Looking for a knife with excellent food release

[dglevy]

Hello knife mavens!

A few weeks ago, cutting my daily apple for breakfast, I pulled out my yanagiba for some reason and was very interested to see that the apple was separating easily from the blade, unlike with all my other knives (Tojiros, Sabatiers, Randy Haas gyuto, etc.). It got me to thinking that maybe I should get a short yanagiba or deba specifically for cutting fruits and veggies that tend to stick. I'm tired of picking up food off the floor after it rolls off my narrow counter. Thus far, these are the three knives that seem most likely to prevent food adhesion, in order of preference. What do people think? I know debas are not intended for this use, but they are the only stainless blades I have found thus far that cost less than $100 and are guaranteed to prevent food adhesion.

1. https://www.**************.com/tojiromv.html Deba 171 mm/6 3/4”, 4 mm spine. $77. Ship $6. Ho wood.https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/Kanetsune.html
2. Kanetsune Knives. 105 mm/4.1”, $45 plus ship from Japan, HRC 59-60 claimed. Unspecified spine thickness.
3. Kanetsugu Hybrid Wa Bocho Series Deba (150mm to 180mm, 3 sizes). 150, 165/6.5”, 180. $85, 90, 100. HRC 57. 5 mm thickness. I don't like the silver anodized aluminum handle. Steel name not given.

 

[slickmamba]

I'll just uhh, leave this here



courtesy of barclid. Its a xerxes laser btw. Don't always need a thiccie

 

[IsoJ]

Excellent food release: Kamon and Kippington

 

[M1k3]

Kippington fish hook. Any maker doing a good convex grind. Takeda? Short wide bevel.

 

[juice]

Kippington fish hook.

Absolutely this.

 

[spaceconvoy]

... they are the only stainless blades I have found thus far that cost less than $100 and are guaranteed to prevent food adhesion.

So, none of the recommendations so far. If you're dead set on using a deba to cut apples then more power to you. But you're riding such a vastly different wave than anyone on this forum and I doubt you'll get the suggestion you're looking to hear now. You'll get plenty of suggestions that will be right for you later, but I sense you'll need to try this crazy idea to get it out of your system first.

 

[adam92]

Hello knife mavens!

A few weeks ago, cutting my daily apple for breakfast, I pulled out my yanagiba for some reason and was very interested to see that the apple was separating easily from the blade, unlike with all my other knives (Tojiros, Sabatiers, Randy Haas gyuto, etc.). It got me to thinking that maybe I should get a short yanagiba or deba specifically for cutting fruits and veggies that tend to stick. I'm tired of picking up food off the floor after it rolls off my narrow counter. Thus far, these are the three knives that seem most likely to prevent food adhesion, in order of preference. What do people think? I know debas are not intended for this use, but they are the only stainless blades I have found thus far that cost less than $100 and are guaranteed to prevent food adhesion.

1. https://www.**************.com/tojiromv.html Deba 171 mm/6 3/4”, 4 mm spine. $77. Ship $6. Ho wood.https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/Kanetsune.html
2. Kanetsune Knives. 105 mm/4.1”, $45 plus ship from Japan, HRC 59-60 claimed. Unspecified spine thickness.
3. Kanetsugu Hybrid Wa Bocho Series Deba (150mm to 180mm, 3 sizes). 150, 165/6.5”, 180. $85, 90, 100. HRC 57. 5 mm thickness. I don't like the silver anodized aluminum handle. Steel name not given.

You probably the first one intend to use deba for apple

 

[Eloh]

Good post above b

I'll just uhh, leave this here



courtesy of barclid. Its a xerxes laser btw. Don't always need a thiccie

Good advice here imo

 

[Iggy]

Hi,

had several S-grinds from different makers over the years. Best one is IMHO the S-grind from Oatley if we are talking about food release.
Problem is, that none of the S- or hookgrinds work with every ingredient and f.e. carrot size. Some work better with small or dense veggies, some with softer veggies, some with big chunks etc. but none IMHO works good with everything.

But... I would always go with a knife with non-satined but roughly forged or kurourchi surface. Why? because these knives have good food release no matter what or to what size you are cutting... Top 3 knives regarding food release from my kitchen...

Catcheside Forged Geometry
JJT Forged Geometry
Heiji Carbon KU Nakiri

After that the S-grinds made by several custom makers, Takeda, other japanese knives with a distinct shinogi, Raquin, etc.

