lets have a new razor thread.

Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Find deals on amazon
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Dendrobatez said:
What size wheel did you use and what do you need to do it right?
Click to expand...

I used an 8" wheel to do the slight hollows. From my research, I've heard you need 2", 4", 6", and 8" to do most of the grinds, though this is brand new territory for me. I have a 2" wheel, so just need a couple more to be able to play around with more grinds.
 
Shaved with one of the slight hollows yesterday. Sharpened up super easy, though I left it at 8k with a strop afterwards since finding my 12k leaves a courser scratch pattern. As you can see, the grind isn't perfect, with a little more hollow about 1/4 way from the tip. Was still able to get a great edge regardless.

A bit awkward to shave without a handle, but the shave was smooth (especially since I ran out of shaving soap, and just used water). With the lock down, I haven't worried about shaving, and forgot to stock up on essentials. Guess it's time to order, and I can give an update when I get these back.

05.jpeg
 
I have just read this whole thread again in preparation of honing a razor for the first time. I have been shaving for a little bit now working through 3 vintage razors and figuring out shaving technique. The hardest part so far for me has been the stropping. I have been getting good results recently. I have a horsehide strop and a flax linen strop. The flax linen doesn’t seem to help me out much so I try and avoid it. The razors are still shaving alright but need a little love.

My highest grit synthetic stone is a 6k diamond stone from JKI. The only stones I have beyond that are jnats: Mizukihara, Ozuku, and a tomo nagura. I also have an Aizu and a red aoto.

I tried the higher grit naturals and have not passed the HHT. The way it is shaving arm hair makes me think it will shave fine but I am disappointed that I didn’t crush the HHT first time out. I do have a balsa strop that for sure has .5 micron chromium oxide on it. The problem is a also have 1 micron and 3 micron diamond sprays and feel pretty confident that some time over the last few years I most likely sprayed one if not both of them on it.

I am wondering if my naturals are not quite fine enough or if it is just technique? The motions don’t seem that complicated. Maybe I need to to drop down to the Aizu and work back up Mizukihara to Ozuku. Or should it be the other way around?

Anyway, I mostly want to thank everybody for contributing to this thread and for the help I have received so far. I’ll update either when I shave or go back to the stones. Any thoughts or pointers are appreciated.
 
Shaving arm hair means you have some kind of bevel, so that is a great start. After that it is just refining that edge into something that will shave your face easily and comfortably (Not necessarily passing the HHT). Out of the jnats you've listed, I would assume your Ozuku is the finest? Since razor bevels are usually set with something around 4k synthetic, I would not drop down to the aizu or red aoto, maybe not even the mizukihara if you already have a working bevel. Try doing a couple tomo nagura refinements on your ozuku, slowly diluting the worked slurry until close to water. Once you register on the HHT, that's when pastes and sprays will start to take the edge up a notch. Good luck!
 
I took a second razor down to Aizu and back up. I had previously very successfully ruined the edge stropping with too much pressure. After the Ozuku and bare leather it did pass the HHT but barely. I would be generous to myself and say it is partly due to my very fine hair but I just got a chopper from Butch Harner and a hanging hair that enters the same room as that razor splits on it’s own.

When morning comes I will see how my honing actually performs.
 
Most of my razors sharpen and polish nicely but cut whiskers like a deba cuts carrots. Might have to tweak them a bit more aggressively and see whether I like them more.
 
Chuckles said:
I took a second razor down to Aizu and back up. I had previously very successfully ruined the edge stropping with too much pressure. After the Ozuku and bare leather it did pass the HHT but barely. I would be generous to myself and say it is partly due to my very fine hair but I just got a chopper from Butch Harner and a hanging hair that enters the same room as that razor splits on it’s own.

When morning comes I will see how my honing actually performs.
Click to expand...

I think that when you are first starting out you should eliminate as many variables as you can and figure out a simple strategy that works for you. And once you get that down pat then you can start really experimenting changing one variable at a time. I would imagine that your 6k diamond stone is pretty much dead flat and probably pretty fast too. There isn't much reason to go beneath that unless you need to set a new bevel or repair a chip or something. I would start there. Do 50-100 laps just to reset the edge and clean up whatever damage and corrosion has accumulated on the bevel. Then do a 100 laps on whichever of your jnats seems to be the finest and hardest. Very light pressure, just enough water to keep it moistened, no slurry. Just using the jnat to polish up the 6k edge. Strop on bare leather. See how it feels in a test shave. If it feels rough, then try another 100 laps.

