Larrin Thomas steels?

[shobudonnie]

I know he came up with magnacut and apex ultra. What other steels did he come up with?

 

[Barmoley]

NioMax

 

[DevinT]

There’s one more coming at the end of the month, but I’m not able to say yet.

Hoss

 

[shobudonnie]

There’s one more coming at the end of the month, but I’m not able to say yet.

Hoss

Omg. Is apex ultra about to get topped already?

 

[DevinT]

Omg. Is apex ultra about to get topped already?

No, it’s a very different steel from ApexUltra. ApexUltra is the king of low alloy steels.

The testing and data sheet is done for the new steel, just waiting on the patent process.

Hoss

 

[M1k3]

There’s one more coming at the end of the month, but I’m not able to say yet.

Hoss

Can you tease us at least? Is it more similar to ApexUltra or MagnaCut?

 

[blokey]

No, it’s a very different steel from ApexUltra. ApexUltra is the king of low alloy steels.

The testing and data sheet is done for the new steel, just waiting on the patent process.

Hoss

Could it be related to these?

Niomax, MagnaCut, ApexUltra are all doing well, although Niomax is not being produced commercially yet. The next steel coming is MagnaWear, it’s been poured, needs to be hipped and rolled. It’s designed for high wear resistance, it’ll be a replacement for steels like S90V. MagnaTuff should be a couple years out for now.

I haven’t yet pushed the hardness on Magnacut, seems to be doing well in the 62-63 range for my knives. We’ll see. I’m using ApexUltra for high hardness stuff.

Hoss

 

[jedy617]

Omg. Is apex ultra about to get topped already?

There are already lots of steel that "top" it, I don't get it. It's just the best for forging blacksmiths and low alloy stuff. There isn't a single best choice for everyone or every application

I remember hearing about magnawear, hope that is next!

 

[shobudonnie]

There are already lots of steel that "top" it, I don't get it. It's just the best for forging blacksmiths and low alloy stuff. There isn't a single best choice for everyone or every application

I remember hearing about magnawear, hope that is next!

Which steels are better?

 

[M1k3]

Which steels are better?

Better in which way?
Chip resistance?
Edge holding?
Wear resistance?
Stainlessness?

 

[shobudonnie]

Better in which way?
Chip resistance?
Edge holding?
Wear resistance?
Stainlessness?

Takes better sharpness, while holding an edge longer, while being tough and chip resistant, while being easy to sharpen.

Stainless doesn’t matter to me.

 

[VincenteFox]

Takes better sharpness, while holding an edge longer, while being tough and chip resistant, while being easy to sharpen.

Stainless doesn’t matter to me.

No steel is the best at everything. This is what jedy was just saying.

 

[shobudonnie]

No steel is the best at everything. This is what jedy was just saying.

Well it sure seems like apex ultra is. It has sharpness that rivals white 1, able to get heat treated to 67-68 no problem, while still being plenty tough, and still pretty easy to sharpen.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Takes better sharpness, while holding an edge longer, while being tough and chip resistant, while being easy to sharpen.

Stainless doesn’t matter to me.

Honestly I know this is cliché but maker maters more and I would say heat treat as well. For example I find Shi-Han 52100 meh, I find Msicard 52100 fabulous.
Same steel, and I love Shi-Han's knives but his lower hrc for high toughness just doesnt do it for me. I have had 2 knives in Apex Ultra, one was an amazing knife but the steel was just ok for edge retention. My other one is really high hardness and holds an edge forever.

 

[shobudonnie]

Honestly I know this is cliché but maker maters more and I would say heat treat as well. For example I find Shi-Han 52100 meh, I find Msicard 52100 fabulous.
Same steel, and I love Shi-Han's knives but his lower hrc for high toughness just doesnt do it for me. I have had 2 knives in Apex Ultra, one was an amazing knife but the steel was just ok for edge retention. My other one is really high hardness and holds an edge forever.

Who made your really good apex ultra knife?

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Who made your really good apex ultra knife?

@AB blades did an amazing heat treat, easy to sharpen but super edge retention. Oh and the best S-grind I have tried hands down

 

[M1k3]

Takes better sharpness, while holding an edge longer, while being tough and chip resistant, while being easy to sharpen.

Stainless doesn’t matter to me.

Which stones are you using?

Without knowing which stones and your sharpening ability, I'd say MagnaCut, AEB-L, ApexUltra or 52100. Depends on which one of your characteristics you want to emphasize.


Very oversimplified explanation:

The total steel characteristics package would be 100%

Now, you want 5 characteristics to compete for that 100%. If they were all equal, they'd be at 20% each of the total.

