Live and learn - how would you guys proceed?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by drsmp, Aug 15, 2019.

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  1. Aug 15, 2019 #1

    drsmp

    drsmp

    drsmp

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    7FED3A06-5144-4CA8-BF19-7F7520E42348.jpeg F6412039-8BC5-4699-A515-8DD1D8DCB6B4.jpeg ECF7F0D5-004F-4B15-8D75-25775AD0C76E.jpeg
    So I purchased a Yoshikane SLD 240 Black Damascus from a prominent EU dealer with a very good reputation. I ordered the knife primarily for the “look” as well as the glowing reviews. I naively assumed that the purchased knife would look like the advertised items pictures (bottom) yet I received a blade with a washed out color -much closer to grey(my pictures are accurate of the knife in hand) . Even worse to me the Damascus was rather muddled looking and there was a big shiny spot void of any Damascus pattern right in the middle of the blade. Ugh! When I politely emailed the dealer about my disappointment in the look, his reply was basically sorry/not sorry and hey that’s the “charm of a handmade blade”. I reframed from snarking about why didn’t they use this charming blade as their glamour shot and instead asked about a return/exchange for a better looking example. Not an option but they did offer a return if I paid for $30 USD label. I decided OK not what I was hoping for but I knew that I would never be happy with this B grade version . So I returned the knife using the supplied label. Once the seller got the knife he issued the refund but subtracted $86! When questioned what’s up, he replied that he also subtracted the original as well as return shipping as agreed. No that wasn’t the agreement. So live and learn or contact my credit card/PayPal and file a complaint?
    Going forward I will definitely always ask for pics of the actual blade being shipped before payment. As a bit of a silver lining I just picked up an exceptionally nice example of the Yoshikane SLD Damascus from KKF member Elliot so all in all a happy ending.
     
  2. Aug 15, 2019 #2

    drsmp

    drsmp

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  3. Aug 15, 2019 #3

    Jville

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    I would never receive this type of service from the banned site cktg. :) That really sucks though man. I think its jacked up to charge you the extra shipping, especially if that wasnt agreed upon.
     
  4. Aug 15, 2019 #4

    rickbern

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    I rented a defective car from sixt in the Netherlands and found European norms about dealing with unhappy customers are a little different than what I’m used too.

    Annoying, but personally I think I’d not buy from this vendor again but I guess I’d let it go. Not a large enough number for me to go through the hassle

    And I like that Eliot ends up being the hero in this story!
     
  5. Aug 15, 2019 #5

    drsmp

    drsmp

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    @Jville Ha! it wasn’t Mark ;)
    I really feel like it was a case of unload the ugly duckling on the American , he’ll keep it due to the hassle and cost of a trans Atlantic return. I have a really hard time believing the seller thinks the knife he sent is a charming example - especially for a moderately expensive knife. Charging an extra $56 -and zero apology- really bugs me
     
  6. Aug 15, 2019 #6
    Ouch! Cleancut?
     
  7. Aug 15, 2019 #7

    drsmp

    drsmp

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  8. Aug 15, 2019 #8

    Jville

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    Yeah, i knew it wasnt Mark - obviously hes not European, but it seems bad for bussiness to just screw someone because they are American, knife nuts are still a niche market. I could definetely see it irking you.

    so ofcourse, time to spill the beans, who was it?
     
  9. Aug 15, 2019 #9

    Gregmega

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    I had the same snarky response from cleancut. They’re kinda off my list now sadly.

    But more importantly. How’s she cut?
     
  10. Aug 15, 2019 #10

    Jville

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    op response posted just before i posted, got it, cleancut.
     
  11. Aug 15, 2019 #11

    tgfencer

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    Just to my eyes, and it may very well be the lighting, but the etch on the original knife that you returned seems off to me. Not dark enough at the top/washed out slightly, and a bit too dark at the bottom. Again, its hard to tell from the picture, but my 270 looks like Elliot's knife and the advertising photograph and not at all like your original knife.

    I wouldn't necessarily jump aboard the 'screw the American' bandwagon myself. As for the double shipping charge, it would irritate me. Enough to do something? Maybe, maybe not. My other question to the vendor though, would be why was the Europe to US shipping $56 dollars, when the return was only $30? Generally, although not always, I've found its usually cheaper to mail out of Europe then into it.

    Glad you got a good example from Elliot in the end. These knives are elegant beasts.
     
  12. Aug 15, 2019 #12

    Caleb Cox

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    I'd dispute the extra charge, anything unauthorized is the seller getting over on you (again).
     
  13. Aug 15, 2019 #13

    Jville

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    you could also make tbe claim that the knife was not as advertised, so that would be sellers fault.
     
  14. Aug 15, 2019 #14

    drsmp

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    @Gregmega I didn’t use the Cleancut knife for fear of a further reduction in refund price or out and out return refusal. Haven’t received Elliot’s knife yet.

    In my mind definitely not as advertised. Would be different if he’d sent pics beforehand and I’d OKed shipment. Yes the etch and Damascus pattern where both off
     
  15. Aug 15, 2019 #15

    Elliot

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    Thanks for the kind words, my friend.
    I always enjoy the positives of our community.
     
