Larger options for 3k and above stones?

[Chasingsharpness]

I'm looking for a higher grit stone to follow on from my Gesshin 400 XL and Suehiro Debado 1k.

I am interested in larger stones with as much width and length as possible. Thickness is not important to me only surface area.

Can anyone recommend any good options? I know suehiro debado do a 4k, and jnats can come in quite large sizes.

 

[Nemo]

Try a larger Belgian Blue Whetstone.

Much more affordable than most finer Jnats. I guess it gives an edge roughly equivalent to JIS 6ish K.

Available in a range of sizes.

Mine is just under 20mm thick. Got it direct from Ardennes Coticule. Can't remember the exact dimensions but it's longer and wider than standard synthetic stones and there were larger stones available at the time.

Pust a great edge on a kitchen knife. Seems to help somewhat with burr control. Not a bad polisher to boot.

 

[gentiscid]

Rika 5k, enough surface

 

[Rangen]

The BBW option is great. I have a very large one myself, and it's a great fine-but-toothy knife finisher.

If you were in the US, I'd suggest an Arkansas stone from Dan's. The soft makes a similarly knife finisher, and can be had in large sizes at reasonable prices. Shipping to the UK might wreck that whole scheme though. You can get excellent large hard arks, too, but the pricing is high even before UK shipping.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

The BBW seems really interesting. Available in 300mmx100mm which is massive.


https://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en/shop/bbw-rectangular-stones/coticule-bleu-rectangular

 

[Benuser]

https://www.meesterslijpers.nl/en/a...che-steen-4000-grit-25-x-8-cm?search=coticule25 X 8cm. With synthetics the standard is 21 X 7.
With thanks to @Jovidah

 

[Jovidah]

Nooooo now it's gonna get sold out before I've made up my mind! You're forcing my hand!
But yeah... that Big Beautiful Whetstone is probably the best deal you're going to find if you want a larger stone. There used to be some larger round choseras but I'm not sure they exist anymore, the only retailer that sold them here stopped carrying them a while ago.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I ordered a round 320 chosera, but it's not actually that big. 220cm diamater I believe. It also broke in transit so is unusable, and I can't find any more.

Can anyone speak to the feel and feedback of the BBW Belgian blues?

 

[Benuser]

Can anyone speak to the feel and feedback of the BBW Belgian blues?

I you're expecting the kind of tactile feedback a good synthetic offers, say a Naniwa Pro: it's a piece of slate, after all. It does take some time to get used to it. The first impression will be one of a total lack of feedback. Still there is, especially but not only auditory, and tell you about the state of your edge and whether the blade has a full contact. I use BB for touching up in hand all kind of steels, from soft 440C to AS @64Rc, and feel and hear if the very edge got reached or the burr has gone. I can blindly rely on it.

 

[Nemo]

BBW Feedback is somewhat different to a Chosera. On some steels, it is almost "screechy", both in sound and tactile sensation. I think of it as the edge rolling over tiny ball bearings (garnets).

It doesn't take too long to get used to, though.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I know it's a subjective thing, but do you find it pleasurable to use?

Is the stone quite hard or is it relatively soft?
Would it be suitable to use on softer stainless?

 

[Benuser]

I know it's a subjective thing, but do you find it pleasurable to use?

Is the stone quite hard or is it relatively soft?
Would it be suitable to use on softer stainless?

I find it pleasurable, yes. The stone is hard in a way that has nothing in common with a hard synthetic stone. Slate isn't a particularly hard stone, though. I've used it on all kind of steels. Soft, hard, carbons, stainless.
Found one where it doesn't work: Krupp's 4116, the steel of the big German makers. It does polish it very nicely, but the edge will crumble with the first board contact. Has to do with the lack of edge stability which is inherent to the steel. That's why one shouldn't polish those edges, whether it's with synthetics or naturals.

 

[Nemo]

I know it's a subjective thing, but do you find it pleasurable to use?

Is the stone quite hard or is it relatively soft?
Would it be suitable to use on softer stainless?

I don't mind using it. The edges are great and you get used to the feedback pretty quickly.

Mine is very hard. Others have described having soft ones

I think it's a good finisher for soft stainless because it seems to abrade the burr to a greater extent than any other stone I have used. Definitely the best edge I have been able to achieve on soft German stainless is off a Chosera 400 that is finished on a BBW.

I also have a small BBW that I use to sharpen veggie peelers (I use a cheap SiC pocket knife stone before the BBW). So nice to have sharp veggie peelers.

 

[Benuser]

I don't mind using it. The edges are great and you get used to the feedback pretty quickly.

Mine is very hard. Others have described having soft ones

I think it's a good finisher for soft stainless because it seems to abrade the burr to a greater extent than any other stone I have used. Definitely the best edge I have been able to achieve on soft German stainless is off a Chosera 400 that is finished on a BBW.

I also have a small BBW that I use to sharpen veggie peelers (I use a cheap SiC pocket knife stone before the BBW). So nice to have sharp veggie peelers.

