Kramer Carbon 2.0

[CA_cook]

I had high expectations when I saw the ad for that one. I own the 1.0 and still consider it the best mass production knife. But it cannot hold a candle to all my Japanese blacksmith made blades because it has a flat grind. The 8 was too short and the 10 was just a tad too long… So my hope was that for the 2.0 they will improve the grind and introduce a 9 inch size.

based on the video Bob made about it it’s not much of an improvement. The handle is now micarta instead of real wood used on the 1.0. He claims they improved the distal taper, but the 1.0 was already pretty good on that aspect. So, cheaper materials, same price, no real improvements. Way to go Zwilling…

 

[applepieforbreakfast]

Micarta won't shrink and leave the rivets proud of the surface, so that's a plus in my book.

I'm not sure how prevalent the issue is/was, but I saw it mentioned here and there.

 

[jonnachang]

Yes, I believe the Blackwood handle did have some issues. I just want to see a 52100 Meiji line. Cheers.

 

[toddnmd]

I had a 1.0 with handle issues bad enough that Zwilling sent a replacement. Bet they got tired of losing money that way.

 

[SolidSnake03]

Have to agree on that, I’m 0/2 on the ones I bought right from Zwilling, both mine got replaced by them for free. They must have been losing a mint on replacements on these. For the record it was a 8in and a 10in that I intended as gifts.

That said ones I’ve gotten second hand here have all been fine.

 

[esoo]

I had one that I bought from about 5 years ago - the pins were proud by a 1-2mm. The one I bought last year from HomeButcher has a different wood (darker) and has not had a problem yet.

 

[parbaked]

Homebutcher had a large number of 8” and 10” carbons rehandled by Delbert Ealy.
I always wondered if Philip worked out a deal with Zwilling to fix and sell some of the handle rejects…
https://homebutcher.com/collections/kramer

 

[Barmoley]

Saw 3 carbon with wood all had handle shrinkage with pins sticking out. The SG2 damascus have micarta and 3 I saw were perfect.

 

[SolidSnake03]

Saw 3 carbon with wood all had handle shrinkage with pins sticking out. The SG2 damascus have micarta and 3 I saw were perfect.

Can concur on this too. All the SG2 Damascus ones I’ve seen have been perfect handle wise. Really if all they do on the 52100 is switch the handle to something that doesn’t shrink that’s good enough for me. Still a real solid knife for sure.

 

[btbyrd]

Mine went to Jon for a thinning and spa treatment. No proud pins, beautiful wood, and a laser thin blade. I just wish it was 9" instead of 8". Like CA_Cook said, I wish there was an intermediate 'Goldilocks' length offered -- the 10" is too long for everyday use for me and the 8" is a bit short. The full flat grind is also not ideal, but I'm willing to live with it on a thinned blade. Can't comment on the factory grind/thickness, but I've seen some chonky choil shots around the web (though I've heard these can be misleading because of the distal taper).

 

[Jeff]

I have 6”, 8”, and 10” 1.0 knives.

I like the blackwood … but I worry.

The 8” gets about 80% of the use. I have noticed a real difference in the wood with use. It is not as “slick”. Almost as if the grain is raised. It is much more tactile and I like that… but not if it is hurting the wood!

It is worth noting that when new, they do come with a vial of oil for the wood.

I guess we are supposed to use it!

I thought the wood was supposed to be dense and water resistant. It seems that is not as true as the advertising wanted us to believe.

I’m going to pay a lot more attention to maintaining the wood on these knives.

 

[CA_cook]

I am sure Micaela handles are much more error-free, but this is a $400 mass-produced knife, so they can afford to make a properly stabilized real wood handle. The lack of a good grind is really a bigger problem to me. I love the design, love the handle, but it is hard for me to actually use it after getting used to japanese gyutos with convex grinds, the food release is much better and the blade does not stick as much.

Again, it is a fantastic mass-produced knife, miles ahead of anything Shun or Global makes, I just thought that they could have been a lot more ambitious with the 2.0 release, especially given that Kramer does not make custom 52100 blades in that design anymore. I would pay double for the 9-inch Kramer copy with a properly shaped and thinned blade, stabilized Blackwood handle, and marine brass bolster and pins.

Off-topic: Does anyone know of people who can re-grind a 10 inch Kramer Carbon into a 9-inch knife with the same profile? I guess that kills the heat treatment, and to restore that you will need to take the handle off, so may not be worth it.

 

[whirlwynds]

Mine went to Jon for a thinning and spa treatment. No proud pins, beautiful wood, and a laser thin blade. I just wish it was 9" instead of 8". Like CA_Cook said, I wish there was an intermediate 'Goldilocks' length offered -- the 10" is too long for everyday use for me and the 8" is a bit short. The full flat grind is also not ideal, but I'm willing to live with it on a thinned blade. Can't comment on the factory grind/thickness, but I've seen some chonky choil shots around the web (though I've heard these can be misleading because of the distal taper).

buy a 10" and grind it down?

