Looking for Jnat recommendations for beginner polisher

[KenjiF]

I sharpen mainly carbon steel with some stainless cladding. I would love a finisher stone that could be used on the edge but my primary use would be for bevel work. I like a kasumi finish on the soft iron with the possibility of banding showing through and a sub-mirror on the core steel. I'm getting much better at getting low spots out of the blade and want to see how good I can push it with some Jnats. Under $500 for the first stone would be ideal and something with a shallower learning curve that I can practice on. From my research, I should be looking at mid/soft hardness and fine grit. Any suggestions?

My current synth lineup is Shapton 180, Cerax 320, Nanohone 200 micron diamond resin plate, cerax 1000, chosera 3k, Rika 5k and a kitayama 8k.

 

[user 50275]

Personally with my limited experience(own an Aizu,aoto,uchi, shiro suita) i would say that all your requirements are hard to fill with just one stone.
Maybe a middle(3+ up to 4+) hardness suita. Can be used for edges, creates a semi mirror on core or sometimes even on the clad.

Here are some suitas:

https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/suita.htmor here
https://www.shop.kurashige-tools.co...v.price.lte=320000&sort_by=created-descending

PS: Please correct me if im wrong.

 

[mengwong]

Take my advice with a vein of salt because I haven't even gotten mine wet yet, but would #681 Imanishi Ohira Tomae Type 40 Size 1170 Grams Easy 3.5 Hardness 3+ – Bernal Cutlery (or one of its siblings) meet your requirements? This was recommended by Bernal as a good choice for "Baby's First J-Nat."

 

[Nemo]

Abandon all hope ye who enter here

 

[Nemo]

Abandon all hope ye who enter here

For disambiguation, what I mean is that Jnats are a very deep and expensive rabbit hole...

 

[ethompson]

You're on the right path in terms of choosing a first stone. Something soft enough to self slurry without turning into a mud bath and relatively fine is generally speaking the right way to get into the JNat world. Thankfully there are tons of options that fit this bill - better tomaes (buy from someone who can show you a polish pic and has tested the stone, tomae can vary wildly from mine to mine) & softer suitas.

As others have alluded too, it's quite the rabbit hole and don't expect to be one and done.

 

[KenjiF]

Personally with my limited experience(own an Aizu,aoto,uchi, shiro suita) i would say that all your requirements are hard to fill with just one stone.
Maybe a middle(3+ up to 4+) hardness suita. Can be used for edges, creates a semi mirror on core or sometimes even on the clad.

Here are some suitas:

https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/suita.htmor here
https://www.shop.kurashige-tools.co...v.price.lte=320000&sort_by=created-descending

PS: Please correct me if im wrong.

Wow big selection. These look great. Thanks Christopher

 

[KenjiF]

Take my advice with a vein of salt because I haven't even gotten mine wet yet, but would #681 Imanishi Ohira Tomae Type 40 Size 1170 Grams Easy 3.5 Hardness 3+ – Bernal Cutlery (or one of its siblings) meet your requirements? This was recommended by Bernal as a good choice for "Baby's First J-Nat."

I’ve been looking at these. Sounds like a perfect fit for the first one. I’ll give them a call

 

[KenjiF]

@Nemo @ethompson wasnt too long ago I said ‘I only need one carbon steel knife… that will cover all my bases…’ hard to delude myself now that I will stop at 1 Jnat…

Thanks for the advice I’d be lost and in the dark without this forum.

 

[Heckel7302]

echoing the others, be forewarned, it's a slippery slope and you likely won't stop at one.

In the meantime, one of these could start you off nicely.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/four-stones-price-drop.63809/
I'd probably go for the Umaji. The price is certainly right for a full sized upper mid grit stone.

 

[Pie]

As mentioned above, a great way to buy stones when you know what sort of result you’re looking for, and asking the seller for some sample polishes.

If you’re brave, you could go off the reputation of the seller or brand.

It sounds like you could use a softer and middle fine-ness suita, something a little reactive but not crazy acidic to highlight some grain, and capable of soft mirror cladding and dark contrast if you want. I promise it’s not because I just got one, but marouyama shiro suita fits this bill as well as the price tag. A small koppa should be about $150-200 + shipping. I think they also have ultra reactive stones dedicated to stainless steel. Toishi.jp

Hideriyama can be wonderful if it’s really soft, Takeda’s collection I have full trust in. Cooks edge has them, at reasonable prices. Fair warning, they’re super soft but can get you to a nice pink fuzzy mirror cladding. The shobu id like to try. ~ $200-350.

I have a baby aizu that just blasts out detail in core steel, but scratches the heck out of the clad. Those are an option as well, but really do need some discussion to find what you’re looking for.

Man. Exciting. Put the nose plugs and goggles on, you’ll be up to your ears in rocks soon!!

 

[KenjiF]

As mentioned above, a great way to buy stones when you know what sort of result you’re looking for, and asking the seller for some sample polishes.

If you’re brave, you could go off the reputation of the seller or brand.

It sounds like you could use a softer and middle fine-ness suita, something a little reactive but not crazy acidic to highlight some grain, and capable of soft mirror cladding and dark contrast if you want. I promise it’s not because I just got one, but marouyama shiro suita fits this bill as well as the price tag. A small koppa should be about $150-200 + shipping. I think they also have ultra reactive stones dedicated to stainless steel. Toishi.jp

Hideriyama can be wonderful if it’s really soft, Takeda’s collection I have full trust in. Cooks edge has them, at reasonable prices. Fair warning, they’re super soft but can get you to a nice pink fuzzy mirror cladding. The shobu id like to try. ~ $200-350.

