Kramer Zwilling 10" Chef's Knive arrived

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by deanb, Jun 1, 2011.

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  1. Dec 31, 2014 #301

    panda

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    return that immediately
     
  2. Dec 31, 2014 #302

    James

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    this looks bent to me. I'd return as well
     
  3. Dec 31, 2014 #303

    panda

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    i mean the really thick one, that thing was not finished grinding.
     
  4. Dec 31, 2014 #304

    chefcomesback

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    It is not ground at all , I would return it as well
     
  5. Dec 31, 2014 #305

    Livlif

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    Sad to say but it looks like you got a dud. You should definitely return it. Where did you order it from?
     
  6. Dec 31, 2014 #306

    johnstoc

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    Thanks for the input, this one's headed back to SLT.

    Also the choil shot may have been a little deceptive, the knife is only that thick at the heel. It's almost like they ground most of the knife and stopped before the last 1/2". That said, the rest of the knife needs a bit more grinding in my opinion.

    I was really looking forward to trying out this knife both for its design and as I have never worked with 52100. Hopefully the next one looks better.
     
  7. Jan 1, 2015 #307

    Livlif

    Livlif

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    Return it to SLT. Get your money back and buy one from bed bath and beyond. They will price match SLT and you get a lifetime warranty on the knife. If anything happens you can return it and get another.
     
  8. Jul 16, 2016 #308

    stoneray

    stoneray

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    The last post is from almost two years ago.

    So, is this knife still getting a lot of love from the people who own it? Using it a lot? How does it compare to your other (Japanese) beauties?

    I have to say I really like the handle. I usually don't like western handles so much and prefer Wa but this one is a real exception.

    I am considering having a friend bring me one back from the States and personally getting it at SLT so he can make sure there is no bent tip and hollow grind.
    There still are a few SLTs which carry it at the shop.
     
  9. Jul 16, 2016 #309

    MAS4T0

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    There have been some threads more recently touching on these.

    I had one as my first good knife and I really did enjoy it. The handle on mine shrunk noticeably (you couldn't feel it but you could see it) and the profile wasn't right for me once I got to know what I liked; the Kramer profile is basically German with a tall blade, belly and a raised tip and I've taken a liking to more French profiles which have a lower height, a flatter profile and a lower tip.

    It's certainly a good capable knife if you're in the market for a knife of this style. Do you have any specific questions?

    To surmise, there was nothing wrong with the knife, but it wasn't to my tastes so it was sent on to a better home.
     
  10. Jul 16, 2016 #310

    stoneray

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    Thanks!

    Well, I was just wondering if some of the people who had proclaimed their love in this thread towards this knife are still infatuated with it. If they still regularily use it and how it compares to their other high end knifes. I understand that some (like you) don't really like the profile but it seemed that there are others who like it very much.
     
  11. Jul 16, 2016 #311

    MAS4T0

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    It depends on how you'll be using the knife.

    If you like to rock chop, and work on a low counter (or are tall) then it's good. The belly makes it a natural rock chopper, but the high angle you have to lift the handle to in order to effectively use the tip was uncomfortable for me. If you do a lot of tip work and aren't quite tall, you would probably have the same experience.

    If you are going to cut like this then the Kramer is good for you:



    If you would prefer to cut like this (as is the case with most members here) then a more standard gyuto would work better for you:

     
  12. Jul 16, 2016 #312

    richard

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    You can still effectively push cut with a Zwilling Kramer. I agree that the tip is higher than most knives people here are used to, and that requires some adjustment when doing tip work, and some may not like it, but I don't agree that it has as much belly that Shun and German knives do that make it only good for rock chopping.
     
  13. Jul 16, 2016 #313

    stoneray

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    Thanks!

    I was just wondering, if you read though this thread, there are a lot of people who are very excited about this knife and if, after all this time, they are still happy with this knife. Some long time experiences...
     
  14. Jul 16, 2016 #314

    MAS4T0

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    Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that it's only good for rocking, I used to primarily chop with mine, but if you're not going to be rocking there are other knives which are most likely better suited for your needs.

