Looking for the perfect gyuto

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

WickedansLazy

Member
Joined
May 9, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Virginia, USA
Hi guys,

As suggested, I'm going to make a post here to see if I could get some of your help in deciding which knife to get. I have a tight budget but, I want a knife that fits well my needs. I am a professional chef and I want a sturdy Japanese knife (it can be Western style but not German) and with all the offers it is really hard to tell.

I started considering something like the Tojiro DP (it seems a bit expensive for what it is) or Misono Swedish steel (afraid of the corrosion and care). However, after some research, it seems like the Masamoto VG adn Kanehide PS60 are good options as well. I also considered the Misono Moly and the Fujiwara FKM but they seem a bit too basic for what I need. What I want is a Gyuto around $100 to $180 that really holds an edge.

I appreciate if I can have your input so I can make the best decision within my budget.

Here's the questionnaire!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western handle or Wa handle. No preference really.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240 mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Stainless steel as I prefer less maintenance. I don't want to be worrying in case that a careless coworker grabs my knife. However, if it is a good deal for a carbon steel that I don't have to baby it would be a good option too.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional kitchen

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All around tasks. Slicing/chopping vegetables. Triming, slicing and cubing meats. Fileting small fish/ salmon filet. Nothing hard on bones, I have a couple debas for heavy duty.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
First gyuto that I will have. I've been using a lot of different knives for each task(petty, santoku, sujihiki, kodeba) but I want a gyuto to be my primary knife. I never had the money to buy a decent knife until now.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch and finger point grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
All
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I want an excellent knife. I reall want a knife with good edge retention above all. Hopefully it doesn't chip too much and it is easy (ish) to sharpen.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I really don't care about the looks. Something that doesn't hurt me too much if it happens to get scratched.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Good balance.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I do 6 services a week. Hopefully something that can hold edge until the end of the 6th service with only stropping required.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Whatever the restaurants have available. Usually rubber or synthetic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
At the moment only a 6000 grit or above stone
 

WickedansLazy

Member
Joined
May 9, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Virginia, USA
Hello again,

I am new to this place and I just realised I posted in the wrong thread and I can´t delete it now. Oops.

Well... since this is my introduction thread I just want to say hi, I am a fine dining chef and like all of you I love knives. I have a few Japanese knives, most of them are restored and without a name brand. I like restoring and sharpening them. I have a bit of everything and I don't like to buy super expensive knives, I am all about being efficient.

Hopefully I can learn a lot from you guys and get nice sugestions.

Cheers!
 

blokey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2021
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
1,740
Location
us
Kind curious why do you think Tojiro DP is expansive, they are not what I would recommend in their price point but I hardly think they are overpriced. For basic edge retention most over $100 knives will do nicely. I would consider Gesshin stainless wa-handle for a nice knife, good geometry and easy to sharpen.
 

timebard

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
531
Reaction score
1,301
Location
Utah
Hmmm... I haven't used this myself but by all accounts the Futana line is a pretty decent value for the money these days. If you're willing to go for a used knife and can wait for a good deal, you might be able to find something like an S. Tanaka ginsan or Kaeru stainless for $200, which would be a pretty good fit.

 

HansCaravan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Messages
103
Reaction score
173
Location
AWOL
Sounds like you should check out the MAC MBK-95. I believe it's AUS-8 hardened to ~60hrc. Very nice grind and performance for a kitchen workhorse.
 

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
8,253
Reaction score
2,949
Regarding edge retention the Deep Impact are the best I've ever used, even under harsh conditions. Aogami Super @64-65Rc core, soft stainless cladding. Despite the remarkable hardness no trace of brittleness. The 240 is a beast, the 210 a bantamweight. JCK Natures Deep Impact Series Gyuto (180mm to 240mm, 3 sizes)
Sold out for the moment. They are being made in small batches. Ask Mr Iwahara
koki at kencrest.us
 

Philip Yu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
Messages
104
Reaction score
163
Location
Portland
Takamura R2 could be in that price range. Maybe Chromax too. I think VG10 is in that price point.
 

blokey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2021
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
1,740
Location
us
Non pro Takamura only comes in 210mm tho, I wish they do 240mm.
 

