Looking for my first Chefs Knive

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Scarfmace

Scarfmace

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
3
Location
Belgium
Hey Everybody,

I'm starting as a chef and I'm looking to buy my first knive set.

What I need is the following:


LOCATION
Belgium

KNIFE TYPE​
- a Chef's Knive


left handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Doesn't matter

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
min 20cm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
250€ for the Chef's knive


KNIFE USE
Home environment

Chopping and slicing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, trimming meats

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Crosschop - Rockchop - just the basics

I want a knive that performs well without to much maintenance. I need a good allrounder since I'm just starting out.

I'm must be simple, not to much logo's or different coulors, I like basic one coulored handles

Good comfort of course, I prefer my knives a little heavier

Ease of use is very important

I'm not accustomed to sharpening so I will make errors starting out.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
bamboo cutting board

Do you sharpen your own knives? Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? Yes



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Basic concept of what I will be doing is giving BBQ courses, focused on the correct use and prep of BBQ cuts like whole chickens, briskets and large pieces of beef. Vegetables chopped are for stews or side dishes and slicing fresh herbs. I will cook in the customers kitchen but with my own materials and cutting board. I want quality items that can last me a long time. I believe its better to pay once and use a long time.
 
If used for Bones I have not indput.

Kaeru might be for you
 
A member is offering this for sale: Gesshin uraku240mm stainless. Would that fit the bill?
 
Or maybe what you describe is two knives... Vant really rock chip with butchers
 
If you get anything from the States you pay very expensive shipping, import tax, your local VAT and handling costs.
 
Wüsthof seem to have abandoned their Le Cordon Bleu series. In fact, they can't use the name any longer, and have integrated them in their Classics. See the 4581 ones. There's a 23cm available IIRC.
Lighter by 30%, no fingerguard, tip a bit lower. Could be a serious option for a left-hander.
As with all Wüsthof, they come today — for marketing reasons — with a factory-edge the steel even can't take. Seen no one without a fat burr or wire edge. And a robust shoulder. After some work it becomes quite usable. Get a Naniwa Pro 400 or a Shapton Glass HR 320.
https://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt...-320-coarse-45-94-micron-slijpsteen-50301.htm

Another option would be a left-handed Misono or Masahiro, where geometry has been inverted to suit left-handers: left side convex, right face flat, edge off-centered to the right. Logo at other side. The Misonos are available with japanesechefsknife.com
Very serious and most helpful gentleman, Mr Iwahara, runs the shop. Koki at kencrest.us
Premium for the inverted version 15%. Flat rate World wide shipping $7. If Belgian customs officers are as scrupulous as some of their German or Swedish counterparts you pay, if they're like some Dutch and their attitude is more co-operative you're lucky.
With other retailers or origins you're sure to pay every cent.
As with far most knives, Misonos do require a good stone sharpening before use. They come with an overly convexed, weak factory edge you should in no way take as a reference. No big deal, it's little work and you'll find plenty experience here.
 
Okay, fine. I'll be the spoil sport. To meet your needs you don't need to go very crazy.

For trimming up brisket, beef, etc, you really don't need more than a butcher's/boning knife, and a cheap one isn't necessarily a bad thing here. Grab a Forschner or splurge and get a forschner with a rosewood handle for, like $25-$35. They will trim, breakdown birds, french ribs, and break down primal cuts just fine. They steel back easily as they are a softer metal and are easy to sharpen. You don't need complicated geometries here. Also, it's nice when you can tell your BBQ students that they don't need to spend a fortune on their supplies...

IN ADDITION to a boning knife, get yourself a chef knife. You can go Forschner as well, but you can also upgrade a bit. The Kaeru others have mentioned or the Misono is nice. Handedness doesn't really matter unless you're getting what is referred to as a "D-handle". The Blade geometry having a right or left hand bias is simply too much to worry about, I think. Most knives you're looking at won't have an edge bias at all.

My suggestion for a solid but budget chef knife would be the Misono Swedish Steel series. You can find them online from a bunch of places and they are a solid knife that has been around for years and years and years. They ARE carbon, so they'll patina and rust if you don't take care of them. But they sharpen easily and take a great edge and have a good geometry.
 
Yeah, if I were going to be teaching BBQ classes, whacking birds and chopping vegetables I would definitely use the Old Hickory. It looks the part (it's the same knife that the BBQ Pit Boys use on youtube), can take serious abuse, can take a nice edge, it's easy to sharpen, it's cheap AND it's not Made In China. Even the 12" is probably long enough for your needs. You don't need a fine blade to chop corn cobs in half and potatoes+carrots into stew-sized vegetable chunks, you need a workhorse. Last thing you want is to get embarassed in front of your students when your brittle Japanese knife looses a huge chunk out of the blade while chopping a chicken!

I keep an Old Hickory 12" out in the backyard next to my grill during the summer. Sometimes it even sits outside overnight in the rain. I think there are plenty of places that sell leather sheaths for these, should think about ordering one for myself.

As far as herbs go, use a pair of scissors.
 
For us people in Europe (the OP lives in Belgium) Forschner should be read as: Victorinox.
And yes, the Misono does have a very strong right bias. This isn't only relevant with D-shaped handles. Left face flat, right one convex, edge off-centered to the left. Used by a left-hander this makes food separation unexistant: everything will stick like glued to the left side.
That’s just the way Japanese make their knives.
 
Last edited:
Wow thank you guys so much for all the great feedback. To be honest I have been looking aswell and I think that currently this set should cover my basic needs

https://www.knivesandtools.be/nl/pt/-wusthof-starter-set-voor-koks-5-dlg.htm

Is this ok for starting out? @Benuser , you mentioned "As with all Wüsthof, they come today — for marketing reasons — with a factory-edge the steel even can't take. Seen no one without a fat burr or wire edge. And a robust shoulder." What does this mean?