*Edited for clarity

If you just want to bump up the keenness a little, especially on heavier old school Sheffield grinds, then a diamond or CBN loaded strop might be something to consider. If it feels sharp but irritating then try finishing it on the Jnat again, but try raising a little slurry first. Definitely work on your stropping technique. It is equally, if not more important than the honing. Don't worry about speed, just make sure that the razor feels and sounds the same going in both directions every time. Just enough pressure that you can feel the razor evenly making contact at both the spine and the edge. Hold the strop firm but not too taut. The bowing/flexing action is important for putting the perfect convexity on the apex, but it should be controlled and precise.

Shave a couple of times. Stropping between every shave. Then reset the bevel again on the 6k and add another stone into the progression and see how that behaves. You can also try other cloth based strops. I have tried several of lots of different materials. Some I hated. The one I now use is a women's woven belt made out of cotton or flax or something. I bought it at the Salvation Army for a dollar. If I don't use it between the stone and the leather then the edge does not seem to be as keen or comfortable. So keep trying different things.

Have fun.
 
Last edited:
i flattened one side of my UF stone. i decied to go with the loose grit/glass plate method since its the only one that works well on a sintered non porous stone.

so i didn't have any silicon carbide powder. and i dont want to waste a diamond plate on it either.

so i simply burned 3 a4 SiC sandpapers :) ta-da, loose grit! i used 60 and 120 grit papers.

took me about 30 minutes to flatten the stone (about 1,5mm warp).

then i put it on a worn dmt C 325. and used minimal pressure. and the end result was similar to the unflat side, that i have run white sharpmaker rods on to get rid of the stray grits sticking up.

i also noticed after the 60 grit SiC spa treatment the surface was ultra rough and evil. and if it never wears down i think surface could be good. i think i'm gonna leave one side at 60 grit just for fun
 
The shaving went smooth off the natural. Definitely the most time consuming part of honing was flattening the stones to be appropriate for razors. The third razor in need of honing I put across the loaded balsa strop a few times and it immediately passed the HHT. So I bought a fine weave cotton strop from Tony Miller to put some paste on. I have .5 micron chromium oxide on hand. The razor forum seems to think that is not fine enough. To me it seems odd that half the crowd thinks 12k synthetic straight to leather is all you need and the other half thinks .5 micron is not fine enough for finishing. Wondering if anybody has an opinion?

I am going to focus on the Ozuku because I want to try holding it in my hand over the sink out of convenience sake. If I need to speed it up I will play with naguras on it. It took forever to flatten this stone so now I have to use it.

I am driven to figure out the honing because these three hollow ground 5/8” razors are phase one. Figure out shaving and maitenance. Phase two is the next four razors where the grinds get fuller and the sizes run up to 7/8” plus. Phase two looks really fun but in the interest of controlling variables and not ruining increasingly valuable razors I am trying to control myself.

**If any mods stumble across this I can’t seem to upload photos to this thread.**
 
Hahaha, yeah I know.. I waited on some flytying material from the US and it took almost 2 months...

Illyria said:
Waiting on my Nakayama Kan finishing stone. Going on 30 days of shipping so far.

Damn the pandemic messing up shipping internationally, haha.
Click to expand...
 
Chuckles said:
The shaving went smooth off the natural. Definitely the most time consuming part of honing was flattening the stones to be appropriate for razors. The third razor in need of honing I put across the loaded balsa strop a few times and it immediately passed the HHT. So I bought a fine weave cotton strop from Tony Miller to put some paste on. I have .5 micron chromium oxide on hand. The razor forum seems to think that is not fine enough. To me it seems odd that half the crowd thinks 12k synthetic straight to leather is all you need and the other half thinks .5 micron is not fine enough for finishing. Wondering if anybody has an opinion?
Click to expand...

I bought a Shapton Pro 12k a long time ago. Thinking I would eventually get the 16k and 30k stones. I never used it much. The edge it produces works fine for shaving. It isn't as comfortable as shaving off of natural stones. When I first started out I would do a whole progression of synthetics. Shapton Pro 1k - Shapton Glass 2k - 4k - 8k - Shapton Pro 12k. And then I would finish on Coticule, Arkansas, Jasper or Jnat.