  16. Aug 15, 2019 #16

    drsmp

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    @tgfencer What the seller did was quote 30 USD but said I agreed to 300 SEK x 2. No idea where the extra deduction came from? He also claimed the shipping to me was expedited - although I had to drive to the UPS store for pickup which I think is a less expensive option
     
  17. Aug 15, 2019 #17

    Migraine

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    He subtracted $86? But presumably you'd already had to pay for the return shipping yourself in order for it to actually be shipped, so doesn't that mean he charged you for return shipping YOU paid for?
     
  18. Aug 15, 2019 #18
    FWIW I've been done worse by Mark. "That's a manufacturing problem, you'll have to contact them (in Japan)" And you named him and store so Togo can't be banned....:cool:
     
  19. Aug 15, 2019 #19

    CiderBear

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    Sorry you had a bad experience with CC. I've only bought from them once, luckily everything went smoothly in my case and I was very happy with my knife, but in no way that negates your bad experience.

    I would not be happy with the 86 dollars subtraction from the refund. Assuminb you already paid 300 SEK for the original shipping (which is what I did) on top of the knife, then you should only be charged 300 SEK for the return shipping.

    Did they charge you 300 SEK for the original shipping, or was it free shipping?
     
  20. Aug 15, 2019 #20

    Corradobrit1

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    Thats total bs. There is nothing in the terms of service stating you have to pay for the original shipping if an item is returned. You only pay the subsidized return shipping using the label they provide. You should ask them to reread their Return Conditions and refund the balance of your original payment. I will not be shopping at Clean-cut. Another EU based retailer, Messerkontor, has a completely different approach to Customer Service, and I only have good experiences. So to say EU businesses are less customer focused, compared to US based ones, is a misnomer.
     
  21. Aug 15, 2019 #21

    drsmp

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    I paid 4,296 SEK for the knife - the PayPal invoice said Yoshikane 240SLT delivered by UPS. There was no breakdown on the costs
    I agreed to $30USD deduction from the refund for the return label which they emailed along with customs documents
    Yes their terms don’t specify that delivery fees will also be deducted. They say returns are accepted but buyer is responsible for return postage and fair deductions will be made for decreased value of any damage or use. Glad I sent a bunch of photos or I may have been hit with damage fees as well
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  22. Aug 15, 2019 #22

    CiderBear

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    So it looks like you paid
    4995 * 0.8 + 300 = 4296

    *.8 is the VAT reduction, and 300 is the original shipping. Is your refund 3996 SEK? Because that would be the full price of the knife
     
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  23. Aug 15, 2019 #23

    drsmp

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    Nope 3696 sek refund
    May have lost some $ on the exchanges
    but cost was $470.48 and refund was $384.78
     
  24. Aug 15, 2019 #24

    Corradobrit1

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    Politely inform them they made a mistake. If they refuse to fix the discrepancy open up a charge dispute with your Credit Card (not Paypal). Clean-cut have no recourse here, as the T&C are quite clear.
     
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  25. Aug 15, 2019 #25

    drsmp

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    If I had buyers remorse sure hammer me for the shipping both ways. But they sent a B grade knife - voids in Damascus cladding and an off color etch. The pictures on the website were not an accurate representation of the delivered knife. The charm of handmade items blowoff rather than acknowledging a fair complaint. By their terms a damaged item would get a full refund and free return but I was OK with paying $30 rather than get in an email war, how they handled it was especially galling
     
  26. Aug 15, 2019 #26

    drsmp

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  27. Aug 15, 2019 #27

    drsmp

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    Rather than get more gaslighting from Cleancut , I went ahead and called my credit card (which is also a PayPal card). They thought best course of action was to file an item not as described claim so we’ll see what happens. Hopefully a nonknife CSR can appreciate the differences in what I received vs what they advertised.
    Somewhat telling that DaveB guessed the seller and Gregmega had the same experience.
     
  28. Aug 15, 2019 #28

    CiderBear

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    Actually, I think 3696 is the correct refund. The non-VAT price is a 3996, minus the 300 return shipping. That would come to 3696.

    I'm all for contacting the credit card issuer though if you feel like the seller didn't do right by you. It seems like there were communication issues all over this transaction, so might as well let the credit card company be the middleman in this.
     
  29. Aug 15, 2019 #29

    ian

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    To be fair, I guessed it too, but just from the "EU seller with sterling reputation" and knowing that JNS doesn't carry these. Maybe daveb has better reasons for guessing it, though.
     
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  30. Aug 15, 2019 #30

    TB_London

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    To add some balance, from a vendors perspective if you order a Damascus knife it would be reasonable for the pattern to not match the representative pictures. Calling it a b grade knife suggests a defect, but there was nothing apparently wrong with it other than looks. Why should the vendor lose out on shipping you the knife? If it was bent or cracked or otherwise defective then they should bare the cost. If the random pattern Damascus is different to the sample pic, that’s to be expected IMO.
     

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