Looking for laser-ish knife with somewhat flat profile

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beanbag

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Location
Silicon Valley, CA
USA
210 gyuto with japanese handle (octagon preferred)
Stainless or semi-stainless
< $ mid 200's
home use, mostly veg, rarely meats, e.g. salsa, curry, stew
Usually avoids rocking cuts
Yes, I can sharpen
Prefer back half of blade to be almost flat

If it were in stock, I may just get a Takamura R2 210mm for the low low price of $180, even though it has the wrong handle type and is still a little too curvy near the chopping region.
 
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Pretty much what @timebard said.

Here’s my Yoshi - I had to do a small repair that slightly lengthened the flat spot but this should be pretty representative. This is a 210 k-tip from Epic Edge. After comparing with a Koutetsu for a couple small meal preps, I’d say the Yoshi qualifies as a laser. My copy, anyway.

It’s so incredibly thin behind the edge and easy to sharpen that it wouldn’t take you more than a few minutes to extend the OOTB flat spot if you wanted.

You may also want to check out @Andrei knives. They always struck me as having quite a flat profile. SOLD - Gyuto 52100

Something like a 185 santoku or bunka might also be worth considering.

7523CFB6-1BAD-4712-83D4-7EB185AFBBF3.jpeg
 
beanbag said:
Just saw this thread from 2016. Some people say it's not a laser.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/anyone-tried-the-yoshikane-kiritsuke-gyuto.30499/
Click to expand...

Based on comments I’ve seen, I think some of the different versions of the Yoshikane might have slightly different grinds. Mine’s the tsuchime/hammered from Epicurean Edge with a concave grind, and I think weighs around 140g.

Here’s a carrot test I did comparing my yoshi, kurosaki, and 180mm myojin. I cut really slowly both with the front and back of each so you can see how smooth they are. Not really any difference between the kurosaki and yoshi in terms of cutting, but the kurosaki feels more solid/stiff. I love my yoshi, but the edge and tip are delicate, so be sure that’s what you want to sign up for.
 
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beanbag said:
Just saw this thread from 2016. Some people say it's not a laser.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/anyone-tried-the-yoshikane-kiritsuke-gyuto.30499/
Click to expand...

There's some variation across batches but I'd describe my non-k-tip version as a very light midweight (125g) that cuts better than most lasers I've tried, with the added comfort factor of a thicker spine above the heel. If you want a pure laser, maybe Takamur is the move, but side by side the Yoshi is the better cutter IMO.

Edit: choil shot:

1360.jpg
 
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timebard said:
There's some variation across batches but I'd describe my non-k-tip version as a very light midweight (125g) that cuts better than most lasers I've tried, with the added comfort factor of a thicker spine above the heel. If you want a pure laser, maybe Takamur is the move, but side by side the Yoshi is the better cutter IMO.
Click to expand...

This is just a question about semantics / definitions, but how is a "midweight" a better cutter than laser?
 
beanbag said:
This is just a question about semantics / definitions, but how is a "midweight" a better cutter than laser?
Click to expand...
Other people have more well-formed opinions than me, but I think that the weight of the knife helps. There's also the phenomena that a thinner knife does not always have superior cutting performance to a thicker knife due to food sticking to the blade (stiction, friction, food release, etc). My first two knives were an ikazuchi (laser from jki) and a kaeru (midweight? from jns). In wet foods like potatoes and zucchini, the kaeru had better "cutting performance" despite it being significantly thicker behind the edge. (by cutting performance, I mean how much downward pressure is necessary to cut through something)

Regarding knife choice, I like takamura and yoshikane. I only have a takamura in santoku so I can't comment about how flat their 210 gyuto runs but yoshi is generally flat from what I've seen. I have a used 240 and newer 210 and 180 I think. They're all thin and pretty flat. If you like large flat spots though, I'd think about a 240 or a nakiri if you're doing mostly veg. I've been meaning to try a nakiri myself.
 
beanbag said:
This is just a question about semantics / definitions, but how is a "midweight" a better cutter than laser?
Click to expand...
Because the Yoshikane specifically is very thin behind the cutting edge for the first 1-2cm, which has a big effect on cutting performance. The spine is not as thin as what people often refer to as a laser, but the grind at the edge is thinner than something like a Takamura.

The extra weight also makes it feel more substantial than a very light knife.
 
Yoshikane Nashijis all seem to be pretty thin. Some of the tsuchime are supposed to be thin, others are pretty hefty. All of them have very flat profiles.

