looking to buy my first japanese knife

[Delat]

I had this Shiro Kamo damascus in a 210 and it’s a solid performer. It’s a midweight convex, and won’t be dropping through food like a laser but it’s tough and has nice weight. I had to round the spine and choil on mine (super easy and quick to do), but I think K&S version might already come eased.

https://knivesandstones.us/collecti...urokumo-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo

For a knife on the thinner end that’ll give more of a “wow” cutting impression on first use, look at Yoshikane (in SKD for semi-stainless), Shibata in R2/SG2, or Myojin (either his moniker or other brands he works with). Those should all be available for under $400 or thereabouts.

 

[jedy617]

Also recommended shiro kama Damascus to a first time knife buyer and they really enjoyed it

 

[Delat]

No fan of Damascus here. They may look terrific, but make a simple sharpening with some maintenance thinning a huge job. Both faces need to be reworked with different grits of sandpaper, and reetched with aggressive chemicals.
Even without thinning they don't stay very pretty after six months of use.
In no way the Damascus contributes to performance. Generally, Damascus knives are thicker than others.

Doesn’t this apply to all knives though? Once you start scrubbing away with a coarse stone they’re all going to look like crapola unless you progress up to a finer grit.

Stainless damascus probably does need some serious chemicals but high carbon damascus can just be etched in coffee or vinegar. It also has not been my experience that damascus runs thicker than otherwise.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Doesn’t this apply to all knives though? Once you start scrubbing away with a coarse stone they’re all going to look like crapola unless you progress up to a finer grit.

Stainless damascus probably does need some serious chemicals but high carbon damascus can just be etched in coffee or vinegar. It also has not been my experience that damascus runs thicker than otherwise.

But it is a lot easier to blend and create a "new" finish on a non-Damascus blade.

 

[Benuser]

Stainless damascus probably does need some serious chemicals but high carbon damascus can just be etched in coffee or vinegar. It also has not been my experience that damascus runs thicker than otherwise.

The OP was initially looking for stainless damascus.

 

[Benuser]

Thinking a bit more, I'm kind of thinking about getting a 240 mm knife instead of 210. Not sure if that makes much of a difference.

With Japanese knives — either with Western handle or not — the difference is huge. In that respect very different from what e.g. Wüsthof does: the same handle, the blade a bit longer, changed balance and that's it. Perfectly common to see 210 and 240 with a very different character: the first being light, the latter a mid-heavy weight.

A point about VG-10 you should know. There are plenty poor treated VG-10 on the market. But even with the very best: the dulling curve is a special case. Coming crazy sharp fresh from the stones, losing this sharpness within one meal. What remains is an average sharpness that will stay almost forever.

SG2/R2 has a reputation of being a bit hard to sharpen. Some are, some are not. Have found this one, and was amazed by the easy sharpening with conventional stones and its remarkable edge retention. It does need a first stone sharpening prior to its first use.
https://japanesechefsknife.com/prod...al-kagayaki-r-2-clad-series-r2-210mm-8-2-inch

 

[aporigine]

Doesn’t this apply to all knives though? Once you start scrubbing away with a coarse stone they’re all going to look like crapola unless you progress up to a finer grit.

Stainless damascus probably does need some serious chemicals but high carbon damascus can just be etched in coffee or vinegar. It also has not been my experience that damascus runs thicker than otherwise.

I have a Yauji yanagiba with carbon Damascus over white 2. I’ve done a full job on the blade road using stones. The Damascus pattern is visible if subtle. I like it that way more than one enhanced by selective corrosion.

 

[Transmaster]

What is interesting is the last Japanese knife I purchased, a JCK Kagayaki CarboNext 145mm Honesuki boning knife. I bought it when I watched a YouTube of a Udon master preparing vegetables for the dashi he used with one. When I got it it was well-balanced but very heavy-duty, loved the long handle for the 145 mm blade length. It didn't seem like it would be good for vegetable prep. I was wrong; its action is like a Chinese cleaver. I watched the Udon Master and found I was using it on vegetables like he was.

 

[Benuser]

What is interesting is the last Japanese knife I purchased, a JCK Kagayaki CarboNext 145mm Honesuki boning knife. I bought it when I watched a YouTube of a Udon master preparing vegetables for the dashi he used with one. When I got it it was well-balanced but very heavy-duty, loved the long handle for the 145 mm blade length. It didn't seem like it would be good for vegetable prep. I was wrong; its action is like a Chinese cleaver. I watched the Udon Master and found I was using it on vegetables like he was.

Once you're used to asymmetric blades you indeed may easily cut straight with them.

 

[sowellfan]

Update: I ended up getting a Shigeki Tanaka gyuto with nashiji finish, 240 mm long, in ginsan steel. Ticks the boxes for being stainless, but maybe a little easier to sharpen than SG2 - also I like the aesthetic of the nashiji finish - and this knifemaker seems to have a fairly good rep on the boards. Final price was about $305.

I'm also getting a Shapton Pro 1000 grit to start learning sharpening. I've got a good leather strop already, will probably get some compounds for that soon.

In months to come I'll likely get a Petty knife, and probably a nice wood cutting board - but I still need to think on those some (not sure if I want to get end-grain or edge-grain, etc).

 

[Transmaster]

Update: I ended up getting a Shigeki Tanaka gyuto with nashiji finish, 240 mm long, in ginsan steel. Ticks the boxes for being stainless, but maybe a little easier to sharpen than SG2 - also I like the aesthetic of the nashiji finish - and this knifemaker seems to have a fairly good rep on the boards. Final price was about $305.

I'm also getting a Shapton Pro 1000 grit to start learning sharpening. I've got a good leather strop already, will probably get some compounds for that soon.

In months to come I'll likely get a Petty knife, and probably a nice wood cutting board - but I still need to think on those some (not sure if I want to get end-grain or edge-grain, etc).

Excellent choice

 

[Benuser]

Please remember the 1k is coarser than indicated: about 700 according to Japanese standards JIS. Nothing wrong with that, and certainly not for a first sharpening. I guess you will let it be followed by something in the 3k-range, a bit depending on the grain of your ginsang: finer grain, finer last stone, coarser grain, coarser finish. At least, that would be my approach, as I prefer to enhance properties rather than fighting them. Perhaps a Chosera 2k — end result 3k JIS —with a coarser Ginsang; a Shapton Glass 4k with a finer structure — the 'real' grit is slightly lower, or a Chosera 3k, leaving a 4k result. I should note that the SG4k requires very precise work and delivers an extraordinary exact straight edge. The Chosera 3k is more forgiving, probably leaving a slightly convexed result.

 

[Transmaster]

I mostly use a 500 Shapton Glass with a 2000 Shapton ceramic this seems to work for me.

 

[Benuser]

I mostly use a 500 Shapton Glass with a 2000 Shapton ceramic this seems to work for me.

The Shapton Pro 2k is very versatile stone. It allows an easy full deburring at a relatively low grit. Should have mentioned it.