jjlotti

"eat it or wear it"
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
73
Reaction score
80
Location
Richmond Virginia
Mac pro 9.5 is a great knife for a commercial kitchen(in your price range as well). All business, a knife that your bosses and peers will respect but won't give you any shine. Just be sure your parameters above are what you really want.....i.e. Don't buy a 200 bone knife if you think it is possible you will want a 300$ dollar knife 6 months from now. Save your money for that if it is the case.
 

tim huang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2021
Messages
81
Reaction score
50
Location
Sydney AUS
Hi guys,

As suggested, I'm going to make a post here to see if I could get some of your help in deciding which knife to get. I have a tight budget but, I want a knife that fits well my needs. I am a professional chef and I want a sturdy Japanese knife (it can be Western style but not German) and with all the offers it is really hard to tell.

I started considering something like the Tojiro DP (it seems a bit expensive for what it is) or Misono Swedish steel (afraid of the corrosion and care). However, after some research, it seems like the Masamoto VG adn Kanehide PS60 are good options as well. I also considered the Misono Moly and the Fujiwara FKM but they seem a bit too basic for what I need. What I want is a Gyuto around $100 to $180 that really holds an edge.

I appreciate if I can have your input so I can make the best decision within my budget.

Here's the questionnaire!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western handle or Wa handle. No preference really.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240 mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Stainless steel as I prefer less maintenance. I don't want to be worrying in case that a careless coworker grabs my knife. However, if it is a good deal for a carbon steel that I don't have to baby it would be a good option too.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional kitchen

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All around tasks. Slicing/chopping vegetables. Triming, slicing and cubing meats. Fileting small fish/ salmon filet. Nothing hard on bones, I have a couple debas for heavy duty.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
First gyuto that I will have. I've been using a lot of different knives for each task(petty, santoku, sujihiki, kodeba) but I want a gyuto to be my primary knife. I never had the money to buy a decent knife until now.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch and finger point grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
All
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I want an excellent knife. I reall want a knife with good edge retention above all. Hopefully it doesn't chip too much and it is easy (ish) to sharpen.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I really don't care about the looks. Something that doesn't hurt me too much if it happens to get scratched.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Good balance.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I do 6 services a week. Hopefully something that can hold edge until the end of the 6th service with only stropping required.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Whatever the restaurants have available. Usually rubber or synthetic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
At the moment only a 6000 grit or above stone
takamura chromax
 

calostro5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
75
Reaction score
25
Location
Spain
Why is it so difficult to find Takamura knives (at least in Europe)?
In almost all online shops they are out of stock.
I am looking for a gyuto r2 210 mm.
 
Joined
May 12, 2022
Messages
274
Reaction score
224
Location
ACT, Australia
Hi guys,

As suggested, I'm going to make a post here to see if I could get some of your help in deciding which knife to get. I have a tight budget but, I want a knife that fits well my needs. I am a professional chef and I want a sturdy Japanese knife (it can be Western style but not German) and with all the offers it is really hard to tell.

I started considering something like the Tojiro DP (it seems a bit expensive for what it is) or Misono Swedish steel (afraid of the corrosion and care). However, after some research, it seems like the Masamoto VG adn Kanehide PS60 are good options as well. I also considered the Misono Moly and the Fujiwara FKM but they seem a bit too basic for what I need. What I want is a Gyuto around $100 to $180 that really holds an edge.

I appreciate if I can have your input so I can make the best decision within my budget.

Here's the questionnaire!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western handle or Wa handle. No preference really.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240 mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Stainless steel as I prefer less maintenance. I don't want to be worrying in case that a careless coworker grabs my knife. However, if it is a good deal for a carbon steel that I don't have to baby it would be a good option too.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional kitchen

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All around tasks. Slicing/chopping vegetables. Triming, slicing and cubing meats. Fileting small fish/ salmon filet. Nothing hard on bones, I have a couple debas for heavy duty.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
First gyuto that I will have. I've been using a lot of different knives for each task(petty, santoku, sujihiki, kodeba) but I want a gyuto to be my primary knife. I never had the money to buy a decent knife until now.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch and finger point grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
All
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I want an excellent knife. I reall want a knife with good edge retention above all. Hopefully it doesn't chip too much and it is easy (ish) to sharpen.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I really don't care about the looks. Something that doesn't hurt me too much if it happens to get scratched.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Good balance.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I do 6 services a week. Hopefully something that can hold edge until the end of the 6th service with only stropping required.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Whatever the restaurants have available. Usually rubber or synthetic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
At the moment only a 6000 grit or above stone
If your budget is tight and maybe you interested in Tojiro knives, you can try Tojiro Zen black cobalt alloy Gyuto. VG10 core ss clad with wa burn chestnut handle which very comfortable to hold. 60 +/- Rockwell Hardness (HRC) with 9 to 12 degrees blade angle