Another thin option with a pretty flat profile is Sukenari.
 
Hello again,
Today I got in the mail a Yoshikane 180mm Santoku. (Although for Yoshikane, it's more like a short, tall gyuto) This was ordered last week because EE was out of the 210 gyuto, and I already had a Sukenari G3 k-tip 210mm. This knife has just the tiniest micro-bevel and the "big bevel" (or whatever you call it starting below the hammered pattern) is just barely conVEX on mine. Initial impressions of cutting performance are very good. My only complaint so far is that I feel the ridge on the handle is on the wrong side.
 
If you don't mind a k-tip, the Shibata knives have a flat profile and are lasery-like, maybe a bit over 200, but imho worth it.
 
I should add that the Tanaka Migaki from KnS is thinner and seems to have a flatter profile than the Tanaka Nashiji, so it might fit the bill.
 
Hello again guys,
I am trying and failing to get a Yoshikane 210 gyuto for mid 200's or under. If EE had it, I would get it. Any other sources in the US?
I already have the 180mm santoku, but now I want something a little bit longer and a tip that is "pointier". Still like the flat profile in the back, tho.
The Tanaka Migaki is only available in Blue 2, and I want fully or mostly stainless.
The Shibata Kashima 210mm gyuto is $290 so too much, and it might be too rounded in the back anyway.
The koutetsu versions only have a k tip, and I already have a k tip 210mm via Sukenari G3.
(Tanaka G3 out of stock at KnS anyway)
Maybe a Sukenari R2? How's the grind on those?
 
Sukenari grind is always the same up to any normal range of wiggle - and then some more of the same still. Very precise they are when you think of it. Asymmetrical but rather laserish so they escape giving most symmetrical sharpening and undifferentiated use - although not being lefty I’ll never know. Distal taper in K-tips/Gyuto is a tad more pronounced with shorter units from their usual thinner tip area grind with less length to play with. But none really has anything more interesting than say stamped Victorinox at best. They carry a decent flat spot in shorter units or K-tip 240mm but nothing extraordinary, a much more prominent one in 240mm+ Gyutos. Keep a very nice progressive belly with the rest. Very universal use all of them but I think they get their best shape in 240-270mm Gyutos if it's flat you're after. If shorter lengths and push cutting are more your style, I recently found 210mm K-tip to be quite a joyous all-around profile to them. And quite against my preliminary assessment of their offerings in that length and shape. I'd try one of their 190mm edge Santoku also. Another one to rebuff me first sight that I think more and more could work best for their grinds and shorter lengths.

Grind is lying quite a bit from a choil shot. Thinner BTE for most of the length but thicker very heel and very tip always. Good deal of grinding the heel area into the choil, but recent "studies" tend to show me that mostly the first 10mm up the edge is really ground thinner throughout. Then again none is nowhere thick enough overall to behave anything much else than laserish heavier-than-average midweights middle-of-the-road knives. Food release not especially wonderful but momentum helps. I think you primarily buy them for steel and HT, but probably there's one of their shape that will just suit you well - and make you keep it dearly for at least a good while.

My interpretation.
 
laser-ish with flat profile... how doesn't this thread have yoshikane gyuto / ktip written all over it?
 
I'll stand by @Jville Kashima while it's there. Yoshis of that length turned over expensive in a year for what they are, For the price one scores a Tsuchime SKD 240 if any available AND lucky. Meh..... And I wouldn't get lured into W#2 SS clad but it's not like it solves anything at 250$ USD max. The Kashima strictly is over budget, but little so and strikes all cords right to me here. Not even that much shorter out of Yoshi 240mm gambit. Much sexier than any Yoshi SKD the Kashima is at fitting demands better.

I'll be surprised if that Kashima isn't sold yet.
 
beanbag said:
240 is too long, and the kashimas don't seem to be all that flat in the back.
Click to expand...
Initially, I would of been inclined to agree with you, but I looked at mine for the heck of it. And I’d say this conflicts with your statement.
2C09FD5F-B7C7-4452-9F1E-AF4BAA890D8B.jpeg
036EF6FA-7958-448D-8FC2-6D87EB33A074.jpeg
 
I had the Kashima Sanjo from CC concurrently with an Amerikiri from KnS. One of our members (McMann?) did detailed measurements of each and the differences were noise. I had a slight preference for the Amerikiri (the handle mostly) and parted with the Kashima. Both excellent, close to laser, laserish performance. Embrace the flat.
 
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