Looking to buy matching Santoku and Petty; aesthetics a priority

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by rstl87, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Oct 10, 2018 #1

    rstl87

    rstl87

    rstl87

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    LOCATION
    What country are you in?
    United States

    KNIFE TYPE
    What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
    Santoku and petty

    Are you right or left handed?
    Right

    Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
    Japanese

    What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or mm)?
    5-8" santoku, approx 3" petty

    Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
    Either stainless or stainless clad with carbon edge exposed

    What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
    $600 for both


    KNIFE USE
    Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
    Home

    What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
    Vegetables, mincing, slicing meats, occasionally breaking down poultry

    What knife, if any, are you replacing?

    Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
    Pinch grip

    What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
    Push cut, rock, slice

    What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
    High priority on aesthetics. Realized this is important to me.

    Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
    Something with character - iron clad, Damascus, tsuchime, etc. Wood handle, no preference on light or dark. Wa or D handle. Blenheim Knives and Takeda have really caught my eye but looking for other options as well.

    Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
    Prefer lighter. Rounded spine a plus.

    Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

    Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
    Med-high edge retention


    KNIFE MAINTENANCE
    Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) No

    Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) No

    If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, have stones, practicing on older knives.

    Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)


    SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  2. Oct 10, 2018 #2

    HRC_64

    HRC_64

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    couple of quick comments maybe here:

    1) should fill out the FULL questionaire as
    those Q's at the bottom are relevant
    at higher price brackets.

    2) $600 is throwing alot of money around (esp at a santoku)
    which is fine if you know /exactly/ what you want
    but see point No 1 above.
     
  3. Oct 10, 2018 #3

    Ochazuke

    Ochazuke

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    Gesshin Heiji.

    Edit - originally meant to say Gesshin Ginga, but Heiji might have both also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  4. Oct 10, 2018 #4

    rstl87

    rstl87

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    Thanks - I was having some issues posted earlier and meant to finish the responses. Updated my original post :)
     
  5. Oct 10, 2018 #5

    Nemo

    Nemo

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    A few more points:

    1) Are you sure you want a santoku? A short gyuto is probably a more versatile blade.
    2) You have asked for a stainless or stainless clad carbon knife, then later you suggest an iron cladding, which is the low carbon steel that Japanese smiths use in san-mai blades. definitely not stainless. Did you mean wrought iron? Kurochi (blacksmith finish)?
    3) Don't learn sharpening on Western stainless knives. They are harder to sharpen, frustrating to deburr and don't form a fine edge. You will get better faster sharpening a knife with better steel, especially if it is a carbon knife.
    4) 75mm (3") is a very short petty knife, more of a parer. Are you sure you want one this short?

    If you will be sharpening, I suggest you learn on a stainless clad carbon knife. By way of example, the ones I am familair with are Tanaka blue2 Najishi and Kurosaki Syousin Chiku. Both good knives. Happy to go into details of cutting performance if you wish. Tanaka Najishi has a fairly atteractive "pearskin" pattern (almost like a very fine hammered pattern), while the Kurosaki Syousin Chiku is available in Migaki (polished) or Kurochi. If you get it from KnS, the Tanaka has a nicely rounded spine and choil, as does the Migaki version of the Kurosaki (I believe that the KU version doesn't).

    Also look at Yoshikane Tsuchime. Mine is SKD (a semistainless steel) but it is available in white2. Nice finish on the blade, with rounded spine & choil. Basic handle. Well treated steel. Good cutting performance.

    If you won't be sharpening, you will want the best edge retention. Look for a PM stsinless steel. Look at Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi (KnS' Shinko Kurokumo version has upraded fit & finish and handle that you may like) and Gesshin Kagero. If you were happy with a beautiful Western handled knife, I would suggest Ryusen Blazen. Great cutter, beautiful fit and finish, almost perfect feeling of balance in the hand.
     
  6. Oct 11, 2018 at 5:18 AM #6

    rstl87

    rstl87

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  7. Oct 11, 2018 at 6:53 AM #7

    Nemo

    Nemo

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    I believe that wrought iron is also not stainless.

    Did you give the 270 Kurosaki a good go? When I was first getting into knives I thought that 240 seemed huge but it didn't take that long to get used to using a 240 then a 270. Now I reach straight for a 270 when doing a lot of prep. I am a pretty tall guy but I think lots of less tall people like a 270 as well.

    Yoshikane's heat treatment of SKD12 (Yoshikane just call it SKD) is great. It's almost carbon easy to sharpen, has good edge retention ans is functionally almost stainless (as long as you are sensible).Apparently they do a pretty good SLD (aka SKD11, confusingly) and white2 as well. Many of the Yoshis (including mine) are thicker knives with excellent food release (which I personally value highly), but there are reports of some thinner ones. Some have reported getting a thinner ones at Bernal (in Oakland) and others have reported getting a thicker one at Epicurean Edge (in Seattle). I guess you could head over to EE and see what they got.
     
  8. Oct 11, 2018 at 7:15 AM #8

    rstl87

    rstl87

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    I may not have given it a good enough go. Will consider another try.

    I have checked out the Yoshikane at EE and it does appear to be thicker. It was my second choice to an Akifusa in SS. I should have gone with the Yoshikane. Didn't realize that I would have regretted based on aesthetics...
     
  9. Oct 11, 2018 at 7:54 AM #9

    Nemo

    Nemo

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    Well, if you have an Akifusa, you have the reasonably thin knife covered. If you get a thicker grind Yoshi, you'll get a good appereciation of the tradeoff between thinness and food release. Thin- goes through hard tall food (say, sweet potato) easily but can get stuck in wet food (say, potato or zucchini). Good food release- can wedge in hard foods but demolishes piles of wet foods without breaking a sweat.
     
  10. Oct 12, 2018 at 1:05 AM #10

    rstl87

    rstl87

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    Did not know this - You learn something everyday. Thanks Nemo!
     
  11. Oct 12, 2018 at 1:24 AM #11

    Nemo

    Nemo

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    No problem.

    This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs that a good knifemaker is considering when making a knife.

    See Kippington's thread on assymetry

    https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/index.php?threads/33951/
     
  12. Oct 13, 2018 at 7:40 PM #12

    Lucretia

    Lucretia

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    If you have access to EE, you might want to check out their "Epicurean" line by Ryusen. They're western handles, but beautiful knives with excellent F&F. If you like them--WAIT. They usually go on a pretty good sale for Cyber Monday, which should get them down into your price range. The down side: They can be chippy--I don't know that I'd use them for breaking down poultry. That said, they're pretty easy to sharpen (and remove chips). And mine seem to be getting fewer chips over time. I've found regularly touching them up with a ceramic rod helps, too. They hold an edge for a really long time, too (which is good, since they're primarily the hubby's knives and he isn't the one who sharpens them.)
     
  13. Oct 14, 2018 at 9:43 AM #13

    fuzion

    fuzion

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    Speaking of r2 damascus knives, have you looked at knives by Saji or Mr Itou?
     
  14. Oct 15, 2018 at 5:53 AM #14

    Benuser

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    Consider changing your habits or technique. Rock-chopping is no good idea with thin, hard edges. And a santoku profile won't help either.
     
  15. Oct 16, 2018 at 5:48 PM #15

    rstl87

    rstl87

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    Thanks, Nemo.

    It seems like you like your Yoshikane. I came across the Anryu Blue #2 which also seems to have some fans and a similar look/performance to Yoshi. Do you have any experience with the Anryu or thoughts on how it would compare?
     

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