San-mai cladded with 13-chrome stainless steel. Due to these factors, these knives achieve professional sharpness and are very easy to maintain.
The "Black Oxide" process, is a technology commonly used in medical devices

Price less than $200 (around $165-180.00 USD) for 240mm gyuto. Good for commercial use and comfortable handle (for me personally).
I didn't own one but I tried one of my friend's knife.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
124
Location
Kulmbach, Germany
Why is it so difficult to find Takamura knives (at least in Europe)?
In almost all online shops they are out of stock.
I am looking for a gyuto r2 210 mm.
I got mine a long time ago from the Netherlands but seems to be out of stock for a while now. The EU are the red headed step children of the knife world. I have been waiting on a tetsujin metal flow 240 for like 6 months now, it's painful.
 

calostro5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
75
Reaction score
25
Location
Spain
I got mine a long time ago from the Netherlands but seems to be out of stock for a while now. The EU are the red headed step children of the knife world. I have been waiting on a tetsujin metal flow 240 for like 6 months now, it's painful.
I don't understand the meaning of "the red headed step children".
I am interested on the r2 serie, and I have seen that in a shop of Netherlands (probably the same in which you bought your knife) had this knife. I will have to wait, but I don't understand this lack of stock in Europe.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
124
Location
Kulmbach, Germany
I don't understand the meaning of "the red headed step children".
I am interested on the r2 serie, and I have seen that in a shop of Netherlands (probably the same in which you bought your knife) had this knife. I will have to wait, but I don't understand this lack of stock in Europe.
It's a saying from the late 19th century basically meaning neglected or unwanted.

The Takamura was my first J knife last year but now probably my least used. I just found i really like taller profiles a lot better and well most of my knives are 230+ which i enjoy as well.
 

calostro5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
75
Reaction score
25
Location
Spain
It's a saying from the late 19th century basically meaning neglected or unwanted.

The Takamura was my first J knife last year but now probably my least used. I just found i really like taller profiles a lot better and well most of my knives are 230+ which i enjoy as well.
For a seller I think there are not unwanted buyers, so if a european shop want to buy Japanese knives, ¿why wouldn't want the manufacturer sell them to the european shops?

Usually I find 180mm comfortable to use, so 230+ would be too long for me. But taller profiles could be better. I have not put attention to it.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
124
Location
Kulmbach, Germany
For a seller I think there are not unwanted buyers, so if a european shop want to buy Japanese knives, ¿why wouldn't want the manufacturer sell them to the european shops?

Usually I find 180mm comfortable to use, so 230+ would be too long for me. But taller profiles could be better. I have not put attention to it.
Our market isn't as large as say the United States and that's why we are a lot lower on the list, look how often stuff is in stock there and then look at how often Europe has them. A lot of great knives always make it to the States and hardly ever here, if import/duties wouldn't be so darn pricy I would always just order from the states as stuff is just available there. It is just something we live with.
 

blokey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2021
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
1,740
Location
us
For a seller I think there are not unwanted buyers, so if a european shop want to buy Japanese knives, ¿why wouldn't want the manufacturer sell them to the european shops?

Usually I find 180mm comfortable to use, so 230+ would be too long for me. But taller profiles could be better. I have not put attention to it.
Europe is only lacking compare to North America and maybe Australia which is much closer to Japan. Compare to rest of the world you guys still have some of the better options.
 

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
8,253
Reaction score
2,949
They have become popular in a very short laps of time, and apparently they can't satisfy the increased demand. We're living a time with a generally booming demand after the sanitary crisis when all kind of supply chains were disrupted. Even big American retailers can't deliver for the moment.
 

Jovidah

Vocal amateur
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
2,713
Reaction score
2,422
Location
Netherlands
Yeah I think the whole knife J-knife market saw a massive boom during corona as a lot of people in the west sat at home with money to burn and no real way to spend it outside the house. The red handled Takamuras are one of the most obvious choices since they're one of the most affordable knives that cuts awesome out of the box, and still looks nice.
I think that 'extra demand' should level off a bit again as the corona thing dies down. Don't think supply chains issues have a huge impact on the knife situation; amount of resources required is trivial and it's a low weight, low volume item. It's simply supply constrained in the face of vastly increasing demand.
 

