Live and learn - how would you guys proceed?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by drsmp, Aug 15, 2019.

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  1. Aug 15, 2019 #31

    WildBoar

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    Sorry your interactions with the vendor were less than satisfactory.

    And a slight tangent, random damascus is, well, random damascus. You won't fully know what it will look like until the blade is ground. With random damascus you get what you get, and good luck expecting a maker to throw one in the trash due to the final appearance. It seems like the main issue (to me) with the knife you were sent was with the etching vs what was shown in the product photos. Etching is a mixed bag, with some preferring to forgo the extra contrast in order to minimize the depth of etching, while some like a stronger etch as a possible aid in food release.
     
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  2. Aug 15, 2019 #32

    Corradobrit1

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    Agreed, and OP paid for return shipping. There is nothing in the conditions that says buyer also has to foot the outgoing shipping charges whether knife was returned due to defect, damage or change of mind within the 30 day grace period.
     
  3. Aug 15, 2019 #33

    Paraffin

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    Aren't "looks" a big part of what you're buying with a Damascus knife?

    The slightly washed-out etching wouldn't bother me that much, because if it's a working knife and not just for collection, that can change with time anyway. But that obvious void in the pattern would bother me. It should have been rejected as soon as it was discovered for a knife selling at this price (circa $450 USD). It looks like this was something that slipped through the QC cracks of either the bladesmith or the retailer.

    I wouldn't jump to a conclusion that it was because the retailer thought an American wouldn't notice. This is the kind of thing that happens without bias in some outlets, where people just aren't looking closely enough at what goes out the door.
     
  4. Aug 15, 2019 #34

    MarkC

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    I generally agree with your take here but it seems like the simplest thing to do in that case would be to grab one that has better / more desirable finish, snap a photo and send it along and exchange the knife. Seller could then go back to the maker or decide how he wants to sell it (mark it down, etc.).
     
  5. Aug 15, 2019 #35

    CiderBear

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    Pretty sure the 300 SEK outgoing shipping was already paid when the knife was purchased. The seller shouldn't be responsible for the amount.
     
  6. Aug 15, 2019 #36

    Elliot

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    Just for the sake of ongoing communication and learning, a point of view:

    I would say the knife pictured is not fair play. While it is damascus, Yoshikane isn't completely hand made (to my knowledge) and is actually celebrated for their consistency. This isn't the rarest knife. . . they're out there and I have seen pictures of dozens. This was an outlier to my eyes, which, again, I am conceding are not that of some of the much more knowledgeable people out there.

    I won't comment on the vendor, as I have never personally dealt with them and, like OP, have heard good things prior to this. What's more, I try not to comment negatively on another business without VERY SERIOUS reason.

    Just my two cents.
     
  7. Aug 15, 2019 #37

    Corradobrit1

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    If that's the case it has to be stated in the Terms and Conditions
     
  8. Aug 15, 2019 #38

    bahamaroot

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    I've bought two knives from CC and both transactions were very smooth and both knives were top notch but stories like this give me pause when it comes to dealing with them again. I think it comes down to returns are just that much more of a hassle for both parties when it involves international commerce.

    I bought a Toyama Damascus from JNS and the finish on it was horribly scratched up. Maksim said it was totally normal with Toyama knives and was going to charge me just over $60 in return/restocking fees and I had to arrange and pay for return shipping. Was going to cost me $120 +/- before any currency exchange or cc frees, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I just wound up disclosing the problems and listing it locally taking a little less of a hit on it and saving time and trouble.
     
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  9. Aug 15, 2019 #39

    drsmp

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    @TB_London Regarding the looks of Damascus, if it’s all about performance/function (Straight/no cracks etc )why pay an almost 100% premium for an SLD Damascus over similar gyutos ? Why didn’t the seller use this example for his webpage or give me a heads up? I paid a premium for a “Black” Damascus with a uniform pattern like every image on the website, what I got wasn’t even in the ballpark. As far as just grabbing a knife out of inventory, I specifically asked to send one with a nice look and they said they would
     
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  10. Aug 15, 2019 #40

    CiderBear

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    You can't buy from CC directly to the US. The transaction is done via email, where they will tell you that the price is EU price minus 20% VAT, plus 300 SEK for shipping.

    If you return the knife, you'll get the price of the knife back, but it's unfair to expect the seller to eat the original shipping cost that you already agreed to pay for in the first place.
     
  11. Aug 15, 2019 #41

    CiderBear

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    If you really think it was a defect, why did you try to pass it onto another KKF member on BST instead of going through the return process? https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/yoshikane-sld-damascus-240-gyuto.42809/
     
  12. Aug 15, 2019 #42

    MarkC

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    It really makes you appreciate folks like Jon when it comes to customer service. I don't think I have ever heard of issues like this from him and I suspect he would work hard to make things right when things go wrong.
     
  13. Aug 15, 2019 #43

    Corradobrit1

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    The Terms and Conditions still stand whether arrangements are made via email on directly through the website. If there are addendums they need to be stated clearly upfront in writing. Its clear there's an issue with the knife so this is not a simple case of buyers remorse. Anyway its in the hands of the CC disputes Dept and they will decide one way or another who on balance of evidence is in the right.
     