    There have been quite a few threads recently about these which may give a better perspective, so a search would probably help, the on-site search isn't the best, so try this:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=k...q=zwilling kramer site:kitchenknifeforums.com
     
  15. Jul 16, 2016 #315

    stoneray

    stoneray

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    Thank you for all your help!

    I've actually already been through all the relevant threads (I usually search before I ask) but not quite what I was looking for. I'm looking for long time users who can speak about their experience, perhaps those who still favour this knife and their feelings about it, and those who compare it to their other good knives (as I've already mentioned).

    Also interested in problems people have with it. I think wood shrinkage or a slightly bent blade were quite common, also hollow grind or any other problems...
     
  16. Jul 16, 2016 #316

    aboynamedsuita

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    I think it's difficult to compare to other knives as it is not really apples to apples. It is rather unique with the profile and all… some will either love it or hate it. I have one and like it. I also have other knives I like a lot.

    The 10" 52100 was my first "good" knife, but I had some issues with the handle wood shrinking and rivets exposing, and the grind was kinda weird near the tip but was not serious. Zwilling let me return it, so I did thinking I could get the limited edition carbon Damascus model for <$1k CAD (different than the SG2 chevron Damascus production model). This didn't work out so I repurchased the 10" 52100 as I missed having it, plus I'll probably never own a real Kramer lol.

    The new one didn't have to grind or handle issue, but after several months here in Canada (very dry in winter) the handle suffered the same problem. The blade is straight and the only thing I've noticed after polishing out the vertical grind marks is that towards the heel the grind is kinda weird… Basically on one side it seems like they have a hollow or slight overgrind, as if they didn't taper it all the way to the handle. Hard to describe, but it's as if they ground tip to heel at a certain angle, then stopped a few mm from the choil because there is a budge of metal which is only apparent from being a pain to try and polish the other side of the hollow. On the their side the budge was more of a depression relative than the remainder of the blade (also noted when polishing… I did this side first), so I think the may have made a minor mistake.

    Difficult to see, but here is the side with the bulge at the choil/heel (the outer side was kinda the opposite, was easier to polish several mm away from the heel/choil):
    [​IMG]
    The black dot in he hollow is sharpie ink… I measured with callipers from the cutting edge to the dot, and also from the choil/heel side… there is less than 0.5mm difference and that would also include distal taper. I don't think it will amount to a serious problem as there is a lot of metal which will go with thinning over time and then even out.

    Otherwise the blade appears straight as an arrow when viewed with the tip towards you and also the cutting edge lining up with the spine. You can't expect perfection with a knife at this price point (which relatively speaking isn't high compared to some other options). If I were to return it they probably wouldn't even understand what the issue is and there's no guarantee I'd get a flawless one again. The issue only became apparent with polishing out the vertical grind marks.

    All this aside I like it. Once I'm done polishing I'm going to get the handle redone and make it something special.
     
  17. Jul 17, 2016 #317

    stoneray

    stoneray

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    Thank you, very interesting post!

    Do you think by oiling it, you could have prevented the handle shrinking?

    May I also ask for what kind of tasks do you mostly use this knife and what kind of cutting (rocking, push, pull etc)?

    When you get the handle redone, you will keep the original shape of the handle?

    May I also ask how you polished out those vertical grind marks?
     
  18. Jul 17, 2016 #318

    aboynamedsuita

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    No problem, glad you found it helpful. I did oil it with mineral oil/bees wax from the get go but to no avail. I was told by a handle maker that the Blackwood probably wasn't dried/seasoned well which resulted in the problems. After doing some reading… Arizona ironwood, African Blackwood, and ringed gidgee don't really stabilize well (apparently doesn't penetrate beyond the surface, which gets sanded when shaping); probably others but these three came up often.

    I use mine for most tasks such as meats and vegetables, usually push, sometimes pull (seems better with delicate proteins such as chicken breast) and also can do horizontal slices thru onions as the tip is nice and thin.