I will definitely give it a new try with 4116!
The garnets — the abrasive particles in BB — don't abrade as aggressively as we are used to with synthetics. This is very helpful when deburring. Too often, with synthetics, a burr gets abraded but a new one is being raised.

 

[Nemo]

Found one where it doesn't work: Krupp's 4116, the steel of the big German makers. It does polish it very nicely, but the edge will crumble with the first board contact. Has to do with the lack of edge stability which is inherent to the steel. That's why one shouldn't polish those edges, whether it's with synthetics or naturals.

This is a really interesting observation.

For these steels, I usually sharpen on Chosera 400, then deburr on Chosera 1k (a trick, it should be said, that I learned from Benuser), and polishing any higher with a synthetic stone produces a worse edge (for reasons outlined above).

I definitely get a much nicer edge deburring on BBW with very light pressure only (in my mind's eye, this is because the garnets are eating the tenacious burr. Of course, this could be complete nonsense).

BUT.

I don't use these knives (I use the Japanese ones), so it's entirely possible that the edge degrades rapidly as Benuser describes.

Gonna have to test this now.

 

[SwampDonkey]

My BBW is quite hard and sounds bad but feels pretty good? I think Benuser nailed it on auditory cues+feedback learning curve. It feels much nicer with a slurry, and puts really delightful edges on a variety of steels. I get a lot of tooth from my particular one.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I don't mind using it. The edges are great and you get used to the feedback pretty quickly.

Mine is very hard. Others have described having soft ones

I think it's a good finisher for soft stainless because it seems to abrade the burr to a greater extent than any other stone I have used. Definitely the best edge I have been able to achieve on soft German stainless is off a Chosera 400 that is finished on a BBW.

I also have a small BBW that I use to sharpen veggie peelers (I use a cheap SiC pocket knife stone before the BBW). So nice to have sharp veggie peelers.

Thank you for your input. So there is considerable variation between different BBWs? I was thinking of ordering a smaller one to test before committing to the 300x100mm from them direct. Is each individual stone different in how it feels and performs?

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I don't mind using it. The edges are great and you get used to the feedback pretty quickly.

Mine is very hard. Others have described having soft ones

I think it's a good finisher for soft stainless because it seems to abrade the burr to a greater extent than any other stone I have used. Definitely the best edge I have been able to achieve on soft German stainless is off a Chosera 400 that is finished on a BBW.

I also have a small BBW that I use to sharpen veggie peelers (I use a cheap SiC pocket knife stone before the BBW). So nice to have sharp veggie peelers.

Do you find that deburring on the BBW you lose the toothy edge off the 500?

 

[Nemo]

Thank you for your input. So there is considerable variation between different BBWs? I was thinking of ordering a smaller one to test before committing to the 300x100mm from them direct. Is each individual stone different in how it feels and performs?

Not sure.

I've only used my 2 BBWs. Both are hard. Both came direct from AC.

As regards the variation in hardness, this is just going off reports from other KKF members, not my 1st hand experience.

 

[Nemo]

Do you find that deburring on the BBW you lose the toothy edge off the 500?

The edge has a different character. It feels (and performs) as though it has less residual burr, although I haven’t used a microscope, so I guess it's possible that it's just a more refined edge.

 

[Benuser]

Do you find that deburring on the BBW you lose the toothy edge off the 500?

What kind of steel is involved? And which 500? Maybe I can find out.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

Thank you for your insight. I was also wondering if creating slurry with a diamond plate changes the feel/feedback or edge characteristics considerably?

 

[Chasingsharpness]

What kind of steel is involved?

I was thinking for soft stainless steels. They don't specify it but I was wondering mostly for CCK cleavers in soft stainless or mystery Chinese carbon

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

BBW's are excellent finishers. I'm not sure how much feedback you really need with a finisher. They're all fairly hard to some degree and being finishers, you don't spend a lot of time on them anyway.

As for soft stainless, I'm not sure I'd bother. I tend to find the benefits of a finer finisher are lost on soft stainless and prefer a lower grit edge. A 1k edge should actually be a good edge on those steels.

 

[Benuser]

I was also wondering if creating slurry with a diamond plate changes the feel/feedback or edge characteristics considerably?

If you're looking for a polished edge I would prefer a bit of slurry because it's faster. Otherwise, hardly a difference.

 

[Benuser]

Do you find that deburring on the BBW you lose the toothy edge off the 500?

Have tried with two stainless, a softer coarse one (Misono 440) and a finer and somewhat harder one, 14C28N by K-Sabatier. After deburring on the Shapton Glass 500 there isn't much to deburr, but still. Performed a few very light edge leading strokes. Very little came off, but both edges ended smoother without having lost any bite. With a loupe I can see that only the very edge got lightly touched. With a normal sharpening I would put a 1-2k in between, and certainly not for deburring alone. Performance would further increase with the bevels and behind it being smoothed.