Looking for a 21cm Gyuto with the best food release possible ! (AS or White#1)

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Hello! :)
I hope you are well, I would be happy to have some comments about this search pleaz, thank a lot in advance !!

LOCATION:
Malta (it is inside european union : telling this to take the customs fees in the math)


KNIFE TYPE:
I am looking for a GYUTO knife
19cm or 20cm or 21cm are ok but 21cm might be the best solution
handed - EDIT, error!! : I wrote left but I do want RIGHT, sorry for this error
Western or *** handle are both ok but Western would be better
I could accept aogami super but I really would prefer white/shirogami#1 ( I want nothing else at all than theses 2 choices )
350 eur / 400 usd would be a maximum I think


KNIFE USE:
knife use would be at home. I am not a professional and I do not know how to use a knife like a pro.

I am usually slicing/chopping/mincing vegetables and meats; nothing special about the meat...only basic slicing...no bones

I do not want to choose one cutting motions. I am trying to learn and adapt myself to all this, so I will reply about this in 5 years.

I am currently using a petty 18cm mostly and I would like to complete my small collection and try something else to see if I could adapt myself and love this new knife, or not =)

I do not care about esthetic.
I do not care about comfort.

I would like to have the best possible food release in the world. :cool:
I have several professional chef/cook friends.
After lots of chats with them I understood that in the long term the food release will no longer matter, this point is 500% clear.
But for now this point have a real importance in my eyes and it is my current desire.
In the long term when I will know how to use a knife in a better way I would make another choice, no problem about this next step.

Also I would like that this new knife is available and buyable, for example I would have been happy to buy a Takeda, but they seems not available anymore.
And also if the shop is inside europe, could be better for me as I could avoid customs fees like that.

So at first I tried to gather a list of blacksmiths (based on food release research), and secondly i tried to see if any stores are selling their products.

so, the list of blacksmiths :

Takeda Hamono/Shosui

Hiroshi Kato
Yoshimi Kato

Kurosaki Yu
Kurosaki Makoto
Katsushige Anryu
(some are Masakage Line)

Moritaka Hamono

Matsubara (it is a brand, not a name)


the list of online stores :

/////////////////////
Yoshimi Kato :


Yoshimi Kato
Masakage Koishi Gyuto
Aogami Super with SS Cladding
210mm


Masakage Koichi Gyuto
Aogami Super with SS Cladding
210mm


Yoshimi Kato
Nashiji Gyuto
Aogami Super with SS Cladding
210mm


Yoshimi Kato
Hammered Gyuto
Aogami Super with SS Cladding
210mm


////////////////////
Moritaka Hamono


Aogami Super with SS Cladding
210mm

So you can see that my blacksmith list is certainly not the best regarding my search for the best knife in food release. I am completely open-minded to all proposals.
I also spent time on youtube watching lots of food release videos without having found what I was looking for ahaha.
The other problem in my list is also that there is only super aogami knifes and nothing at all in shirogami/white#1 even is super aogami is OK. :rolleyes:


KNIFE MAINTENANCE:
I am using a synthetic cutting board

I already have all the stones for the sharpening but I never took the time to try until now, so yes I will have to learn how to sharpen.


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


thank you in advance for any indication or help, and long life to this fabulous forum full of informations!

:)

( Edit, also I found just few minutes ago this website, do not know if it is fully adapted but posting there ... Fujiwara Teruyasu
 
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daveb

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Welcome.

Pls no links for first few posts, it drives our anti-spam software crazy.

For your knife, suggest the Kashima Sanjo from Cleancut.se It's made by Yoshikane, white steel, very thin behind edge and very good food release.


Chit, just noticed your looking for 210. Knives and Stones has almost the same knife in 210 in SKD.
 

Pie

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I will continue to plug takeda for food release. It’s second to none ime. His gyuto is sort of funny - long continuous curved profile, extra extra tall, and almost zero heft for its size. If you’d like a more normal sized gyuto he does make a sasanoha.

It is the gold standard for having your slices fall off into a neat stack. The steel is also very nice, takes both toothy and polished edges well.

Something happened to his shop I heard, so new inventory might be kind of low.. something worth looking for and trying tho i think.
 

AT5760

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No suggestions from me, but hello and welcome! I visited Malta a long time ago. Beautiful place, loved the catacombs.
 

Ggmerino

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Hatsukokoro Inazuma. AS and very thin laser. Absolute food release due to grind and combo-finish. But, have to deal with carbon steel care and reactivity.
 

Delat

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You’ll want to check out this thread if food release is your top concern

Pretty much all my knives suck at food release, some worse than others. I’m looking forward to receiving this s-grind soon which will be my first knife purchased with the possibility of better food release: S-grind K-tip gyuto 218x50

Smedja Aspen is in your neck of the woods (Europe) and prices are relatively reasonable.
 

pgugger

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Takeda has the best food release of any knife I have used, by far. But it is also a weird knife in various ways as Pie said above.

Another option might be a wide-bevel style knife. My Gesshin Kagekiyo White 1 has very good food release. That particular example is over your budget target but there may be other similar knives out there that are under budget.