 

[tostadas]

I have 6”, 8”, and 10” 1.0 knives.

I like the blackwood … but I worry.

The 8” gets about 80% of the use. I have noticed a real difference in the wood with use. It is not as “slick”. Almost as if the grain is raised. It is much more tactile and I like that… but not if it is hurting the wood!

It is worth noting that when new, they do come with a vial of oil for the wood.

I guess we are supposed to use it!

I thought the wood was supposed to be dense and water resistant. It seems that is not as true as the advertising wanted us to believe.

I’m going to pay a lot more attention to maintaining the wood on these knives.

I thought the camelia oil was meant for the carbon steel blade. At least that was my impression.

 

[esoo]

I thought the camelia oil was meant for the carbon steel blade. At least that was my impression.

I just looked at the book that came with mine and it does say to use the camelia for the handle.

 

[btbyrd]

Sure, you could pay to have someone grind a 10" down to 9" with a water cooled setup so as not to mess up the heat treatment. But that kind of extensive reprofiling and thinning is going to be expensive, and I don't particularly like to buy knives that require gobs of expensive work out of the box to get to the place where I'd like them to be. I"m just saying that if one showed up on BST for $300, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

 

[tostadas]

I just looked at the book that came with mine and it does say to use the camelia for the handle.

OK I stand corrected lol. I guess I need to read the instruction manuals for my knives more often.

 

[user 16756]

it's fine IMO.

going to Micarta is probably also why the price hasnt increased. I dont personally feel that you lose much in the way of elegance with a good micarta handle, in fact Im very, very fond of the material.

that said, I didnt have any handle problems with mine, I just didnt like it all that much.

 

[WildBoar]

Instructions for a knife?

Step 1: Stab or cut yourself

Step 2: Apply super glue and/ or band-aid

Step 3: Toss contaminated food and clean up squirted/ dripped blood

Step 4: Get back to work

 

[mk4pi]

Only see it via picture, but beside the handle's material i think the biggest different is the heel area. The 1.0 got that curvy heel which is really nice to hold, while the 2.0 just got flat out straight heel. Even though it's not a big issue but i think that make the 2.0 look really cheap compare to the 1.0 or even the SG2 line.

 

[Barmoley]

Only see it via picture, but beside the handle's material i think the biggest different is the heel area. The 1.0 got that curvy heel which is really nice to hold, while the 2.0 just got flat out straight heel. Even though it's not a big issue but i think that make the 2.0 look really cheap compare to the 1.0 or even the SG2 line.

Could you point to these pictures.

According to this the heel looks the same.



Since handle is now micarta and there is more distal taper, i am wondering if the balance will change making the knife more handle heavy.

 

[mk4pi]

Could you point to these pictures.
Since handle is now micarta and there is more distal taper, i am wondering if the balance will change making the knife more handle heavy.

I saw it in Zwilling's website. It's look even worse in the cutleryandmore one.

 

[Barmoley]

I saw it in Zwilling's website. It's look even worse in the cutleryandmore one.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood what you said, I thought you said it goes straight down at 90 degrees. Also strange that in the video the heel is the same as the original, maybe an older knife was used or something changed between prototype and production. The original is very comfortable, I wonder what the new feels like. It seems to still be rounded on the transition, but different shape for sure.

 

[tostadas]

If kramer made their handle lighter, the knife would probably earn a spot in my rotation. The handle was the biggest issue I had with the 1.0. Blade profile and grind were excellent

 

[Barmoley]

If kramer made their handle lighter, the knife would probably earn a spot in my rotation. The handle was the biggest issue I had with the 1.0. Blade profile and grind were excellent

10" is much better balanced and the profile is better for me. Still a big knife though and I wonder what the balance is like now. In general micarta is usually heavier than unstabilized wood. Hard to know without trying.

 

[tostadas]

10" is much better balanced and the profile is better for me. Still a big knife though and I wonder what the balance is like now. In general micarta is usually heavier than unstabilized wood. Hard to know without trying.

True, but african blackwood is no lightweight.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

I'm also wondering if the balance will be more forward. I actually like the new heel curve better. Looks more modern to me. More distal taper is also a good change, although the taper on the previous model was not bad IME.

Edit: I asked C&M the question about balance point. We should find out soon.

 

[Danzo]

I think the micarta is an upgrade personally. The fitting of the blackwood was pretty shoddy. I'm hoping they address the grind with 2.0, but it seems from the video they aren't going to. I actually thought the distal taper was pretty good the first time around, just the fact that it's flat ground is a real dagger.

 

[tostadas]

I wonder how much more they can exaggerate that distal taper. The original already tapered down to nothing.

I actually thought the distal taper was pretty good the first time around, just the fact that it's flat ground is a real dagger.

Yea the grind is more like a slicing cleaver than a gyuto. Pretty sticky for product. Patina helped a little bit.

 

[migwal]

Kinda always wanted the 8 inch.
What’s it like to sharpen? If it’s not so TBE and flat ground, I would think one could add some nice thinning/convexing and up the experience if so inclined?