If I get that Shapton Glass HR 320, I should be able to keep an edge on these knives?
 
320 sounds a bit aggressive, maybe a 1000 grit. IMO at least.
 
Scarfmace said:
Wow thank you guys so much for all the great feedback. To be honest I have been looking aswell and I think that currently this set should cover my basic needs

https://www.knivesandtools.be/nl/pt/-wusthof-starter-set-voor-koks-5-dlg.htm

Is this ok for starting out? @Benuser , you mentioned "As with all Wüsthof, they come today — for marketing reasons — with a factory-edge the steel even can't take. Seen no one without a fat burr or wire edge. And a robust shoulder." What does this mean?

If I get that Shapton Glass HR 320, I should be able to keep an edge on these knives?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't choose a set, for a very simple reason: you pay for what you don't use, and you don't get exactly what you want.
Consider just a chef's knife:
This one is quite a bit lighter, and has no fingerguard.
https://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-wusthof-classic-koksmes-20-cm-halfkrop.htm
The same is available in a longer version as well, 23cm is no bad idea.
Wüsthof and Zwilling both make a lot of advertising about how sharp their knives are. Now Wüsthof delivers with 13 degrees edges! Wow! But the steel is the same. Where the oldies had a strong convex man-made edge that ended at some 20 degrees per side. These edges aren't stable, even without use. Has to do with the steel's characteristics.
Exit factory edge.
Meanwhile, behind the edge, the Wüsthof still is very thick. They haven't machines that deliver proper convex edges, where the blade's face goes into the bevel in one continuous arc. The general public likes those pronounced bevels. The shoulder is where face and bevel meet. For a good working knife, one should at least ease it. It's an unnecessary barrier when you cut.
So, exit shoulder.
The Shapton Glass isn't all that aggressive. The grit is very regular. Use it with little pressure only and don't use it dry.
My next step would be a Naniwa Pro 800, AKA Chosera.
https://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-naniwa-professional-stone-p308.htm
The end result is to be compared to a 1200.
That is about the max with this type of steel, Messrs Krupp's 4116. Polishing is counterproductive here as is weakens the matrix and causes edge instability.
Exit polishing.
 
I second the recommendation to not buy a set. Do you really need a meat fork or a boning knife? If so, does it have to be a meat fork from Wüsthof? I have a meat fork and use it, but not very often. Given that, a $10 meat fork from K-Mart or some such would probably do the job equally well.

For soft steel knives, such as Wüsthof, a honing steel is useful. But I would seriously consider going with a Japanese knife made from harder steel instead. You'll get better edge retention and cutting performance that way. The finger guard on the Wüsthofs is a pain when it comes to sharpening. If you sharpen on a stone, you'll curse the finger guard in short order.

Don't use a honing steel with harder steels. You are more likely to do damage to the knives that way than making them sharper. Instead, put the money towards a sharpening stone. If you have only one stone, and your knives aren't super-dull, make it a 1000 grit. With some patience and care, it'll put a razor-sharp edge an pretty much anything, whether the steel is soft or hard.

So, there are at least two things in the set that you can probably do without: the meat fork and the honing steel. I suspect that, for the same 188 Euro, you can buy a Japanese chef's knife and a paring knife, with probably enough money left over to add a King KDS 1000/6000, and a cheap meat fork until you feel the need to splurge on a fancy one (which may be never).

There are a bunch of budget Japanese knives around that are better than the Wüsthofs. MAC comes to mind, and Tojiro DP. I'm sure more experienced members than me can provide more recommendations.

I honestly think you'd be better off with a good chef's knife, a parer, and a stone than yo would be with this set.
 
I must say that with the experience I've already had up to now, I can benefit from a boning knife and a vegetable knife, also the fact they are in a toolrol are easy. I don't own a meat fork right now and I don't realy need one, but if I buy all products seperatly, it becomes more expensive then the set price.

I do hear you about not buying wusthof because they have an edge that can not be kept so I should work it over to a 20° one, or maby buy another knife. Cuestion remains: wich one?

https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/pt/-miyabi-4000fc-gyutoh-chef-s-knife-24-cm-33951-241.htm

Is this something? Lets keep my options limited to what they sell on that site :)
 
That Miyabi looks like a good knife. It'll run rings around a Wüsthof, no doubt. (I own two Myabis, both of which are very nice knives, with excellent F&F.) I don't know whether, at that price, this is the biggest bang for the buck. But it's a quality knife, for sure.

As far as sets are concerned, the problem with them is that almost all people end up paying for something they don't need, or that's sub-optimal. As I said, if you go with a harder steel, you simply can't use a honing rod. What you really need for harder steel is a stone. So, why pay for a honing rod?

Your chef's knife is the knife you will use 90% of the time. So, it makes sense to put the largest part of your budget towards that. For less-often used knives, something cheap will do for quite some time. I'm pretty sure that you can pick up a Victorinox or Mercer boning knife for around USD 30 or so. These are not bad knives! Not as fancy as hand-made Japanese ones, but they get plenty sharp and work well. (There are meat workers and butchers who spend their entire working day with Victorinox or Mercer knives and wouldn't change them for anything.)

So, again, if you want the most enjoyment for your budget, I suggest to buy a really good chef's knife plus a stone. Then get a meat fork for $10 or less, a boning knife for $30, and a paring knife for whatever the remainder of your budget allows.
 
Last edited:
I suspect that the Miyabi is the better deal, especially considering the price difference.
 
Benuser said:
And yes, the Misono does have a very strong right bias.
Click to expand...

Benuser is indeed correct. It appears that from the factory the Misono comes with a 70/30 bias. Thanks for setting me and the OP straight! Apologies, OP.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top