Lookig for good recipe for sous vide brisket finished in oven

Discussion in 'Sous Vide' started by krx927, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. Mar 15, 2019 #1

    krx927

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    In my last sous vide thread everybody was saying I should try some tough cuts of meat for longer time instead of steaks. So I will try some brisket that I was able to source.

    I was checking the net for the recipes but would still appreciate your inputs. I am looking for a good recipe for sous vide brisket that I will finish in the oven (as I do not have any other way).

    I was checking the recipes on the net and I found some that use just salt and pepper for the rub, others use glazes and more elaborate spice blends for rubs. What do you suggest?

    Most recipes state that I should do it for 24h at 155F (68C). Would you suggest going to such high temp? Does it really not dry up? Please note that I do not have time for more than 24h of sous vide.

    Thanks for you suggestion.
     
  2. Mar 15, 2019 #2

    btbyrd

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    Wubba wubba.

     
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  3. Mar 15, 2019 #3

    DamageInc

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    This is what I did and it worked out great. Just have to cut waaaaay back on the salt in the rub.
     
  4. Mar 15, 2019 #4

    krx927

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    Wubba wubba, I was already looking at this recipe. My issue with it is that I do not have time to brine and I cannot source molasses. Serious eats says that brinning is not really necessary for sous vide, so no issue.
    What can I use instead of molasses?
     
  5. Mar 15, 2019 #5

    DamageInc

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    I also can't really source molasses easily so I make a mix of honey, maple syrup, and brown sugar.
     
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  6. Mar 15, 2019 #6

    btbyrd

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    I wouldn't try that recipe then. The brine is essential, as the liquid smoke and smoked salt are crucial flavoring elements. It will taste weird if the smoke flavor is just in the glaze on the exterior and not in the core of the meat. You can still use the time/temp as a guideline though.

    DamageInc's molasses substitution suggestion is a good one.
     
  7. Mar 15, 2019 #7

    krx927

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    I suppose I can add some liquid smoke in the sous vide bag and in 24h some flavour should get in the meat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  8. Mar 15, 2019 #8

    Michi

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  9. Mar 16, 2019 #9

    rickg17

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    If you're skeptical of SV as a method, I'd recommend recipes that you can do as written. Otherwise, you're not going to get the results that someone who did follow it will get and, if the food doesn't turn out, you can't really know if it's the technique or the deviation from the recipe that's at fault.
     
  10. Mar 16, 2019 #10

    ian

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    Couldn’t you just do a dry brine with liquid smoke added? Maybe even just seal that all in the bag and wait a day or two until you SV it? (As long as you’re willing to forgo the smoke ring.)
     
  11. Mar 16, 2019 #11

    Michi

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    Dry brine works fine. Cover the meat with the rub, add a few splashes of liquid smoke, vacuum seal, and leave in the fridge for a day.

    If you want a smoke ring, add 5 g of #1 curing salt per kilogram of meat to the rub.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  12. Mar 18, 2019 #12

    Michi

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    I take notes after a Sous Vide cook if I'm not sure how things are going to turn out. Time, temperature, thickness. If I'm not happy, I can adjust next time as appropriate. It takes three or four tries (at most) to home in on my personal idea of perfection.
     
  13. Mar 18, 2019 #13

    Vils

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    Have you tried using mørk sirup? With some tasty additives of course.
     
  14. Mar 18, 2019 #14

    krx927

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    So I was cooking this over the weekend and the result was catastrophic! I never prepared meat that would be so completely dry as this brisket.

    I was following chefsteps recipe (68C for 24h) and the only things I changes/omitted were:

    I did not brine the meat (or inject brine). I just did not have time for this. According to Seriouseats this is not so important for sous vide as you will not dry it out at 68 anyway... But obviously it is not exactly like this. But I sincerely doubt that the brine would make a lot of difference as the meat was really completely dry. I did one mistake as I did not try it immediately after sous vide to see how dry it came out of the bag.

    The second change was that I substituted molasses for mixture of brown sugar, honey and maple sirup. This should not have an effect of the dryness, just the taste. But that was no issue as the taste was quite ok.

    I was thinking that perhaps I bought lower quality meat that you guys in the States are getting.
    One thing that surprised me was how much liquid accumulated in sous vide bag. I had just over 3 kg of brisket and I got 1.2 - 1.5l of liquid. This seemed quite a lot for me. But for sure it produced tasty sauce ;)

    Now I will give it one more try and will sous vide it at a slightly lower temp and I will do the brine.

    Any further suggestions?
     
  15. Mar 18, 2019 #15

    ian

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    That was actually my experience with SV brisket in the past. I've only done it a couple times, though, and I don't think I ever brined it. I'll be curious to see if brining/lower temp improves your end result.
     
