Kramer Zwilling 10" Chef's Knive arrived

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10" Kramer Zwilling vs. 8" Shun Kramer. Shun weighs 10 grams more than the Zwilling.
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Shun handle is longer, fatter, and taller. Zwilling one generally feels better and is shaped better.
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Zwilling choil. Zwilling spine and choil are rounded more than the Shun, and polished.
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Usually I get can get pretty good spine shots without too much difficulty. Camera had a hard time focusing on the tip though.
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Like I said before, very very good taper. It is constantly tapering, it doesnt just taper .5mm over the first 2/3rd of the blade, and then taper dramatically to the tip. Near constant taper the entire length, nearly down to nothing. The tip is actually ~1mm from the bottom of this photo.
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Shun looks like a real fatty compared to the Zwilling.
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This is a completely different knife than the Shun. If you hated the Shun, and for good reason, check this one out. Completely different animal, a lot of the things we love and look for in our knives. Zwilling is king now, in the big manufacturer game. Between this and their Miyabi stuff, they are so far ahead of Wustof, Shun, Global, etc.
 
yea thats a kramer tapered tip for sure. I have never seen someone take a knife so thin towards the tip.
 
sorry for the double post but that does look very nice. Everything is polished, nice taper, they seemed to have done a very nice job with the recreations.
 
Looks like this could be a fantastic all rounder. A bit thicker at the choil for tougher work and with a skinny tip for the fine detail stuff, great taper.

How thin is it behind the edge? If it's edge is as thin as the tip, i would be super impressed.

This knife has been a huge and unexpected suprise. I thought it would be a real stinker.
 
Aphex said:
Looks like this could be a fantastic all rounder. A bit thicker at the choil for tougher work and with a skinny tip for the fine detail stuff, great taper.

How thin is it behind the edge? If it's edge is as thin as the tip, i would be super impressed.

This knife has been a huge and unexpected suprise. I thought it would be a real stinker.
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+1
 
I exchanged my shun kramer for one. It should be at the house by the time I get back from india. Should I put a mirror or mustard finish on it? I wish I could create a poll.
 
I did my "how far behind the edge is it 1mm thick" test to this. Didn't have time to trace it out, but at the heel it is about 1mm thick 10mm behind the edge. Along with the distal taper, that "1mm line" gets higher and higher as you go down the blade, until it meets the spine 43mm from the tip!

That was kinda hard to describe, so if it makes no sense, I will try to post some pictures tonight.
 
rockbox said:
I exchanged my shun kramer for one. It should be at the house by the time I get back from india. Should I put a mirror or mustard finish on it? I wish I could create a poll.
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Gotta love the SLT return policy, right?
 
This is the first time I've used it and I felt a little guilty doing it, but I will feel better when I get the new knife.
 
Don't feel guilty. This is the knife you were expecting when you bought the Shun.
 
rockbox said:
This is the first time I've used it and I felt a little guilty doing it, but I will feel better when I get the new knife.
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Don't feel guilty, the return policy is open for a reason :) People used to return knives that were broke in half, and plates that were shattered. We even had a customer return a Jura Z5 every year to get a brand new one! The knife goes back to the manufacturer most of the time and you usually end up paying a premium price at the stores to cover the possibility of these things happening
 
JohnnyChance said:
I did my "how far behind the edge is it 1mm thick" test to this. Didn't have time to trace it out, but at the heel it is about 1mm thick 10mm behind the edge. Along with the distal taper, that "1mm line" gets higher and higher as you go down the blade, until it meets the spine 43mm from the tip!

That was kinda hard to describe, so if it makes no sense, I will try to post some pictures tonight.
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That's awesome. It oughta cut crazy good.

Rock: my vote is mirror. once you put a deep patina on it, you won't want to bring it back (maybe).
 
I've had this knife for 19 days now and I honestly can't tell the difference in performance from my real Kramer. We all know that Bob forges his knives. Does Zwilling forge their Kramers? Does it really make a difference or is it all in the heat treatment?
 
Given the sophisticated controls at the factories that make the steel, as soon a someone starts hammering and heating the metal its properties have to start to decline. Either that or the steel makers are incompetent buffoons.
 
SpikeC said:
Given the sophisticated controls at the factories that make the steel, as soon a someone starts hammering and heating the metal its properties have to start to decline. Either that or the steel makers are incompetent buffoons.
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Then how does Bob Kramer come up with what he does?
 
Are you saying that the Kramer knife has better steel than the Zwilling versions?
 
SpikeC said:
Are you saying that the Kramer knife has better steel than the Zwilling versions?
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The real Kramer is likely to have a much better heat treatment but 52100 equivalent steel (steel goes under a different name in Japan). I thin I have read on on of Bob's auctions that heat treating his bladed takes 7 or 8 hours each.

M
 
How are these knives comming along with patina and sharpening.

dean-does the replica sharpen the same as the original?

Just curious...
 
So who's going to be the first one to send one to Dave to "finish" for them? It would be cool to see if Dave can grind a better Kramer then Bob?
 
Chef Niloc said:
So who's going to be the first one to send one to Dave to "finish" for them? It would be cool to see if Dave can grind a better Kramer then Bob?
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I was planning on doing this, but so far I haven't felt the need. It certainly isn't a fatty in need of a tune up like an addict. The tip is so thin, any more grinding and it will quickly become a 9" chefs knife.
 
I find it does not have the food release of the real deal, profile may be the same but nothing beats that Kramer convex grind.
 
kalaeb said:
How are these knives comming along with patina and sharpening.

dean-does the replica sharpen the same as the original?

Just curious...
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I forced a patina with vinegar so I don't know how a natural patina would be doing. I can't tell the difference in sharpening, They're both very easy to sharpen. That's why I asked the question about forging and heat treatment.
 
Marko Tsourkan said:
The real Kramer is likely to have a much better heat treatment but 52100 equivalent steel (steel goes under a different name in Japan). I thin I have read on on of Bob's auctions that heat treating his bladed takes 7 or 8 hours each.

M
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I would give Henckels the benefit of doubt. They claim to use real 52100. And if the knife performs on similar level than the original, why should the heat treatment be much worse?
 
Given that Henkels is using the same highly standardised PM steel and their very good facilities to harden and temper the steel to the exact specifications of the steel manufacturer, I cannot see why the blade of the production knife should be lower quality than the hand made version. Two or ten or twenty hours of tempering... i don't know. I would rather trust the specs from the company that designed and made the steel for a specific task together with the hardening and tempering instructions to get the very best out of their own product. F&F on the knife looks pretty decent in comparison with the real thing as well. The profile sure is an aquired taste, but I find myself slowly growing into wanting one.

DarKHoeK
 
I can only speculate since there is no way of knowing unless one of you guys asks Bob when you go to his workshop, but I doubt Zwilling does the same exact heat treat that Bob does. Zwilling probably does not triple quench their blades and they probably use air to quench versus oil. I don't know how much this would effect the performance of the blade but since DeanB can't tell the difference, I would say its pretty close. If its within 5 percent of the performance, then I doubt anyone other than the most discriminating users like Salty, TK or Niloc could tell the difference.
 
Patina. Duck breast, cucumber, hollandaise, soppressata.

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Mine even has some beloved wabi-sabi. Got nicked on a belt me thinks.

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The pictures are a bit deceiving. The patina is fairly light, and the knife needs to be turned under light to catch the blues and other colors. I think over time this will build to a very even, subtle patina that has great character when inspected closely.
 
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