Iggy

 

[damiano]

I find my Munetoshi KU to have great food release. And I would never use a deba on an apple.

 

[Jason183]

Deba sure have good food release on certain products, but don’t recommend on apple, too thick behind the edge, it can wedge and can crack the apple instead of making a smooth cut.

 

[dglevy]

I've mulled over all the comments and thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply . I especially see the point about a deba being too thick, cracking the apple instead of slicing it. I am limited, unfortunately, as mentioned in the OP, by my maximum price of $100--and wanting stainless. (I don't think $100 for a single knife is exactly going 'on the cheap' but folks on this forum might disagree, I suppose...) Of the suggestions so far, the only knife I found that was at least somewhat close to my price range is the Munetoshi KU petty, $125 plus shipping, but it's not stainless...

 

[spaceconvoy]

This is stainless, well under $100, and guaranteed to have excellent food release, since you're willing to explore unorthodox solutions

 

[btbyrd]

The apple slicing movie posted above by slickmamba / barclid is great advice. You don't need a new knife, just better/different technique.

 

[Jovidah]

Whatever you do, don't buy a deba. You'll just be wasting your money. As mentioned by others it'll just crack instead of cut, and won't give a pleasant cutting experience.
Trying to find something below 100 bucks that has both good cutting performance and food release is... quite a challenge. Anything below 100 bucks is going to have compromises somewhere.

I'm also scratching my head how exactly you're cutting. Even with my cheaper knives I don't really spend any time chasing food across the floors...

 

[Nemo]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

 

[Ruso]

I will try cutting and apple with deba tonight. I will let you know how did it go.

 

[McMan]

One thing to keep in mind is that food release isn't solely a result of the grind. It's also impacted by height of the blade. A shorter blade has less surface area, thus less area for food to stick to. A subtler grind can work well on a short knife where the same subtle grind might be a recipe for stiction on a taller knife. S-grinds, compound grinds, beefy convexes... these grinds are used to maximize food release for taller blades.

This said, my suggestion would actually be for a good short petty. Even a thin one, like a ginga (which is short), can have nice food release. I like TF 165mm petty too.

I had a short Watanabe yanagiba that I thought would be great for smaller stuff--it steered, and steered, and steered. (Maybe a technique issue too, but still a PITA.) so, if you're having good results with your yanagaiba, maybe you just found your apple knife?

 

[YG420]

Check out the knife chef hiro terada uses i think its a masahiro. Should be around $100. Seems to have good food release because of the highly asymmetrical bevels.

 

[dglevy]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

One thing to keep in mind is that food release isn't solely a result of the grind. It's also impacted by height of the blade. A shorter blade has less surface area, thus less area for food to stick to. A subtler grind can work well on a short knife where the same subtle grind might be a recipe for stiction on a taller knife. S-grinds, compound grinds, beefy convexes... these grinds are used to maximize food release for taller blades.
This said, my suggestion would actually be for a good short petty. Even a thin one, like a ginga (which is short), can have nice food release. I like TF 165mm petty too.
I had a short Watanabe yanagiba that I thought would be great for smaller stuff--it steered, and steered, and steered. (Maybe a technique issue too, but still a PITA.) so, if you're having good results with your yanagaiba, maybe you just found your apple knife?

Thanks, Nemo, for the link. I came across that thread already but it was so long, I only read a few posts. I will take the time to look at it more closely.
Thanks, McMan, for reading my two posts with care and understanding what it is that I'm trying to do. I will keep in mind to look for blades that are not tall. Yes, the yanagiba does steer. I just start the cut at an angle to take the steer into account. I looked at a couple of short yanagibas and they might do the trick but, yes, the steering is a bit of a bother. One question: what's the brand name of the "TF 165mm petty"?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Glestain. Ugly as sin but people seem to love them. They have models right at $100 including a nakiri.

Glestain Knives - Glestain Cutlery & Tools | knifemerchant.com

 

[McMan]

Thanks, Nemo, for the link. I came across that thread already but it was so long, I only read a few posts. I will take the time to look at it more closely.
Thanks, McMan, for reading my two posts with care and understanding what it is that I'm trying to do. I will keep in mind to look for blades that are not tall. Yes, the yanagiba does steer. I just start the cut at an angle to take the steer into account. I looked at a couple of short yanagibas and they might do the trick but, yes, the steering is a bit of a bother. One question: what's the brand name of the "TF 165mm petty"?

