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Desert Rat

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I know about it. I think I even wrote something about this. Can't remember when.
Have you tried it both ways and compared? Would genuinely be interested in your opinion, or from any one else as well that has tried edge trailing strokes. What type of stone, what it did or didn't do ect.
 

kayman67

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Someone else said that his coticule was much better with edge trailing. I believe it was. It's definitely something worth trying.
I might be beyond saving at this point and beyond just staying for the results alone with something. I like to play around a lot. With everything and anything. And it's not always working or as expected, but definitely opened a few quite interesting doors for me.
 

stringer

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@Desert Rat

Thank you very much for sharing the videos. They are very therapeutic. I think with some kinds of stones or if you are looking for some kinds of edges then very gentle delicate edge trailing strokes to finish would probably work great. With edge trailing the biggest risk is that you create a wire/fin/burr edge. But if you are using a very very fine finishing stone and taking very short low pressure strokes then the risk of generating a burr is extremely small. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting with edge trailing on razors. But I definitely believe that you have to gradually diminish your pressure and stroke length until at the end you are taking much shorter lighter strokes. I like the "vibration" stroke that the Japanese guy uses in the first video. I will probably try and practice a little with that. I have a couple of vintage washitas that I have been cleaning up. I'm looking forward to testing them during my quarantine.

Here's a video of my finishing stroke strategy. I sharpened a Genco 6/8 with my dilucot strategy. The shave was passable buy unimpressive. So here I show how I touch up a razor that's slipping or not quite there on the jasper. The shave after this was much better.

 

Desert Rat

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Stringer, I think some of that honing style is to minimize sticking, it's a real issue especially with the flatter side of Kamisori's. I know some just hone until a razor sticks but I think my hones have a little more to offer after that. There was a change in feed back on my last coticule that I believe was suction even though it didn't stick hard that caused my edge to go backwards (over honing?).

Your video is really interesting. Pretty sure we are playing with two different kinds of jasper even though both share the Owyhee connection. I am really interested in that second jasper hone, did it come from the same ebay seller?

Here is the Owyhee picture jasper that I have been playing with.
 

stringer

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The big one came
Stringer, I think some of that honing style is to minimize sticking, it's a real issue especially with the flatter side of Kamisori's. I know some just hone until a razor sticks but I think my hones have a little more to offer after that. There was a change in feed back on my last coticule that I believe was suction even though it didn't stick hard that caused my edge to go backwards (over honing?).

Your video is really interesting. Pretty sure we are playing with two different kinds of jasper even though both share the Owyhee connection. I am really interested in that second jasper hone, did it come from the same ebay seller?

Here is the Owyhee picture jasper that I have been playing with.

Mine have definitely been flattened and prepared for razors. I'm glad to because these things are hard. They feel harder and finer than any of my Arkansas stones. I bought them from different eBay sellers and neither one of them has anything available at the moment.
That little green one came from
https://www.ebay.com/usr/custommadesharpenersandkinves

The larger beige/gray (I'm real colorblind and it changes quite a bit depending on light) one came from
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sajohnso-960

I have finished about 10 razors on the green one. The feeling is keener than an Ark. WAAAYYY keener than coticule. Not as smooth as a coticule, but pretty close to smoothness of Arkansas. Dangerously sharp. I split my cheek open with a Japanese wedge just by going a little too quickly against the grain. Still have a tiny scar from a couple of months ago.

I have only finished 2 razors on the beige/grey one. I haven't scared myself yet, but I also have only tried 2 kind of problem child razors so far. Haven't thrown anything real scary at it, but I have every reason to believe that it is just as capable as the little one. They look a lot different but they feel the same.
Jasper and novaculite are both made of microcrystalline quartz so it makes sense that they would have similar properties. Jasper isn't really a geological name like novaculite though so each piece is going to have a lot more variance than with Arkansas stones and my experience is only with these two pieces of jasper and about 6 pieces of hard Arkansas.
 

Desert Rat

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The big one came



Mine have definitely been flattened and prepared for razors. I'm glad to because these things are hard. They feel harder and finer than any of my Arkansas stones. I bought them from different eBay sellers and neither one of them has anything available at the moment.
That little green one came from
https://www.ebay.com/usr/custommadesharpenersandkinves

The larger beige/gray (I'm real colorblind and it changes quite a bit depending on light) one came from
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sajohnso-960

I have finished about 10 razors on the green one. The feeling is keener than an Ark. WAAAYYY keener than coticule. Not as smooth as a coticule, but pretty close to smoothness of Arkansas. Dangerously sharp. I split my cheek open with a Japanese wedge just by going a little too quickly against the grain. Still have a tiny scar from a couple of months ago.