My Yu Kurosaki AS from CKTG also has surprisingly good food release. But not in same class as Takeda.
 

Ggmerino

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May be hard to find a custom s-grind or hook grind under $400. Even a Takeda is a bit above. I think I saw some Takeda on the sale forum. They may wedge a bit without thinning though.
 

rmrf

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I can't speak to 210, but my 240 munetoshi is probably the best food release in my collection. They are definitely within your budget and japanesenaturalstones is in europe.

I always will recommend yoshikane, but the flat profile isn't great if you like rocking or chopping.

However, neither of these makers use white #1 or AS. Was there a reason you put that requirement? If you relax it, you'll probably find a lot more choices with good food release. I generally find a lot of choices in white #2.
 
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I can't speak to 210, but my 240 munetoshi is probably the best food release in my collection. They are definitely within your budget and japanesenaturalstones is in europe.

I always will recommend yoshikane, but the flat profile isn't great if you like rocking or chopping.

However, neither of these makers use white #1 or AS. Was there a reason you put that requirement? If you relax it, you'll probably find a lot more choices with good food release. I generally find a lot of choices in white #2.
White #2 doesn't get as much love as it should. In terms of carbon it's probably my favorite. It doesn't "max out" any categories (like edge retention or corrosion resistance) like other "fancier" steels, but for me it's very much a goldilocks steel in the sense that it balances all the things I care about perfectly.
 

Jason183

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What kind of vegetables you’re cutting everyday? Some knives might Have the best release on potato but not the best release on carrots etc, not all vegetables can be cut the same way with same knife.
 
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Jovidah

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My Mazaki has better food release than my Yoshikane for what it's worth.
But IMO the better answer is 'any knife with a nice tip that isn't too thick and just practise drawcuts'.
Another question is, what issue did you run into that made you care about food release in the first place?
 

Benuser

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Left hander and looking for good food release? Almost all Japanese knives are optimised for right handers. Right face convex, left one flat, edge off-centered to the left. Produce will stick on the flat left face if used by a left hander.
A few makers have knives in stock with an inverted geometry: left face convex, right one flat, edge off-centered to the right. I know about Misono and Masahiro.
Please be aware that a lot of retailers present their stuff as ambidextrous while it is not. Even a symmetric edge doesn't make the geometry of the blade truly symmetric. The only symmetric geometry I've seen was with lasers, where food release was equally bad for both right and left handers.
If a right hander praises the food release of some blade, it is certainly not going to offer the same food release to you as a left hander. On the contrary.
 
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Jville

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Takeda is pretty elite in the food release department, especially considering you don’t have to use much technique. The grind pretty much does it for you. They will come back in stock. They are sold at alot of places.
 
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Jeff

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FOOD RELEASE:
Takeda is a good choice.

Another is Glestain. They are reasonably priced and great food release. They are only about 56HRC and based on my style of cutting wdge retention is not the best . but it just kicks potatos off the blade - - - NO STICKING!
 
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I’ll pile on and say that if food release is your primary concern, Takeda all day. Not one of my favorite knives generally, but they certainly excel in food release.

If you go with takeda, know that his 210’s run quite large. My “small” is 230x65.
 
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You’ll want to check out this thread if food release is your top concern

Pretty much all my knives suck at food release, some worse than others. I’m looking forward to receiving this s-grind soon which will be my first knife purchased with the possibility of better food release: S-grind K-tip gyuto 218x50

Smedja Aspen is in your neck of the woods (Europe) and prices are relatively reasonable.
That is a beautiful knife and I don't think I've seen an S-grind that reasonably priced before! I also like that it somehow levitates in the photos! 😀
 
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hello dear forum and all these participants! :cool:

I'm really surprised I got so many replies. :)

I decided to follow the advice of the greatest number, I decided to look for one more takeda ... and I found one!!! Honestly, I do think it was the last one under 21cm in the whole universe and galaxy and metaverse ahahaha! I just bought it on one website named Chu bo, and it is a Takeda Aogami Super Sasanoha Gyutou Small 180mm (7.1")

Concerning the other answers, obviously I will be happy to answer as soon as I have a bit of time, thank you again for your help concerning this debate which interests me and your suggestions!!!

Have a beautiful end of day. :)
 
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Hello, I hope everything is going well ! :)
Hello AT5760, happy you have been here, I never have benn in Nebraska, we do have beautifuls islands !

Takeda was advised as a good choice 6 times, Yoshikane 2 Times and Kurosaki Yu is the only who comes from my previous list. :cool:

To summary, all other recommended choices are :

- Yoshikane, Kashima Sanjo, Cleancut.se, white steel : very thin behind edge and very good food release / Yoshikane semi-stainless SKD Gyuto 210mm, stainless cladding with Nashiji finish
- Yoshikane, but the flat profile isn't great if you like rocking or chopping.
- Hatsukokoro Inazuma. AS, thin laser, absolute food release due to grind and combo-finish.
- Smedja Aspen for S-Grind
- Gesshin Kagekiyo White#1 has very good food release.
- Kurosaki Yu AS from CKTG also has surprisingly good food release. But not in same class as Takeda.
- Munetoshi 240 is probably the best food release in my collection. They are definitely within your budget, japanesenaturalstones
- Mazaki has better food release than my Yoshikane for what it's worth.
- Glestain : kicks potatos off the blade

Wouarf !!
S-Grind Is one really interesting subject, I will have to check and learn about this, thank for the tip ! :cool:

will have to check also this topic

Rmrf & Ochazuke I understand that one day I will have to go to for a white#2.
For the moment I try to build a collection in several directions and I am really attracted from white 1 and AS
I totally understand that it could be one achievement, one equilibrium between many points, but I will go for white#2 later.