  14. Aug 15, 2019 #44

    drsmp

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    @CiderBear
    I posted it because at first I went with CC’s hey it’s all part of the handmade process reasoning. I had photos of the actual knife and it was cheaper than US retailers. Then the more I thought about it , the more it bothered me. So I returned it rather than pass it on to someone else.
     
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  15. Aug 15, 2019 #45

    drsmp

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    @CiderBear
    “You can't buy from CC directly to the US. The transaction is done via email, where they will tell you that the price is EU price minus 20% VAT, plus 300 SEK for shipping“
    When I said I’d like to buy the knife, I just got a PayPal request for the total.
     
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  16. Aug 15, 2019 #46

    RDalman

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    My cents and on their local reputation. Great guys reliable and top service. I believe this case might be communications. Returns no matter the reason is normal here in sweden when buying, it's actually the law when buying online, for 14 days from you getting the item.

    I don't think I would have considered that random dammy faulty either, it's just that one layer is exposed a bigger spot just there. On the looks and pictures, it's sad they didnt set your expectations so you where disappointed. It's about lighting and angles probably.
     
  17. Aug 15, 2019 #47

    bahamaroot

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    That's not the way it worked for me. You contact them and they quote you a price that includes shipping and then offer to send a PayPal invoice. There is nothing said that it is EU price - VAT + shipping. There is no break down in the cost in any way even on the invoice.
     
  18. Aug 15, 2019 #48
    And also to be fair I "guessed" the only Euro retailer that I'm aware of selling Yoshis. Not based on any previous experience. I got the same knife in Ktip a few years ago from Maxim but he's out of the Yoshi business now.
     
  19. Aug 15, 2019 #49

    CiderBear

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    I asked and they quoted me that
     
  20. Aug 15, 2019 #50

    Carl Kotte

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    I’ll have to echo @RDalman here. I live pretty close to CC and I have dealt with them on several occassions: they are good (and by local standards: exceptional) and they have an excellent reputation. I’m sorry to hear that you @drsmp had this bad experience with them! It should be emphasized more explicitly on their web page that the pictures aren’t accurately displaying every token of the same type of knife - but that variations occur.
    While I can’t be certain, I don’t think anyone intentionally wanted to fool you (or fool you qua American - as discussed above).
    Anecdotally, I can add that last time I bought a knife from them I did so in one of their physical stores (I seldom do - mostly I order online): they only had three exemplars left of the particular knife I was interested in, and they let me take all my time to decide between them (I didn’t take much time because I got bored and really couldn’t care less about small variations, but I recognize that that is a particular personality trait not universally shared ).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  21. Aug 15, 2019 #51

    bahamaroot

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    There is no doubt that this particular example did not represent the line as a whole. Setting aside the Damascus pattern, there was definitely something "off" with the etching. It should have been sold as a second, retailers do it all the time when they receive knives with cosmetic defects.
     
  22. Aug 15, 2019 #52

    Corradobrit1

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    Like the Ikeda's on Bernal. Slight cosmetic defects get a 15-20% discount off list price.
     
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  23. Aug 19, 2019 #53

    RDalman

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    stringer, Carl Kotte, riba and 2 others like this.
  24. Aug 19, 2019 #54

    Carl Kotte

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  25. Aug 19, 2019 #55

    Carl Kotte

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    Maybe it’s because the knife got the recognition it deserved in the end. Romantic
     
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  26. Aug 19, 2019 #56

    Keith Sinclair

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    I càn see the lure of Damascus. Also whàt you like in a knife is subjective. Like rough areas on blades like stainless clad Kochi. The older ginsan Tànaka with rougher nashiji finish. Ku carbons with hammer marks from forging process. Polished knives not my cup of tea. Different strokes.

    Have seen some great looking damascus, most don't thiñk nice enough to pay extra cash for. If put out big buçks for a Damascus looks very important.
     
  27. Aug 19, 2019 #57

    Corradobrit1

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    I love Damascus if its subtle. This Rader being one of my favs. Kato is also included.
    R3i01UV.jpg
     
  28. Aug 19, 2019 #58

    CiderBear

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  29. Aug 19, 2019 #59

    Barclid

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    Yeah I gotta say, you're being incredibly nit-picky. The knife looks totally fine, and calling it b-grade is laughable. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this "void" in the patterning - it's not a defect, just a quirk. I can see returning it if you wanted the knife exclusively to display and you wanted the darkest etch possible, but you're going to have to re-etch it down the line if you use it even moderately.
     
  30. Aug 19, 2019 #60

    Keith Sinclair

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    Always liked the looks of Tanaka Ironwood Damascus, I think they maybe etched. So etching will wear lighter with use? I know there are examples of non etched Damascus these knives should hold their design right? As you can tell have very little experience with damascus other than the thousands of Shuns out there. I have a 6" shun blade, use it to break down Costco roast chicken.

    Would like to own a quality Damascus blade would be used some and serve as a show piece blade.
     

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