According to interesting old litterature here, HRC is exponential, but we wouldn't notice much of the exponent increase in the range of kitchen knives. Supposing equal geometry I wouldn't be able to differentiate hardness of a knife much without addressing edge retention - or sharpening. And both the latter are so dependent on other things I wouldn't rely much on my feelings. Paderno crap SS seemed rather hard to me, say VG-10 / FC-61 ballpark - and had probably to do with carbides.

Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.

Good hunting!
For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.
It seems like you excluded white 2. I might be overly sensitive but dare I say that I hate white 2? haha
 

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What a sweet looking knife, looks right up my street. I'd be very tempted with the B1 if I wasn't still recovering from the cripplingly expensive import of my B1 Hitohira Tanaka Yohei (it's quoted as "62+" HRC). I'd love to have a shoot-out between the Kaiju and the Hitohira. In my limited experience, the B1 Tanaka feels akin to my B2 (Anryu) on the stones, whereas my AS Hinoura feels significantly different, it has that "tingy" feeling to the edge, if you know what I mean.. no evidence of chipping yet despite the high HRC.
 

nwshull

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For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference
For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference
True, but assuming a normal distribution between the hardness of all knives in both, there is an equal luck of the draw you get two knives with the exact same hardness, no?

200 bucks seems steep, though I do prefer the buffalo handles. On the other hand could probably just buy one separately from KnS and come out ahead.
 

spaceconvoy

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I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.
 

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I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.
No difference in F&F for TF Mab or the considerably more expensive Denka, both equally poor. The difference is the core steel and Denka Ku. For me its worth the extra cost (unless buying 240+) to go Denka. The performance between W#1 and AS is noticeable even in home kitchen. YMMV
 

nwshull

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I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.
Isn't the whole point of this knife costing 600+ dollars is all of them have that attention to detail with polishing and no flat spots? I personally would feel pretty ripped off if I bought one regardless of steel and it did. If its minor minor aesthetics that would vanish after a few uses, I think I wouldn't care, I like to buy knives to get used.
 

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No difference in F&F for TF Mab or the considerably more expensive Denka, both equally poor. The difference is the core steel and Denka Ku. For me its worth the extra cost (unless buying 240+) to go Denka. The performance between W#1 and AS is noticeable even in home kitchen. YMMV
If I may add my 2 cents, assuming performance means cutting ability.

I remember a statement years ago by Delbert Ealy that made the most sense to me. A knife’s cutting ability is entirely due to grind, not the steel.

The Cutting of vegetables & meat can not tell differences between steel, they are far too soft. When I compared my Denka to my Triple thinned mab, it made no difference in cutting.

I don’t deny that the factory TF Denka cuts better than factory Mab, but the differences are due to grind, not steel. From marketing perspective, it also akes sense for TF to maintain an advantage on the Denka with thinner grind for differentiation to justify pricing.

IMHO, instead of paying 2x the price of Denka. one can thin the maboroshi to make it cut just like Denka. If anything, white 1 can be sharpened to a finer edge than AS, thus, under identical grind & profile, a Maborochi may actually outperform Denka in cutting.
 

Eloh

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@ma_sha1
i'm pretty sure he means steel performance in terms of edge retention (etc) in this context

Guess I don't care... Look at the price @Kippington sold his last one. I wouldn't be first in line for any Konosuke. In the ways that make sense, Kipp's work is much more dedicated.
agreed, another plus (to me) is that it's mono steel instead of san mai
 

ma_sha1

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@ma_sha1
i'm pretty sure he means steel performance in terms of edge retention (etc) in this context

In terms of edge retention performance, yes, AS will be better. But as a home cook, I cant really tell them apart due to low usage. All my knives regardless of steel, have too long of edge retention, I sometimes sharpen them for no reason, not because they are dull.
 
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Corradobrit1

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Yes, edge retention and the ability to achieve acute grind angles without compromising edge stability (microchipping) or longevity. Even though the HRC is high the TF AS steel is not brittle or delicate
 

DitmasPork

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It seems like you excluded white 2. I might be overly sensitive but dare I say that I hate white 2? haha
Not an intentional omission. I don't hate white 2, got a few knives in that steel, easy to sharpen. I've obviously not used all of carbons, but have knives in b1, b2, w1, w2, v2, 52100, 135Cr3, 145sc. No problematic issues with either, pros/cons with all of them.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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In terms of edge retention performance, yes, AS will be better. But as a home cook, I cant really tell them apart due to liw usage. All my knives regardless of steel, have too long of edge retention, I sometimes sharpen them for no reason, not because they are dull.
Same situation here. All of my knives get sharpened before they get dull, with exception to maybe knives in white 2 steel.

Not an intentional omission. I don't hate white 2, got a few knives in that steel, easy to sharpen. I've obviously not used all of carbons, but have knives in b1, b2, w1, w2, v2, 52100, 135Cr3, 145sc. No problematic issues with either, pros/cons with all of them.
No matter it's Mazaki, Munetoshi, Tadatsuna, or Wakui, I can't get enough edge retention from white 2 especially when I cut things like tomatos. I eat tomatoes almost everyday and I frequently dice them. Sometimes they can't chop tomato skin after just a few tomatoes. If they just slice meats the edge retention is ok. I haven't tried enough of my white 2/3 honyakis and hopefully they are better.
 

DitmasPork

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Same situation here. All of my knives get sharpened before they get dull, with exception to maybe knives in white 2 steel.