If you increase 1, you're going to have to take away from somewhere else.

Just to complicate matters, the higher you go in wear resistance, the lower ease of sharpening and resistance to chipping will be. There's no way to really combat that.


So to circle back, everything about steel and it's composition is a tradeoff.

 

[shobudonnie]

Which stones are you using?

Without knowing which stones and your sharpening ability, I'd say MagnaCut, AEB-L, ApexUltra or 52100. Depends on which one of your characteristics you want to emphasize.


Very oversimplified explanation:

The total steel characteristics package would be 100%

Now, you want 5 characteristics to compete for that 100%. If they were all equal, they'd be at 20% each of the total.

If you increase 1, you're going to have to take away from somewhere else.

Just to complicate matters, the higher you go in wear resistance, the lower ease of sharpening and resistance to chipping will be. There's no way to really combat that.


So to circle back, everything about steel and it's composition is a tradeoff.

I use Debado 200, arashiyama 1000, and Maruoyama shiro suita.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

I'd heard rumours about a tougher version of MagnaCut as well as a higher wearing version ohhh, maybe two years ago or so. Not sure just how "related" they would be, but I'm always in the mood for new good steels.

 

[shobudonnie]

I'd heard rumours about a tougher version of MagnaCut as well as a higher wearing version ohhh, maybe two years ago or so. Not sure just how "related" they would be, but I'm always in the mood for new good steels.

I heard rumors about a full time Canadian knife maker who makes the absolute best knives in the world. Lasers that would put stuff from takada hamono to shame.

 

[jedy617]

Which steels are better?

all arounder? Magnacut, does everything better lol. Very High wear resistance? K390. K390 probably has 50% better edge retention, close on toughness, more stain resistance.

The only downsides I can think of, is diamond stones are needed, but big deal, cheap these days. I don't think any modern good steels are hard to sharpen, just take longer. I just sharpened Rex121 which is the highest edge retention steel you can get. Took 3 minutes on a venev stone.

But yeah. There is never a single "best" usually, just what is best for the individual. Apex is unique because it's the best edge retention/toughness combo available for forging blacksmiths who also heat treat in the forge. If you don't restrict yourselves to that, there is so much around.

 

[jedy617]

By the way this is from someone who haves and loves apex ultra. There is just a looooooot out there.

 

[M1k3]

I use Debado 200, arashiyama 1000, and Maruoyama shiro suita.

With those stones, I wouldn't go much more wear resistant than MagnaCut or Z-wear/CruWear.

 

[shobudonnie]

With those stones, I wouldn't go much more wear resistant than MagnaCut or Z-wear/CruWear.

Oh yeah? Can you recommend me some better stones then?

 

[jedy617]

Well it sure seems like apex ultra is. It has sharpness that rivals white 1, able to get heat treated to 67-68 no problem, while still being plenty tough, and still pretty easy to sharpen.

The whole sharpness thing doesn't make sense to me. I can get any steel to a very low bess score. Unless you are comparing like...pot steel or iron I don't think that's relevant. Japanese retailers harp on how you want something very pure like white steel for shashimi, but I have gotten magnacut and s90v just as sharp/sharper. What matters more there is technique.

 

[M1k3]

Oh yeah? Can you recommend me some better stones then?

Like previously recommended for the K390, diamond stones. Venev Phoenix stones are good "lower cost", yes they are about $100 each but are double sided so $50 per grit, option. Vitrified diamond if money is no object.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

The whole sharpness thing doesn't make sense to me. I can get any steel to a very low bess score. Unless you are comparing like...pot steel or iron I don't think that's relevant. Japanese retailers harp on how you want something very pure like white steel for shashimi, but I have gotten magnacut and s90v just as sharp/sharper. What matters more there is technique.

We cannot separate the different steels from the need for different tools to get the most out of them.

 

[jedy617]

We cannot separate the different steels from the need for different tools to get the most out of them.

Yeah a good example when talking about "best steel", for a boat/fishing knife you would probably want lc200n or H1 which is completely rust proof. In a pro kitchen I would probably want stainless, tough and easy to touch up so like aebl

 

[Justinv]

I prefer the venev stone over the 3K vitrified diamond I tried.

 

[blokey]

Takes better sharpness, while holding an edge longer, while being tough and chip resistant, while being easy to sharpen.

Stainless doesn’t matter to me.

Rarely talked about here but I really like CTS XHP, still not easier than carbon or simpler stainless, but better than most vanadium steels, takes great crisp edge