Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by labor of love, Jan 16, 2019.
You guys need to do a face off between these two knives. Need to see the report!
I can promise you if nothing else the SLD western is thicker, it’s absolutely nothing like a laser.
The YS is ground very thin behind the edge, and the grind is very tall, by the time the grind hits the spine, the spine is only 1.5mm thick, that is well over 4 cm away from the tip. The spine hits 1 mm thicknes 24 mm away from the tip. The distal taper on this knife is virtous.
Ive read before that the western yoshikanes are way thicker than their wa counterparts, at least coming out of the handle.
All good and valid points, more questions to ask at Bernal and epic tomorrow, if I don’t freeze to death tonight!
Pictures are a must!
Toss some pictures up!
It cuts with confidence. Also the cladding is nice, it’s not soft stainless doesn’t seem like it will scratch easily.
Yeah, yoshikane uses some good cladding. The one on the YS is also on the harder side. Ill se how it goes when its time for thinning, though with how thin the knife already is, plus the excellent edge retention, i don't expect it to be any time soon.
Hawkie I’ll come through w some pics tomorrow.
I recently picked up a 270 HD and while initially skeptical it's made it into the keeper pile. It's not a laser like a Tad, SIH or Gesshin Ginga but is pretty thin. I've had no issues with retention - a little high grit stropping and once on the G2K and G4K keep it coming back for more.
So Readers Digest version of difference between HD, HD2 and YS? I'm gleaning more from this thread than I found searching but I'm a simple guy and like simple explanations.
The difference between HD and HD2 is the steel, or possibly a different heat treat of the same steel. Some claim that HD was better, but there are no specifics and it sounds more like nostalgia than a real difference. Both are semistainless are somewhat soft but have pretty good edge retention, easy to sharpen. Both used to run short, but HD2 in a recent year or a bit over ran truer to size. Both are thin and profiles are similar they are mono construction.
YS is very different, San mai construction. Core steel seems to be HD2, but some claim HD since we don't know what HD or HD2 is, who knows.... What is known is that whatever the steel it is heat treated much harder 63-64 hrc, where hd/HD2 seemed to be around 59-60. YS is supposed to be made by yoshikane. Profile is different too and the knife is thicker, so the grind is different as well. It also seems to run a bit long. Clading is stainless.
I only have experience with HD and HD2 so YS info is just from what I read.
Considering the YS is forged in sanjo I don’t think it’s HD steel, But what do I know?
@daveb it’s interesting that your HD2 isn’t a laser. Is it wa or western?
Thanks Craig. In a moment when I thaw out, gonna get on the horn with Bernal and epic.
Can remember the old days when the Western Yoshikane SKD hammered was dismissed out of hand for being "way too thick" In the current era where thin is no longer in, and "workhorse" knives are fawned over, is anyone still toting one of these? The 270 in particular was an absolute monster.
I started a WTB thread, would love to track one down.
Yeah, don't know. Some theorized that HD/HD2 was SKD12/A2, if true then it could very well be similar/same steel with different heat treat, or could be very different. All that is known for sure is that all of these are semi stainless.
I don't believe the monosteel HD was the same steel as the core of the SKD12 (laminate) coming out of of Yoshikane for one second.
Wow, I handled a Wa Yoshi SLD Dam not too long ago and the choil is shockingly different than its Yo counterpart. The difference looks significant, I would guess the spine on the Wa was around 2.25-2.5 mm thick at the handle, that Yo handled one must be over 3... I wonder if all the Yo handled Yoshis are similar in grind, but considerably different than the Wa handled counterparts.
The HD and HD2 knives are monosteel, and the YS is indeed clad. I've asked a number of different people, and never gotten a straight answer as to what the YS core steel is- closest I've been told was "a semi-stainless similar to HD2".
As far as the differences between HD and HD2? I honestly have a hard time.
I own a couple knives in both the original HD steel, and the HD2.
The switch came when Konosuke ran out of the initial quantity of HD, and didn't have any more available.
How it feels on stones; how it feels cutting, how it reacts to ingredients / water, I honestly can't tell much of a difference. The biggest difference comes down to the sharpening- when I've compared two that had fresh-out-of-the-box-from-Konosuke edges, if I closed my eyes, I couldn't tell.
@Dave was your 270 HD a Yo or Wa? And interesting you felt it was different from a Ginga in grind and feel.
I believe HD2 was supposed to have more wear resistance and less reactivity. I’ve also used plenty of HD and HD2 and couldn’t really detect much difference. Never used them side by side though.
@Labor And that very well may be true! When I've used the HD and HD2 side by side, it certainly wasn't for marathon prep.
...and uhh.. I might have too many knives to quickly find out edge retention..
BTW I already asked if @daveb HD was wa or western. I guess he’s blowing us off
Yeah it’s an interesting grind. Not thin at all, but it’s not thick either. The blade road is evident but there is no crisp shinogi kinda like mazaki. Ofcourse it cuts nothing like mazaki. But still it’s just unusual. I love how strange it is.
I really want to check out the wa version.
It may be A2 or SKD12, but it could be from different manufacturers with a slightly different composition. YS maybe use a Takefu VS1 or Chromax, since Masashi use that steel as well, or other makers of SKD12.
For example, most of Takefu's Blacksmith Aogami Super knife is not from Hitachi, they probably used Takefu V1 Special, where it has slightly lowered carbon content and give a lower HRC around 62~, and their Blue 2 is not Hitachi's and probably use Takefu V2 Special. There is some steel from a different manufacturer that is not famous (like Daido, Aichi, Kobelco etc..) they could use.
My HD is a Wa. Not thick by any means just not quite as thin as a GG , SIH or Tad. (I'm alternating between it and a SIH K Tip right now)
On Yoshi, I had a western handled, SKD from when Maxim was selling the Zensho variant. Best western ever. Loaned it and lost it. Phuck, don't like remembering that.
Well, thanks to Ivang I’ve able to test a kono YS for the last few days.
Here’s my impressions:
The handle is light and small. Pretty good quality finishing on it, but it’s the least wide handle I’ve used in a while. This might be normal for all kono 240mm gyutos. Atleast the HDs.
The profile, regardless of how it looks in photos isn’t to flat at all to be an all arounder. When I was prepping bell pepper curls the other day I was simply lifting the heel of the blade while keeping the front half of the blade on from board to make cuts. The curvature did the work on its own.
The blade has a typical sanjo thickness where the spine meets the handle. The taper along the spine all the way to the tip is real nice. Very nice thin tip. The blade is also pretty stiff all over sorta like how a Masakage Koishi or Kochi might be. Completely different cutting experiences though.
The thing that impressed me the most about the YS is the steel. It took a really really nice edge.. I really have no idea what the steel is. The steel core seems to be less reactive than HD knives and SKD knives I’ve used in the past. I don’t think it’s SLD either. I could be very wrong here but whatever steel it is Yoshikane did an excellent job working with it.
Food release is pretty good too. Hammer pattern on a thin ground blade makes a lot of sense here.
I’m not sure I’d buy one myself, although I wouldn’t mind it. The tiny handle would have to be changed for my tastes. Very good looking knife in person.
Ivang, thanks for loaning it out to me!
I think you should buy one soonest. Then send it to me
Konosuke just released the Konosuke YS-M.
Looks like a 2.0 version of the YS.
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