Looking for first Usuba, shapes and brands

[blokey]

LOCATION
What country are you in?
China

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Are you right or left handed?
Usuba, righty


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese I suppose, no western handled one at the length I’m looking

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

195-210mm


Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$300

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home, experimenting with knife shape


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

vegetables as intended, but probably more.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
nothing

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

push cut


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

a completely new knife to me so I honestly not sure


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?

rubber

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

After reading some comments by members like @Ochazuke and others, I’m really interested in trying out a Usuba, since I’m in China right now I might as well just buy from Japan. I’m not sure which shape is better for beginners, Tokyo or Kansai. I narrow downed couple shops I bought other knives from and generally have good reputation. 2 are from Tsukiji market, Masamoto and Aritsugu, others are from Sakai, Ichimonji and Suisin white 2.

https://aritsugu.jp/別打鎌薄刃/https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/薄刃包丁各種/products/usee150?variant=12209112317988https://miuraknives.com/japanese-kn...d684-japanese-knife-suisin.html#/35-size-18cmhttps://global.ichimonji.co.jp/coll...i-kamagata-usuba-knife?variant=37479930593436

 

[Dan-]

Your budget is kind of low, but of those 3 options I would pick the Suisin hands down. And I’m sure you already know this, but usuba has its own cutting techniques. In use, either style works. Hamaguri on a kamagata is a bit of a pain, but the thin tip is nice. FWIW I use this one: Sukenari Blue #2 Kamagata Usuba 210mm (8.2") Kasumi

 

[blokey]

Your budget is kind of low, but of those 3 options I would pick the Suisin hands down. And I’m sure you already know this, but usuba has its own cutting techniques. In use, either style works. Hamaguri on a kamagata is a bit of a pain, but the thin tip is nice. FWIW I use this one: Sukenari Blue #2 Kamagata Usuba 210mm (8.2") Kasumi

Thanks, it is bit low, I just want to getting into learning Usuba techniques and don’t want get something too fancy right away, Usubas are bit harder to resell here. Suiting sounds good, and I only had good experience with Miura.

 

[blokey]

Tho I’m still bit interested in the Tsukiji brand, I only had one experience with Aritsugu Yanagi, the fit finish is not on par with something like Yoshihiro but what matters in the single bevel are pretty good, bit anecdotal tho. would love to hear experience with those too.

 

[Ochazuke]

I’ve used Suisin, Ichimonji Mitsuhide, and Masamoto Tsukiji single bevels. They’ve all been fairly good.

My only real suggestion is to buy from a seller you can communicate with. If you’re not buying in person, you want the seller to just double check that it’s straight and flat before shipping.

Kamagata is most people’s preference since the tip is more easily usable, but I actually have a slight preference for kakugata due to the added weight. That’s merely a preference thing though.

 

[refcast]

I've owned a bunch of usuba

180mm kamagata
240mm kamagata
210mm kamagata

240mm kakugata
230mm kakugata
180mm kakugata teruyasu
210mm kakugata damascus

Tried
165mm kakugata

Hmm. Well depends on you. Its mainly whether you like smaller or larger knives in general. Just match to your gyuto or petty size. The most important thing is that the knife has a straight edge, so it would be helpful for the seller to lay it on a flat surface to check for you.

Like whether your comfortable peeling things with a bigger or smaller knife. . . Or julienning longer slices with a larger knife, etc.

I'd personally want a 195-210mm again, but I've bought knives from 105mm to 330mm so it's a user preference thing too. Kama vs kaku, again up to you. You can see my post history if you want to see how tall/heavy/thick spined usuba can be.

I like that there's no tip to chip for the kakugata, when doing julienne motions, which helps me with board work.

 

[Ochazuke]

I've owned a bunch of usuba

180mm kamagata
240mm kamagata
210mm kamagata

240mm kakugata
230mm kakugata
180mm kakugata teruyasu
210mm kakugata damascus

Tried
165mm kakugata

Hmm. Well depends on you. Its mainly whether you like smaller or larger knives in general. Just match to your gyuto or petty size. The most important thing is that the knife has a straight edge, so it would be helpful for the seller to lay it on a flat surface to check for you.

Like whether your comfortable peeling things with a bigger or smaller knife. . . Or julienning longer slices with a larger knife, etc.

I'd personally want a 195-210mm again, but I've bought knives from 105mm to 330mm so it's a user preference thing too. Kama vs kaku, again up to you. You can see my post history if you want to see how tall/heavy/thick spined usuba can be.

I like that there's no tip to chip for the kakugata, when doing julienne motions, which helps me with board work.

I've also tried 180mm - 240mm. My preferred size is 210mm for usuba. As @refcast mentioned, they can get pretty hefty and 210mm is just the right amount of size and heft for me.

 

[blokey]

Thank you all! I am contacting Miura and Ichimonji now and see if they would check it for me.

 

[Qapla']

Deleted.

 

[EShin]

Basically everything has been mentioned already, but Kansai shape (kamagata) has a usable tip but since it’s flat, it can be prone to chipping which isn’t a problem with Kanto shape (kakugata). I think it’s preference but no big differences here. Smaller knives are more nimble and you could easier use it for smaller produce, so I would choose based on own preferences and on the size of the vegetables you want to cut, but 195-210 is good. The most important thing is to buy from a reputable seller who will make sure that it’s straight and perhaps offers honbatsuke so that the knife is flat and stone-ready. Masamoto, aritsugu, ichimonji and suisin are all very good. No experience with miura. Kama-asa, kamata, Tsubaya or yamawaki are other shops that I can recommend very much.

 

[blokey]

Basically everything has been mentioned already, but Kansai shape (kamagata) has a usable tip but since it’s flat, it can be prone to chipping which isn’t a problem with Kanto shape (kakugata). I think it’s preference but no big differences here. Smaller knives are more nimble and you could easier use it for smaller produce, so I would choose based on own preferences and on the size of the vegetables you want to cut, but 195-210 is good. The most important thing is to buy from a reputable seller who will make sure that it’s straight and perhaps offers honbatsuke so that the knife is flat and stone-ready. Masamoto, aritsugu, ichimonji and suisin are all very good. No experience with miura. Kama-asa, kamata, Tsubaya or yamawaki are other shops that I can recommend very much.

Thanks!

In the end I went with Ichimonji since they have good price and service, they checked the flatness and straightness, sent me the pictures, and will do Honbatsuke for free. Great service. (They only have Kamagata for Tan Kasumi series tho)

 

[blokey]

BTW some interesting notes from Ichimonji

“1) "White 2 Kasumi" is a standard type of our Usuba. It is easy to sharpen.

2) "White2 Tan Kasumi" is a higher level of 1). It is made by low temperature process which make the blade is tougher. It is difficult to chip than 1) and has long edge retention.”

I wonder if this contributes the different opinion on Sakai white 2

 

[blokey]

It’s here, thanks for the suggestions everyone, looks good so far