  16. Mar 18, 2019 #16

    rickg17

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    in brisket there are 2 parts to the muscle, flat and point. Point has much more fat. If you got a flat with all of the fat trimmed off then, yes, you will have a drier result. See Kenji's comment on this:

    I strongly recommend using a brisket with the fat cap intact and plenty of intramuscular marbling. A fully trimmed flat-cut brisket will come out relatively dry compared with an untrimmed cut.

    https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/08/sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket-texas-recipe.html

    Also, I get that you 'didn't have the time' to brine but see my comment above. If you change something major from a recipe you can't know if the result that you dislike is due to that change or to the technique.
     
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  17. Mar 18, 2019 #17

    ian

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    In the states, at least, you have to special order (or be lucky in location) to get your hands on a point cut. I’m not sure I was using a particular recipe when I did it in the past, but what was surprising to me was that the two times I tried it, the SV-cooked trimmed flat cut turned out noticably drier than a conventionally braised similar cut, even after I finished cooking the SV brisket in the same sauce.

    It seemed like the meat all contracted in the SV brisket so that the result was really dense. In the braised brisket, I’m sure the meat was technically just as dry, but the fibers seemed separated a bit rather than compressed together, so moisture from the sauce was able to hang out in the cracks. Not sure I completely understand what accounts for the difference here. (Agitation in the braise? The higher temps somehow? The presence of the additional liquid at the start, given that the SV part was done with just a rub? The lack of room to expand in the bag?)

    Anyway, looking forward to trying one of the recipes above next time I have my hands on a brisket.
     
  18. Mar 18, 2019 #18

    rickg17

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    yeah, point cuts are a pain to find and too many places trim flats too much.

    Braising for some reason seems to baste the fibers in brisket whereas SV liquid doesn't. It's odd. In a lot of ways, both for SV and for smoking, I've moved to chuck roast. Cheaper, very good beef flavor and naturally has more fat so you avoid the whole "I can't find point and my butcher seems to be fat-phobic with flats" thing.
     
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  19. Mar 18, 2019 #19

    podzap

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    mørk sirup
     
  20. Mar 18, 2019 #20

    btbyrd

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    Don't trust everything you read at Serious Eats. Brining matters, especially for lean tough cuts like brisket flat. If you look at the hardcore competition BBQ set, pumping meat full of sodium and phosphates is a pretty common practice. If you're pressed for time and can't soak it, you can always accelerate the process by using a brine injector.

    And truth be told, the brisket flat is kind of a crappy cut of meat. I remember Grant from ChefSteps saying (roughly) that it was one of his least favorite cuts on the cow, and that anything you can do with brisket can be better with short ribs. I sort of agree with that, though OG corned brisket and pastrami are delicious when done properly. I've made corned beef and pastrami from short ribs and cheek before, and they're killer too so... But both corned beef and pastrami involve brining. As unbrined stuff goes, brisket flat is also nice as part of a burger grind, but that's an entirely different ballgame.
     
  21. Mar 18, 2019 #21

    rickg17

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    "...And truth be told, the brisket flat is kind of a crappy cut of meat."

    Yeah, short ribs work well but can be pricey. Again, chuck. Especially for smoking and that kind of thing.

    on Serious Eats - Kenji's articles lay out a lot of reasoning etc and if you read the entire thing you can see where he's coming from. And even he agrees that trimmed flat kind of sucks (but is nice for things like rope vieja)
     
  22. Mar 18, 2019 #22

    Bert2368

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    FYI: Walmart had both flat and point type brisket available for their corned beef last week. The point cut cost about US $.40 less per pound than the flat cut. Both cuts had PLENTY of fat left on.

    They had some large, whole, not corned briskets too, with PLENTY of fat left on.

    Because, cheap stuff is what Walmart sells...

    And while we're on the subject of smoky stuff, does anyone know a source for finnish type "tervasiirappi" in USA?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  23. Mar 19, 2019 #23

    podzap

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    Yeah, I send you some in the mail :)
     
  24. Mar 19, 2019 #24

    krx927

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    Unfortunately I was not aware of the point cut benefits when buying the brisket, I could choose that one but I went with flat instead ;) I will try it for the next time if I will gather the will to do it again.
     
  25. Mar 19, 2019 #25

    Bert2368

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    Cool! Send PM, let's talk.
     
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  26. Mar 19, 2019 #26

    JustinP

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    lol, the last two times I bought meat from Walmart, I had to "re-butcher" it myself.
     
  27. Mar 19, 2019 #27

    Michi

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    That's a plus, isn't it? You get to use your Honesuki and Sujihiki that way…
     
  28. Mar 19, 2019 #28

    ian

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    Yea, I prefer the extra work. It’d be great if more places would sell things a bit less trimmed.

    I don’t buy most meat from Costco anymore, though. We’ve adopted the whole “buy better meat less frequently” thing, for better and often worse... :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  29. Mar 19, 2019 #29

    JustinP

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    I don't mind the extra work, but the last skirt steak I bought there lost about a 3rd of it's weight when I trimmed it up.
     

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