Jason183, I find this remark concerning the different vegetables VERY interesting; because after several videos that' EXACTLY the conclusion I came to, meaning to define which vege I want to slice :

I sliced :
- zucchini
- onion
- garlic
- shallots
- aubergine / solanaceae
- ginger
- broccoli

I do NOT often sliced :
- potatoes
- carrots
- tomatoes

Thank you for all your answers, this topic continues to interest me. ;)

Now that I have made a list I will analyze absolutely each of your advice. :)

Have a beautiful end of day.
 

Jason183

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I don’t think the food release matter that much for the vegetables you’re slicing, you just need something thin at the tip and BTE. Yoshikane is good at those tasks, I saw a video with the Watoyama does these kind of tasks well too.
 

Ruso

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Echoing Jason183, zucchini and big onions are probably the only thing in your list that will benefit from food release oriented grind.
The rest of the thing will stick equally.
 

cotedupy

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Welcome!

I would like to have the best possible food release in the world.

Would it be completely unhelpful if I said that if you wanted the best possible food release in the world you probably don't want to be looking for it in Japan? 😬

I'd get a Wusthof... Every time I sharpen Wusthofs they impress me. They have decent steel and well-thought-out grinds.
 

Ruso

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Would it be completely unhelpful if I said that if you wanted the best possible food release in the world you probably don't want to be looking for it in Japan? 😬

I'd get a Wusthof... Every time I sharpen Wusthofs they impress me. They have decent steel and well-thought-out grinds.

At first I was like "hmmm, mmm, yea", going with western custom or a sim-custom maker might be a better idea for dope food release....
An then I read your 2nd sentence...🤮

:p
 

Nemo

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As @M1k3 said,


Although I think @Kippington made most of these out of 52100. IIRC, it had something to do with simpler steels like 1095 (quite similar to white2) not being as easy to harden in the complex fish hook shape.
 
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Jovidah

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Welcome!



Would it be completely unhelpful if I said that if you wanted the best possible food release in the world you probably don't want to be looking for it in Japan? 😬

I'd get a Wusthof... Every time I sharpen Wusthofs they impress me. They have decent steel and well-thought-out grinds.
Then you have a different Wüsthof experience than i have. I found them to be the worst of both worlds; wedging in hard produce AND crap food release.

The question is though, why care so much about food release in the first place?
 

Nemo

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It should be noted that "food relese" really describes two separate but related properties:
1) Food shedding: How easily does food fall off the blade face?
2) Stiction: How much does surface tension impede the cut in wet foods.

It should also be noted that the grind features that allow good food release require a thicker blade, so tends to increase wedging in harder foods.

To be fair, the Hook Grind doesn't have the best food release of any knife I have used, but it is very close. However, it is much thinner and less wedgey than those knives.

Other knives I have used with very good food release (in roughly descending order) are: Mert Tansu Workhorse, Watanabe and Toyama ironclad (old grind - the new ones are said to be a bit thinner), Yoshikane Tsuchime (be aware that there are many reports of some of these knives being thinner grinds so it may be worth checking whether it is a thin or a thick grind) and Wakui Tsuchime.

Some knives that I have used with an excellent food release to thinness ratio (but not the best overall food release) are Gesshin Gengetsu, Dalman S grind, Shig and Tristone. As great as these knives are, the Hook Grind outperforms all of them in the thinness vs food release trade-off.
 
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cotedupy

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At first I was like "hmmm, mmm, yea", going with western custom or a sim-custom maker might be a better idea for dope food release....
An then I read your 2nd sentence...🤮

:p

Haha!

It slightly surprises me you say that though. Admittedly I don't use most of the ones I sharpen, but they take a nice edge quickly without needing too much playing around altering the geometry, and they deburr easily. And I can't say that for 90% of the knives I sharpen for other people. I'm not necessarily comparing them to smarter Japanese knives, but against a lot of other mid-range knives I think they look quite good.

My in-laws have a couple of sets so I do use them from time to time, and always seem alright to me. Though I know Wusthof have a million different ranges so maybe they bought top-of-the-range sets (they're the kind of people who would). These are some of their knives I sharpened the other day, and the Wusthofs are incomparably better than those Globals, in every conceivable way (except the bloody fingerguards!)

IMG-5402.jpg

---

OP - just to be clear - Even though I think they're fairly decent, I wasn't really suggesting getting a Wusthof in your scenario. For a start they're obviously not made out of the steels you requested. And you have the budget to get something nicer and better. As Ruso said above - a custom might be a good idea I'd have thought.
 
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