I did a bunch of experiments with many different coticules. I realized that pretty much any coticule can do the mid range work faster and with better results than a progression of synthetics. I also bought a Shapton Pro 1500 for bevel setting. I like it better than the 1000 or the Shapton Glass 2k. I haven't found a natural that sets a bevel fast enough for me yet. I probably spend 80% of my honing on the bevel setting stone already. So speed is extremely important. I also use the 1k and 2k a lot for kitchen knives so they are almost always are out of true. A razors only stone is easier to maintain.

So my current progression is Shapton Pro 1500 - Coticule. I can stop there and be perfectly happy. Especially with hollow ground razors. But I usually finish from there on Ark or Jasper. For heavier grinds and wedges, I like to do a post finish step with a .25 micron CBN pasted nylon strop. A lot of people think that wedges are much more difficult to sharpen than hollow ground razors. The problem really isn't that they are difficult to get keen. It's a question of geometry and friction. Hollow grounds are, well, they are hollow. This creates an air gap between your face and the razor's face. Wedges lack this airgap and will tend to vacuum stick to your face if your technique isn't perfect.

One solution is taping the spine of wedges and near wedges to create a microbevel at the apex that has a different angle than the face of the blade. This slight thickening in the angle of the apex creates a bit of a shoulder/transition between the bevel and the razor's face which reduces the suction tendency. I don't like this solution. It will make the shave more comfortable, but it also diminishes the potential keenness of the razor by a bit, just like when you add a microbevel to a knife. You have taken a wedge shaped flat ground razor that had an apex of 12 degrees and added a microbevel that has an apex of 13 degrees, or something.

You can achieve the same end result with a pasted strop. Instead of creating a microbevel, you are adding microconvexity. This means that the angle of the apex is still being thickened, but without going so far as being faceted into a shoulder. It will be gently convexed by the hanging strop instead of flat ground from spine to edge, which reduces the sticking. It will also be very smooth and comfortable. I have a cheap Pakistan nylon/leather combo strop that I reserve just for this task. The nylon side is treated with the cbn. A little dab will do you. I start with 20 or 30 laps on the nylon side. Then do 20 or 30 laps on the leather. Then I wash and dry the razor to avoid contaminating my main strops. And finish it on my normal naked linen and shell strops. I could probably maintain a razor indefinitely by doing periodic touchups this way. Don't tell my wife.

Just like with the knife world, there are people who obsess over the grits and microns and whatever. And just like with the knife world, your technique in sharpening and your skill in use is far more important than what equipment you are using. My favorite finishers are my translucent Arkansas and a piece of Owhyhee Jasper. But I have gotten shave ready edges off of a half dozen different coticules, a $12 Chinese natural, a Shapton Glass 8k, a suita, a hideriyama, a rika 5000, several different varieties of hard Ark and even a lily white Washita.
 
You just might. I'm in the fire hose challenge for 2 months maybe and we use a fire hose with one side diamond paste (I went for 0.1, most of the guys for 0.25, but I considered that my way will allow me to go lower if ever necessary) and the other clean. That's all. Right now I pushed down the number of passes to 30 only on the diamond side. Looks like this is the limit. Still going strong.
 
i'm slowly converting a SS mora companion to a shaver. need to figure out how to hollow it out in some precise and repeatable way.
mora shaver.JPG
 
A new to me Diari kamisori honed on an unknown slate and a Genuine Water Hone. Hard little hone and very fine. Despite what the label says it does not self slurry at all. I don't know how the ones are that don't carry the E&S trade mark or if the green ones are finer but I am impressed with this little hone.
 
Going down this rabbit hole now too.. Straight razor, wanted to buy the "Iwaaki Kamisori 50mm" from Maksim. Any better for a beginner? In terms of easy use and price value. Think I would start practicing slowly on my days off, not in the middle of a caffeinated 90-hour work week. :)

"3: Straight Shaving Saves You Money." Haha don´t think so in our case
 
lechef said:
Going down this rabbit hole now too.. Straight razor, wanted to buy the "Iwaaki Kamisori 50mm" from Maksim. Any better for a beginner? In terms of easy use and price value. Think I would start practicing slowly on my days off, not in the middle of a caffeinated 90-hour work week. :)

"3: Straight Shaving Saves You Money." Haha don´t think so in our case
Click to expand...
it's pretty nice, but to be honest, Kamisori is a bit overrated. I have one, after using it for a couple of months, I still prefer my Thiers Issard. Maybe it's the length? or the grind? Maybe I just like the western style more.
 
