Looking for a new workhorse Gyuto

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Chambes

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2023
Messages
5
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Location
WA
Looking to retire my 270mm Masamoto KS 270mm and Shigeki Tanaka R2 240mm. I have grown pretty fond of taller blade profiles over the past year so would like something taller than both of these knives. Currently looking at Matsubara and Teruyasu Fujiwara Mabroroshi(or Denka, I know they aren't the tallest but I have wanted one forever).

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa-handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$750.00

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly veg prep but a little bit of everything except butchery

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Masamoto KS 270mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push and rock

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Taller blade profile, good edge retention

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
 
750 blows the door wide open for customs. I would look hard at HSC, M Sicard, RyanDGeiger, Shi.Han, Martin Huber, Andrei Markin, and a few others. They can make you exactly what you want in a construction that likely suits a professional kitchen better. I'd be looking at ApexUltra, Z-Wear, or Magnacut (stainless) for edge retention. Toyama, Wakui, Watanabe all come to mind for premium J knives for a pro! Birch & Bevel Apex Ultra for < 600$ for 230 or 250mm. I think you can order direct from TF and ask for some extra height on a Denka if that is what the heart wants. Lots of great options I think.

Edit: This posted immediately after I replied and looks pretty spot on if you want something with a little flash and don't mind a reactive cladding.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/240mm-hsc-gyuto.66110/
 
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Toyama / Watanabe comes to mind. Their 270 is a beast at 57mm tall and has a very very long history of wonderful reviews. I have an ungodly 300 just for fun and it’s fairly amazing but not used very much. In the long term process of custom re-handling and saya if I can just find someone to do it….
 
Looking to retire my 270mm Masamoto KS 270mm and Shigeki Tanaka R2 240mm. I have grown pretty fond of taller blade profiles over the past year so would like something taller than both of these knives. Currently looking at Matsubara and Teruyasu Fujiwara Mabroroshi(or Denka, I know they aren't the tallest but I have wanted one forever).

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa-handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$750.00

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly veg prep but a little bit of everything except butchery

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Masamoto KS 270mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push and rock

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Taller blade profile, good edge retention

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
Get a Denka—easy decision since you've wanted one forever.
 
Tons of great options at your budget. Would second Toyama/Wat and Shihan, both are fantastic, although IME Shihan's heat treat is more biased towards toughness than edge retention. HVB makes a mean workhorse in this range as well (though not all of his are super tall) with a harder HT than Shihan.

If you want to focus on edge retention, a big question is whether you're comfortable/equipped to sharpen really wear resistant steels. I'll let others make recommendations in that space if so, but if you want to stick to more conventional abrasives and tractable steels, AS, 1.2562, and ApexUltra would be good choices.
 
Shiro Kamo R2 damascus is a very tall blade, which is pretty good value for money. It's a middleweight with a pretty good balance between wedging and food release. The blade has a very muted damascus finish which is much less textured than the Tanaka R2. The grind is convex and the assymetryfavours a right hander. A moderately curved profile will allow rocking. The basic versions come with a basic rosewood handle and don't have any spine or choil easing. KnS sells a version called "Shinko Kurokumo" which has a nice KnS handle (which is probably upgradable with some of KnS's pvery nice range of premium handles), spine and choil rounding and a deeper etch to the damascus cladding (which is still pretty muted compared to the Tanaka R2).

The other very tall blade that comes to mind is Masashi SLD. I haven't used it but have read many positive reviews. It does have a very flat profile, so may not be ideal for rocking.

Toyama and Watanabe are fairly tall, especially the 270mm. They have a pretty hard heat treatment of blue2 which has pretty good edge retention but not in the same league as R2.

The other blade that I have that is relitavely tall is my Hinoura Hyakuren. This one is white2, so edge retention is not super. There are AS versions which should have significantly better edge retention. It has a moderately curved profile and quite nice fit and finish.
 
I’d get a Denka over a mab for service for the edge retention. I have both and love them but they did need some thinning and tuning before they were great (mine wedged too much). If that’s something you enjoy and you have wanted one then I’d get one. KS was my first expensive Japanese knife and the Denka is a big step up from that imo.

I’ve never had a problem with TF Gyutos but I have had a twisted mab Nakiri so would be great if you could buy one you could inspect yourself, from someone you trust or forum or a store that wouldn’t sell a bad one. Ryan at district cutlery would be my choice in the states (they can do a regrind as well if you want to lift bevels), you could go direct or Zach at tonkushu. I bought a mab of him last year and he checked it himself and measured everything I wanted to know over the phone.

Customs are also a great idea and magnacut/apex seems like it would be great for your needs but I haven’t used one for a prolonged period.
 
I love my Denka so def co-signing that. I'd keep an eye out for a Kippington Work Pony as well as I hear those are great. There is a great Martell on BST right now that would probably be as good as anything else out there and is under your budget as well.
 
I love Denka, Wat, Toyama, but, in your shoes, I'd go for Shiro Kamo or Ogata, even though both are well below your budget. I would also add Sukenari Hap40 -- the Ktip versions are taller than the regular.
 
I love Denka, Wat, Toyama, but, in your shoes, I'd go for Shiro Kamo or Ogata, even though both are well below your budget. I would also add Sukenari Hap40 -- the Ktip versions are taller than the regular.
I think the Ogata SG2 would be a great fit for profile/steel, but wonder how how well the thin grind will hold up on a pro environment. I can only extrapolate off my 180 bunka but it's more heavy laser/light midweight than a workhorse grind. Not chippy steel though.
 
Isamitsu AS should be about the same as TF denka steel is definitely within your budget. Denka direct is a little over your budget I think and who knows how long it will take to arrive.
 
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The blade dimensions for a 240mm workhorse Gyuto IMO are 240x(55-50)x4(above the heel)mm. It should have a convex grind (or a food release grind like an S-grind, hook grind, etc.) and a Tsuchime finish for less stiction. I like the Yoshikane SKD Tsuchime pattern, and i rate this knife as a middleweight Gyuto.
 
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