I have only finished 2 razors on the beige/grey one. I haven't scared myself yet, but I also have only tried 2 kind of problem child razors so far. Haven't thrown anything real scary at it, but I have every reason to believe that it is just as capable as the little one. They look a lot different but they feel the same.
Jasper and novaculite are both made of microcrystalline quartz so it makes sense that they would have similar properties. Jasper isn't really a geological name like novaculite though so each piece is going to have a lot more variance than with Arkansas stones and my experience is only with these two pieces of jasper and about 6 pieces of hard Arkansas.
I think mine are not prepared, lapped correctly. They look smooth, feel smooth but are killing edges. Both of those guys that you bought stones from are local to me. I have some suspicions about the origins of that green one. Possibly a jasper that I have been trying to get my hands on for quite some time, I just didn't get a good enough look and even with one I might not be sure.
 

stringer

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I think mine are not prepared, lapped correctly. They look smooth, feel smooth but are killing edges. Both of those guys that you bought stones from are local to me. I have some suspicions about the origins of that green one. Possibly a jasper that I have been trying to get my hands on for quite some time, I just didn't get a good enough look and even with one I might not be sure.
I bought them blind and got lucky I think. Both seem really well lapped and prepared and working great. I have seen people on YouTube who say that you can lap one side coarse and one side smooth and get some of the benefits of having a more versatile stone. Use the coarse side for more aggressive work and the fine side for finishing. I haven't tried this yet and frankly probably won't. I have plenty of coticules and synthetics that can do this work easily and lapping a piece of jasper does not seem like it would be easy. Good luck with your pieces, or contact one of those guys. I got both pieces for very reasonable prices, especially considering the cost of Arkansas stones.
 

inferno

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Stringer, I think some of that honing style is to minimize sticking, it's a real issue especially with the flatter side of Kamisori's. I know some just hone until a razor sticks but I think my hones have a little more to offer after that. There was a change in feed back on my last coticule that I believe was suction even though it didn't stick hard that caused my edge to go backwards (over honing?).

Your video is really interesting. Pretty sure we are playing with two different kinds of jasper even though both share the Owyhee connection. I am really interested in that second jasper hone, did it come from the same ebay seller?

Here is the Owyhee picture jasper that I have been playing with.
imo there is no such thing as "overhoning" if you think about it how can this possibly happen on a flat surface?? it cant. unless you push it seriously hard and then it can and will happen all the time.

"sticking" happens as soon as the blade gets close to the same flatness at the stone. i did a whole back side of an xl santoku and stiction started hapening at abnout 1k. it was so bad the blade would suck up the entire stone.
its just a reciept that the stone and blade is tuned well. but it can happen at 1k and probably lower too.
 

inferno

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I think mine are not prepared, lapped correctly. They look smooth, feel smooth but are killing edges. Both of those guys that you bought stones from are local to me. I have some suspicions about the origins of that green one. Possibly a jasper that I have been trying to get my hands on for quite some time, I just didn't get a good enough look and even with one I might not be sure.
forget about unknown stones imo. get a spyderco UF and mash it with a F rod to knock the particles off. thats a synth jasper or ark. as good as its gonna get imo. and very slow.
 

Desert Rat

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imo there is no such thing as "overhoning" if you think about it how can this possibly happen on a flat surface?? it cant. unless you push it seriously hard and then it can and will happen all the time.

"sticking" happens as soon as the blade gets close to the same flatness at the stone. i did a whole back side of an xl santoku and stiction started hapening at abnout 1k. it was so bad the blade would suck up the entire stone.
its just a reciept that the stone and blade is tuned well. but it can happen at 1k and probably lower too.
I never could get my head wrapped around the term "over honing". I do believe suction is the devil though.
 

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That's really nice. Interesting that the toe looks safe on that new one. Shaves are so good with the Kamisori's but it's challenging for me to keep flipping back and forth so I don't use the westerns that often.
they have been like that for several years.
 

inferno

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yeah suction will happen as soon as the blade has the same surface roughness and curvature of the stone at hand.
 

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imo there is no such thing as "overhoning" if you think about it how can this possibly happen on a flat surface?? it cant. unless you push it seriously hard and then it can and will happen all the time.
I agree with this. The old timers who talked about over honing were just describing a wire edge in my opinion. The best way to avoid that is not use too much pressure and finish on a really fine stone. But I don't think you can have too many laps on a finishing stone.


"sticking" happens as soon as the blade gets close to the same flatness at the stone. i did a whole back side of an xl santoku and stiction started hapening at abnout 1k. it was so bad the blade would suck up the entire stone.
its just a reciept that the stone and blade is tuned well. but it can happen at 1k and probably lower too.
Propylene glycol helps with sticking. gives you a little bit of cushion without resorting to oil. Someone mentioned it on here or B&B, I've started using it mixed with water on lots of different stones, artificial and natural.
 

Desert Rat

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forget about unknown stones imo. get a spyderco UF and mash it with a F rod to knock the particles off. thats a synth jasper or ark. as good as its gonna get imo. and very slow.
It's way to late for me, I'm hopelessly lost in the world of natural stones, they are the only stones that interest me.
 

inferno

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I agree with this. The old timers who talked about over honing were just describing a wire edge in my opinion. The best way to avoid that is not use too much pressure and finish on a really fine stone. But I don't think you can have too many laps on a finishing stone.