I can’t comment on kamisori, but my best for the buck razor is the pretty common, Filarmonica No. 13. It is a stainless one a takes the finest edge of all my razors (the rest is mostly Japanese). I payed some 60 or 80 € for it.
One of the most important parts of the finishing on a natural stone is to creat just a few drops of slurry. If you make too much it is faster in dulling the edge then it is abrading the bevel of the edge as with every stroke you are pushing the edge through the slurry.
 
Matus said:
I can’t comment on kamisori, but my best for the buck razor is the pretty common, Filarmonica No. 13. It is a stainless one a takes the finest edge of all my razors (the rest is mostly Japanese). I payed some 60 or 80 € for it.
One of the most important parts of the finishing on a natural stone is to creat just a few drops of slurry. If you make too much it is faster in dulling the edge then it is abrading the bevel of the edge as with every stroke you are pushing the edge through the slurry.
Click to expand...

May I asked where you found this? Been looking around, seems to be no one selling it for under 100€, and also quite hard to come by.
 
I got one off eBay and one off one of the German FB groups. I might have been lucky though. I still think though that the best way to get a razor is from some razor groups - guys longer in the game have dozens of them and are often willing to sell some, so you can take the eBay or Buyee lottery out of it. With that said - if you are buying a razor from unknown source, than a Japanese razors are your best bet as they did not really make any low-end razors and the HT is great. I got razors for around 50 in a very decent condition.
 
lechef said:
Going down this rabbit hole now too.. Straight razor, wanted to buy the "Iwaaki Kamisori 50mm" from Maksim. Any better for a beginner? In terms of easy use and price value. Think I would start practicing slowly on my days off, not in the middle of a caffeinated 90-hour work week. :)

"3: Straight Shaving Saves You Money." Haha don´t think so in our case
Click to expand...
I started with kamisori's and have no regrets. I got into straights to save money so my first razor wasn't near as nice or any that I own now for that matter. Start with what appeals to you and it might be best to get comfortable with it before you start bouncing back and forth between the two styles of razors.

Go ahead and treat yourself, that's why you work such long weeks. :cheers:
 
Wondering if the collective wisdom can shine a light on something. I’m also interested in straight razors to reduce waste. I know the cost savings angle is self-deception.

Picked this up as a first to learn on. It’ll get shaving sharp, but doesn’t shave as well as a safety razor or a Harry’s. It eventually does the job, but not terribly comfortable. I’ve worked it over with blue, yellow coticules, black Ark, translucent Ark, wet and dry for all, leather strop with 1micron diamond, plain balsa. Can’t seem to get that HHT sharpness.

I realize that I may have a lot more to learn on the sharpening, but also curious to know if anyone has an instinct on whether this razor is worth putting more work into, or maybe upgrading to something else.

C838AD7F-D633-4E83-8889-C8AF29656677.jpeg

3BF31582-C5D8-443C-827A-1BFD2D30E6B3.jpeg

FDC92817-31DD-4326-AC98-F1FE406A537D.jpeg
 
I never got a shave with a straight razor that felt as smooth as a disposable, multi-bladed razor - irrespective from who honed it. The result can however be every bit as good. The feel can be improved a lot by giving your facial hair time to soften (warm shower does the best job) and by a well prepared lather.
 
Make sure the bevel is properly set on medium stone. Also, leather strop matters if you want to have a nice edge.
if you having a hard time having an HHT on medium stone, you will have a harder time on Finer stone. I don't know how fine it is the razor could take since it's a stainless one.
 
OK, thank you. So you expect to pass an HHT on a medium stone?

The razor was nicked when I received it, so I reset the bevel on a 1k stone (after flattening the stone). I tried for an even burr, then reduced the burr on finer stones. It doesn’t seem like I have a burr anymore. I can pull the edge thru balsa, and the edge feels clean, and shaves, but I could still need some practice. It just seems like it should be able to pass a HHT at this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top