    The plan is the keep the same style (essentially only the wood scales are removed and the metal tang forms the basis of the shape). See this thread by Dave Martell (I will be working with Dave too) for a sample of a ZK rehandle:
    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27046-Kramer-Zwilling-Rehandle

    I am using a series of progressively finer sand papers and 3M PSA Mylar sheets then possibly some micro abrasives. Lots of work but so far doing the initial sanding with 100 grit perpendicular to the vertical grinds is he most work
     
  19. Jul 17, 2016 #319

    stoneray

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    Thank you! It looks beautiful with the new handle.

    Could you perhaps show a picture of the wood shrinkage?

    And are there known cases where these knives have no wood shrinkage?
     
  20. Jul 17, 2016 #320

    aboynamedsuita

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    Here's a pic of my previous one, similar issue with the new one. Some have just sanded the rivets apparently, but I've heard they're rather thin on the top.
    [​IMG]
    Apparently sometimes the wood can shrink around the tang too, I saw a display one at the kitchenware store like that.

    I've heard that some of them are fine. It's probably due to a more temperate climate, and perhaps with the latter production runs they tried to rush due to the popularity and used the wood prematurely (the ones with issues)?
     
  21. Jul 17, 2016 #321

    stoneray

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    Thanks! Is it more of a visual thing or does it affect the usage as well?
     
  22. Jul 17, 2016 #322

    aboynamedsuita

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    You can feel it, kinda helps with grip I suppose but still would rather not have to deal with it.
     
  23. Jul 17, 2016 #323

    stoneray

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    Thank you so much for your detailed posts!

    It seems that overall this knife doesn't seem to get a lot of love on this forum anymore.
     
  24. Jul 17, 2016 #324

    SolidSnake03

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    Which in my opinion is quite silly. It's a well made knife in a good steel with good heat treat that is at a fair price with great distal taper and performance. For what you would pay for say a 8' Carbon Kramer you won't get any sort of Japanese Knife that has near that level of fit or finish or has the kind of warranty and support you get if you buy from somewhere like Cutlery and More or Sur La Table.

    Further, I've spent way more than $300 on some custom knives from American and European makers and some well known Japanese ones that weren't nearly as good as this knife was out of the box (once you put a nice edge on it because the out of the box edge was just ok). The handle is excellent too so as long as you are good with a Western handle and a taller knife it is absolutely a good buy when you compare the price to other stuff out there and what you would get quality wise for it.
     
  25. Jul 17, 2016 #325

    aboynamedsuita

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    Well said snake, I don't think it's right to generalize the lack of recent feedback means people don't like the knife anymore
     
  26. Jul 17, 2016 #326

    stoneray

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    Thanks snake, great to hear! Although I have some pretty good Japanese knives, I find this knife very appealing. But since I'm buying from overseas , I will not be able to try out or return it and wanted to get some feedback from long term users...
     
  27. Jul 17, 2016 #327

    SolidSnake03

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    Welcome :)

    I would absolutely buy one knowing that it is most definitely a good knife and stacks up very well to other stuff. Also, re-sale shouldn't be a problem at all if you didn't like it. They tend to sell on here and on eBay for fairly high prices aka you wouldn't lose much at all.
     
  28. Jul 18, 2016 #328

    Lefty

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    Great knife
     
  29. Jul 18, 2016 #329

    deanb

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    I've had this knife for five years now. It's a great knife. I originally set the bevels at about ten degrees and it's a great cutter. I use a loaded strop from time to time and have only had to take it to the stones two or three times in five years.
     
  30. Jul 18, 2016 #330

    richard

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    Well as you might see now, it was probably premature that you assumed that. Another thing to note is that the forum seems quite a bit quieter on the weekend, and a couple days isn't a long time to get opinions on a knife that has a bit of a niche ownership. I think Zwilling Kramers are good knives, have a 10" ZK Essential and an 8" ZK Meiji myself.
     

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