No matter it's Mazaki, Munetoshi, Tadatsuna, or Wakui, I can't get enough edge retention from white 2 especially when I cut things like tomatos. I eat tomatoes almost everyday and I frequently dice them. Sometimes they can't chop tomato skin after just a few tomatoes. If they just slice meats the edge retention is ok. I haven't tried enough of my white 2/3 honyakis and hopefully they are better.
Agree. Of the steels I'd mentioned, white 2 typically lacks with edge retention, though not a huge, deal breaking issue for me, since I'm a home cook.
 

spaceconvoy

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Isn't the whole point of this knife costing 600+ dollars is all of them have that attention to detail with polishing and no flat spots? I personally would feel pretty ripped off if I bought one regardless of steel and it did. If its minor minor aesthetics that would vanish after a few uses, I think I wouldn't care, I like to buy knives to get used.
You're probably right, but I still think it's more of a marketing device than a real practical difference. CrapKnivesToGo and TKA are at opposite ends of the spectrum in the relatively small world of North American kitchen knife retailers, but Konosuke has to keep them both happy. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to tell the difference in practical use between the TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions.

But something has to justify their price difference, and the slightly different steel is enough for TKA customers to imagine their version is somehow ineffably superior. Meanwhile CKTG customers get to feel like they're getting a bargain and can justify still paying a ridiculous amount of money for a knife. It's like the function of generic and name brands of the same product. It's a win-win for both retailers for their specific customer base.
 

DitmasPork

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You're probably right, but I still think it's more of a marketing device than a real practical difference. CrapKnivesToGo and TKA are at opposite ends of the spectrum in the relatively small world of North American kitchen knife retailers, but Konosuke has to keep them both happy. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to tell the difference in practical use between the TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions.

But something has to justify their price difference, and the slightly different steel is enough for TKA customers to imagine their version is somehow ineffably superior. Meanwhile CKTG customers get to feel like they're getting a bargain and can justify still paying a ridiculous amount of money for a knife. It's like the function of generic and name brands of the same product. It's a win-win for both retailers for their specific customer base.
Nicely written.

IMO, when one starts looking at gyutos in the $400+ range, the laws of diminishing returns often comes into the equation.

Lots of variables—all valid—comes into pricing, like materials, labor, rarity/uniqueness, authorship. Target audience, price point the maker positions the knife has a big roll in establishing the price.

For example, probably 98.9% of KKF members scoff at the $800 price tag and 1 year delivery time of a Chelsea Miller chef's knife—but to many of her collectors, her knives are worth every penny, with a formidable queue patiently waiting for a knife. Demand and authorship justifies her pricing—the fact that they sell is proof that they are appropriately priced.

Performance is one of the things I value most in a gyuto. Regarding performance/price, my Takada (b1) out performs my Kato workhorse which is valued at twice the value—authorship ups the price of Kato.

Some have mentioned that the 240 TF Denka is overpriced. For me, the 240 TF Denka is very fairly priced, despite its rough finish—authorship, performance, great steel, mystique, justifying price.

True when you say difference between "TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions" might be imperceptible, but even if TKA version is a bit higher in price, I'd prob go with TKA, if only because I like dealing with them.
 

ModRQC

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For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.
I would generally agree, but most Blue #1 have a steep price, IF steel is of no matter.

But I just stumbled on something that almost make me want to buy a Konosuke just per principle.

In May I bought a Kurosaki Fujin AS 210mm Wa for 315$ CAD. Right now, I see a Fujin AS 180mm Yo for 733$ CAD.

I mean, he does nice blades, but... yeah...

Edit: vendor has no picture but I see that it is the turquoise handle edition... what a joke though.
 

DitmasPork

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I would generally agree, but most Blue #1 have a steep price, IF steel is of no matter.

But I just stumbled on something that almost make me want to buy a Konosuke just per principle.

In May I bought a Kurosaki Fujin AS 210mm Wa for 315$ CAD. Right now, I see a Fujin AS 180mm Yo for 733$ CAD.

I mean, he does nice blades, but... yeah...

Edit: vendor has no picture but I see that it is the turquoise handle edition... what a joke though.
Prob the cheapest Blue 1 is the Kajiwara Blue #1 Kurouchi Gyuto 210mm for the rock bottom price of $135. I've no idea about quality of other elements like HT, etc.
 

ModRQC

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Prob the cheapest Blue 1 is the Kajiwara Blue #1 Kurouchi Gyuto 210mm for the rock bottom price of $135. I've no idea about quality of other elements like HT, etc.
No steel for steel sake’s. Masashi would be my hunt would I want one, and it’s not like they’re hard to get. But I was under (perhaps delusive) impression that those Kono/Hito/Kiku Tanaka B#1 were rather expensive compared to the rest. Then again don’t think I ever laid eyes on an AS offer for those. Perhaps it just follows suit.
 

DitmasPork

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No steel for steel sake’s. Masashi would be my hunt would I want one, and it’s not like they’re hard to get. But I was under (perhaps delusive) impression that those Kono/Hito/Kiku Tanaka B#1 were rather expensive compared to the rest. Then again don’t think I ever laid eyes on an AS offer for those. Perhaps it just follows suit.
See what you mean, I.e. there’s a $120 diff between the Takada b1 and w2.
 

ModRQC

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That would about be expected between B#1 and W2, I guess, though. But yeah in the general sense I was under that impression for similar price comps as you just made.
 

DitmasPork

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That would about be expected between B#1 and W2, I guess, though. But yeah in the general sense I was under that impression for similar price comps as you just made.
Do you think it's material costs or difficulty in working with b1?
 

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There was an interesting thread that derailed over this matter recently, don't remember where. I think difficulty of forging was among foremost reasons, that and the rise of very similar somewhat dubbed better AS offers. I would guess AS would be as difficult to forge, but the thread left me under the impression that B#1 was particularly so. Don't quote me... I just find these discussions interesting.
 
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