TF=Teruyasu Fujiwara. Available direct here: https://www.teruyasu.net/
I like his nashiji paring knives. They're ~$85, but I have no idea how much s/h is now or how long it takes.

 

[DavidPF]

This is stainless, well under $100, and guaranteed to have excellent food release, since you're willing to explore unorthodox solutions
[picture of a stretched-wire cheese slicer]

You may have been serious or half joking or all joking, I don't know, but I think it's actually a pretty good lesson. It's a Kippington-style hook grind, but instead of going skinny behind the first grind, it goes right down to zero and stays there.

 

[Ruso]

Achievement: Cutting apple with deba completed.
Apple - Granny Smith 75x66mm
Knife - 180mm Tanaka Deba

The initial cut (split in two) was like driving a wedge. The apple cracked and split. Uneven cut surface can be seen on one side of the apple quarters. Subsequent cuts of the halves were accompanied with the loud crunch sound.

Spoiler: Picture

When "dicing" I got some stiction problems. Not too bad, not too good.

Spoiler: Pictures

The final verdict: who would of guessed!? Not the best option. Actually, pretty bad one.
However, I did not notice any steering; the cuts were pretty straight.

Spoiler: End Result

 

[dglevy]

Achievement: Cutting apple with deba completed. Apple - Granny Smith 75x66mm. Knife - 180mm Tanaka Deba
The initial cut (split in two) was like driving a wedge. The apple cracked and split. Uneven cut surface can be seen on one side of the apple quarters. Subsequent cuts of the halves were accompanied with the loud crunch sound. [graphic] When "dicing" I got some stiction problems. Not too bad, not too good. [graphic] The final verdict: who would of guessed!? Not the best option. Actually, pretty bad one. [graphic] However, I did not notice any steering; the cuts were pretty straight.

Yeah, I had pretty much been convinced already that the deba would not work. Now your experiment puts the final kibosh on that one. Thanks for following up!

 

[YumYumSauce]

Deba and yanagiba are fish knives. Seems like you might be interested in an usuba or mukimono which are for veggies and fruits.

 

[dglevy]

Deba and yanagiba are fish knives. Seems like you might be interested in an usuba or mukimono which are for veggies and fruits.

Thanks, yes, I've sort of figured that out by now. See here below.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

Glestain. Ugly as sin but people seem to love them. They have models right at $100 including a nakiri.
Glestain Knives - Glestain Cutlery & Tools | knifemerchant.com

Just an update.

1. I've got to plow through that very LONG thread Nemo recommended, which looks like it's right up my alley.
2. The Glestain is indeed quite ugly, but it definitely looks like it could do the job, thanks! Right now, the less expensive ones are out of stock at knifemerchant.com, but I assume they will be re-stocked at some point.
3. I looked into Masahiro and came across a usuba 165mm for only $82 plus shipping. I would think the single bevel and hollow grind (?) would make food separation easier. It's certainly a lot less ugly than the Glestain...

Thanks to everyone who's posted so far. You've been a tremendous help!

 

[M1k3]

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...ayaki-basic-series-slicer-180mm-210mm-2-sizes

 

[Qapla']

Thanks, yes, I've sort of figured that out by now. See here below.


Just an update.

1. I've got to plow through that very LONG thread Nemo recommended, which looks like it's right up my alley.
2. The Glestain is indeed quite ugly, but it definitely looks like it could do the job, thanks! Right now, the less expensive ones are out of stock at knifemerchant.com, but I assume they will be re-stocked at some point.
3. I looked into Masahiro and came across a usuba 165mm for only $82 plus shipping. I would think the single bevel and hollow grind (?) would make food separation easier. It's certainly a lot less ugly than the Glestain...

Thanks to everyone who's posted so far. You've been a tremendous help!

There are other vendors for Glestain knives.
https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/glestain
As for Japanese single-bevel knives, those would not be recommendable for your application. They're pretty piss-poor for chopping or dicing tall things. If you were to use an usuba or mukimono upon an apple, you'd most likely be using techniques like these.

 

[tostadas]

Achievement: Cutting apple with deba completed.
Apple - Granny Smith 75x66mm
Knife - 180mm Tanaka Deba

I like how you took more measurements of the apple than the deba.