Delat

Dazed & Confused
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
2,461
Location
Phoenix
For a seller I think there are not unwanted buyers, so if a european shop want to buy Japanese knives, ¿why wouldn't want the manufacturer sell them to the european shops?

Usually I find 180mm comfortable to use, so 230+ would be too long for me. But taller profiles could be better. I have not put attention to it.

You have many amazing bladesmiths in Europe, though. The j-knife selection is a bit thin compared to the USA, but if you look at Western smiths there are no shortage of options.

Of my Western knives, I think I have one from a US smith and about 6 from Europeans with another 3 on the way.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
124
Location
Kulmbach, Germany
You have many amazing bladesmiths in Europe, though. The j-knife selection is a bit thin compared to the USA, but if you look at Western smiths there are no shortage of options.

Of my Western knives, I think I have one from a US smith and about 6 from Europeans with another 3 on the way.
That is true we do have a lot of beautiful custom makers but the states also has quite i few i am intrigued about or even some down there in Australia. But sometimes I just want a knife from a japanese smith and that's where it gets harder. My Tetsujin metal flow is an example of that or trying to find a Kotetsu Bunka which i might replace my Kyohei with.
 

Delat

Dazed & Confused
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
2,461
Location
Phoenix
That is true we do have a lot of beautiful custom makers but the states also has quite i few i am intrigued about or even some down there in Australia. But sometimes I just want a knife from a japanese smith and that's where it gets harder. My Tetsujin metal flow is an example of that or trying to find a Kotetsu Bunka which i might replace my Kyohei with.

There’s a kotetsu bunka on BST now at a great price, although I think in Canada. I actually asked Frederick Spare to basically make me a better looking version of my kotetsu bunka in damasteel - I love mine but it’s very plain looking and spine is a bit thin to hold.

I see you’re in Germany; Shir Knives there recently caught my interest - he’s doing some very impressive work.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
124
Location
Kulmbach, Germany
There’s a kotetsu bunka on BST now at a great price, although I think in Canada. I actually asked Frederick Spare to basically make me a better looking version of my kotetsu bunka in damasteel - I love mine but it’s very plain looking and spine is a bit thin to hold.

I see you’re in Germany; Shir Knives there recently caught my interest - he’s doing some very impressive work.
Yeah i saw the Kotetsu in BST and the only other place i found had the person that orders their knives pass away so they don't know what's going to go on.

I will look at Shir
 

calostro5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
75
Reaction score
25
Location
Spain
Europe is only lacking compare to North America and maybe Australia which is much closer to Japan. Compare to rest of the world you guys still have some of the better options.

Yes, probably it is easier buying knives for an european person than for an african person, but I see that the variety is lower than in North America.

They have become popular in a very short laps of time, and apparently they can't satisfy the increased demand. We're living a time with a generally booming demand after the sanitary crisis when all kind of supply chains were disrupted. Even big American retailers can't deliver for the moment.

I see it in some products, not only japanese products.

Yeah I think the whole knife J-knife market saw a massive boom during corona as a lot of people in the west sat at home with money to burn and no real way to spend it outside the house. The red handled Takamuras are one of the most obvious choices since they're one of the most affordable knives that cuts awesome out of the box, and still looks nice.
I think that 'extra demand' should level off a bit again as the corona thing dies down. Don't think supply chains issues have a huge impact on the knife situation; amount of resources required is trivial and it's a low weight, low volume item. It's simply supply constrained in the face of vastly increasing demand.

My money is burning my pocket lol. You are right, some people have saved money due to corona and now they can spend it. Moreover, some people have realized they can become ill or die and the saved money is left here.

You have many amazing bladesmiths in Europe, though. The j-knife selection is a bit thin compared to the USA, but if you look at Western smiths there are no shortage of options.

Of my Western knives, I think I have one from a US smith and about 6 from Europeans with another 3 on the way.
Sure, but the prices should be higher. An artisan knife is expensive and some of them are pieces of art. I want just a good knife for my kitchen. Even my cutting skills doesn't deserve knives so good.
 
Top