I have a baby aizu that just blasts out detail in core steel, but scratches the heck out of the clad. Those are an option as well, but really do need some discussion to find what you’re looking for.

Man. Exciting. Put the nose plugs and goggles on, you’ll be up to your ears in rocks soon!!

Amazing Pie! Thanks so much for the info! After seeing Milan’s videos polishing on JNats that’s the first stone I was looking for! I’d love to get one but prices were very high… but I didn’t look for koppa size though that’s a great tip! Naturals can be much smaller because the stones generally prefer shorter stroke correct?

I am planning on dropping into JKI and trying a few hideriyama stones they have. I was in there and they recommended it for sharpening not polishing as much but I’m guessing a soft one will work well.

 

[DHunter86]

Hideriyma suitas are definitely the way to go if you can find a relatively clean one. Them being soft makes them more forgiving, and are known to be quite versatile on many different steels. Downside to this is that they tend to be a bit coarser, and probably not burnish the core steel much - brings out less detail.

 

[lesslemming]

Look at some of the fine examples you get in the “Uchigumori show your work” thread.

I learned some hard facts early on: the best way to ensure a smooth and even finish is finger stones or powdered stone after you are finished with your JNAT. Works wonders to even things out.

That being said: look for a nice medium or soft stone as a beginner. Slurry is probably your friend

 

[KenjiF]

Look at some of the fine examples you get in the “Uchigumori show your work” thread.

I learned some hard facts early on: the best way to ensure a smooth and even finish is finger stones or powdered stone after you are finished with your JNAT. Works wonders to even things out.

That being said: look for a nice medium or soft stone as a beginner. Slurry is probably your friend

I have a tomae and some uchi on the way from @ethompson to make some! I got a soft hideriyama as well. Will be a fun week.

 

[lesslemming]

I have a tomae and some uchi on the way from @ethompson to make some! I got a soft hideriyama as well. Will be a fun week.

Have fun and enjoy the process.
Make sure you grind the finger stones thin so they can flex. This will make the finish a lot more even

 

[KenjiF]

Just wanted to thanks everybody for the amazing advice! As warned I’m am now furry and have an appetite for carrots but at least I have the rocks to make those carrots very small.

BBW, shobu Tomae, Mauro suita, soft hideriyama, akapin koppa, takashima koppa, shobu renge suita and tiny nakayama suita koppa. The Denka is a 240 for size reference.

2 more on the way from @ethompson. Let’s see how deep this hole goes…

 

[KenjiF]

Also forgot this one my 4 year old brought back from the park after seeing me collecting rocks. Haven’t tried it yet but looks pretty coarse…

 

[deltaplex]

Also forgot this one my 4 year old brought back from the park after seeing me collecting rocks. Haven’t tried it yet but looks pretty coarse…

Make sure to post pics after you've got it lapped and chamfered!

 

[Steve56]

As far as polishing metal goes, nothing really matters except the last stone, possibly last two. In sword polishing, it is acceptable to use alternatives for all grits now except for the final polish which has to be uchigumori.

I’ve done a good bit of metal polishing experiments, and my advice is to use sandpaper on glass up to around 2000 grit, then switch to JNats. You just have to try the JNats and see which ones produce a nice finish that appeals to you. Harder stones tend to streak the steel unless you use a heavy slurry. and sometimes even then.

Polishing metal is far more rigorous that sharpening knives or even straight razors. The natural stones have to be absolutely free of any coarser grit that will leave scratches on the metal that show at finer polish. Scratches that won’t bother even a straight razor edge can ruin your metal polish.

Softer stones like a Hakka, ceiling suita, shallow layers like akepin, and soft school-bus yellow kiita and iromono are good bets, but like all natural stones, it’s pot luck.

Fingerstones are an economical way to finish - take a piece of fine sandpaper and place it grit side up on the blade, then rub the fingerstone on it to form the fingerstone to the blade shape. Raise a little slurry and then have at it.

 

[Steve56]

BTW, I haven’t been here long enough to plumb the depths of the material here, but I haven’t seen shiro nagura mentioned much as sharpening/polishing stones. Historically they were used as polishing stones until Iwasaki and Asano co-opted them as slurry stones for razor sharpening in the 1960s. They’re available in many sizes and shapes and decent ones are suitable for polishing.

A nice large Mikawa botan or tenjou would seem to be a fine knife stone for both polishing and sharpening.

Mikawa are the best known, but there are others, Chu, Gifu, Gujyo….

 

[user 16756]

Can you get a small Maruo shiro suita for less than 500 dollars these days?

Ideal first stone IMO.

 

[ethompson]

Bench nagura are great polishing stones, but a bit trickier to use for bevel work on knives that a soft Kyoto stone and a different style finish as well.

Can you get a small Maruo shiro suita for less than 500 dollars these days?

Ideal first stone IMO.

Maybe. But the nice sunashi ones are skyrocketing in price. Should be able to get a usable one for less than that still I think. I’m working on getting some now.

 

[KenjiF]

Bench nagura are great polishing stones, but a bit trickier to use for bevel work on knives that a soft Kyoto stone and a different style finish as well.

Maybe. But the nice sunashi ones are skyrocketing in price. Should be able to get a usable one for less than that still I think. I’m working on getting some now.

That one is from Watanabe and it’s not confirmed it a maruo. He said he was pretty sure it was but not confirmed. It was about $550. He had small ones that are confirmed and cheaper but they are koppa.