Propylene glycol helps with sticking. gives you a little bit of cushion without resorting to oil. Someone mentioned it on here or B&B, I've started using it mixed with water on lots of different stones, artificial and natural.
baking powder seems to work too and it prevents rust. if doing carbons i mean. i did a carbon blade last time. and it literally started rusting in front of me. in real time. then i started putting some baking powder in there, voila no rust and no suction as a bonus.
 

Desert Rat

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It seems that honing under running water works for some coticules. About that easy too.
 

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I'm adding to the list a 1:1 water ballistol mix and anyone should have now something to choose from, that works.
 

Desert Rat

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My latest razor hone. Said to be a Fiddich river. Very nice edges, it took me a little while to get there with this hone because I don't use magnification as I should. It's a slow stone and at a little over five inches I have to put in work. It has really odd feedback, no sticking ever even with a Kamisori.

 

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Nice, I imagine shaving in front of a camera is harder than in solitude.
 

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Nice, I imagine shaving in front of a camera is harder than in solitude.
Lol. For sure. You can see me shaking a little. The video with the beard is literally the first time I ever tried to shave my chin with a straight razor. The second video is a few weeks later.
 

inferno

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I put a couple of shaving videos on my youtube channel. I still have a lot to learn but I am feeling more confident.

This one I shave off my beard. I used a Red Imp wedge.


3 pass shave with a Boker

i for one think you should shave your head :)

its very rewarding and i did it for about 10 years. you feel so "clean" afterwards.
 

Luftmensch

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This one I shave off my beard.
The video with the beard is literally the first time I ever tried to shave my chin with a straight razor. The second video is a few weeks later.
Cool videos! Nice job. Why did you decide to go clean?

I guess I am like you? I have only been shaving my cheeks and neck. Although I have been doing this for years (5-7?), I have never actually straight-shaved my chin or moustache... so i would feel very clumsy doing it! I'd probably look less confident and experienced!

I am far from a straight razor expert, so take this only for the inexperienced empathy it is; I got a little nervous for you in sensitive areas where you weren't stretching your skin!

One tip I learned is to rub an alum block on your non-razor hand fingers. This makes them super grippy - which is useful for stretching the skin. I thought this tip was creative. And it is cool... but I've probably only used it twice...
 

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I'm trying to get better at skin stretching. I can get away with some stuff with a nice extra hollow like this little Boker in ways that get me into trouble with wedgier grinds. The alum block trick definitely works. I just like to have a very keen razor and use as little pressure as possible. If I can get a good stretch I do. But I don't push it. Because then I usually end up looking myself in the eye with my finger or lacerating my ear lobe.

I decided to go clean to practice straight razor shaving mostly. I always keep it real short in the summer, so figured I would try it while I have time to practice without having to worry about a few gushers here and there.
 

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Finally going to try making my own straights. Just finished heat treating these. After tempering, they're all coming in at ~65hrc. Done in AEB-L. After they're all ground, I've got someone else that's going to be doing the scales. I'm limited on wheels I can use to do the bevels, so we'll see what all I do. Definitely no full hollows at the moment though, but at least one wedge.

01.jpeg
 

Desert Rat

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Finally going to try making my own straights. Just finished heat treating these. After tempering, they're all coming in at ~65hrc. Done in AEB-L. After they're all ground, I've got someone else that's going to be doing the scales. I'm limited on wheels I can use to do the bevels, so we'll see what all I do. Definitely no full hollows at the moment though, but at least one wedge.

View attachment 80821
It looks very challenging, I would love to see them finished.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of AEB-L. What abrasives are required for sharpening?
 

The Edge

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It looks very challenging, I would love to see them finished.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of AEB-L. What abrasives are required for sharpening?
AEB-L is a stainless/semi-stainless with a very fine grain structure. Definitely more abrasion resistant than simple carbons, but not as ridiculous as some of the newer steels. Sharpens well on most abrasives, that I've found. Was working on a wedge on the stones yesterday, and while time consuming, it wasn't as bad as I was imagining. Does make me realize I need a better finishing stone though. My 12k Chinese stone left a deeper scratch pattern than my 8k.

Here's where I'm at the moment. All need to see the stones, though one wedge is pretty much there. The other wedge is going to take some time to finish on the stones, but the slight hollows should be a quick to put an edge on. I'll most likely shave tomorrow to see how they're doing.

02.jpeg


Here's the wedge.

03.jpeg


Here's the slight hollow. I'm going to need more wheels to do 1/4 hollow or more, but wanted to test out with what I had.

04.jpeg


Once they're done, I'll be sending them off to family/friend for them to put scales on for me. I'll show more pics when I have them, though it may be a while.
 
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