Majime lost my business for life

[Matt Jacobs]

Just an FYI is anyone is interested. Majime knives has reached out and threatened legal action to at least 3 other knife makers via Instagram. I don't want to name them and make it worse but they are being fairly public about it. He is essentially saying that using a machine to mill out an S-grind, C-grind etc is exclusive to only him. The people he is calling out not only have different looking grinds but they have also been doing it longer. I can't believe someone in the the knife community would claim that an entire technique is theirs alone. It would be one thing if it was a copy but these aren't. I would be fine if he asked people not to copy his feather grind pattern but this is not what these other makers are doing.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Does he have an issued patent in the same country as the other makers and where the products are sold?

 

[ian]

@Kippington there is precedent! Hire some lawyers! Make some enemies! Get the profits you deserve!

 

[gentiscid]

No patent, no .

 

[Delat]

I saw a post referring to that and had a suspicion it was Majime. It takes a lot of hubris - I believe Scheepers were doing milling long before him, and at least one of the others he threatened.

I wonder if he actually got a patent for it? If no patent or copyright, then no leg to stand on.

 

[esoo]

Even if he got a patent, if it can be proved that others were doing the process before him, the patent can be invalidated by the prior art. The patent office is known for not being the most thorough in review.

 

[Jovidah]

If others have done it before and this can be proven he won't have a legal leg to stand on.

 

[gentiscid]

Sounds more like a personal thing with other smiths rather than claiming the technique as his invention.

 

[WPerry]

Haven't heard of this maker, but cursory google search shows that his feather grind is some ugly ish. Am I supposed to grate ginger on it or something? Maybe Chelsea Miller should have her lawyers go after him.

 

[DanielC]

Here we go. Just like Lin of Cold Steel tried to send out cease and desist letters to many of us for making and using the term "San Mai".

Its ******** and I am sad Majime decided to do that.

I've met him once when he stopped by my table at Bladeshow 2019 and recommended that I raise my prices at the time. I think he had 10k followers on IG back then.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Here we go. Just like Lin of Cold Steel tried to send out cease and desist letters to many of us for making and using the term "San Mai".

Its ******** and I am sad Majime decided to do that.

I've met him once when he stopped by my table at Bladeshow and recommended that I raise my prices at the time. I think he had 10k followers on IG back then.

There is no one in the knife industry like Lynn Thompson! The "san mai" thing was something indeed. He is his own biggest fan.

My time spent as a voyeur on the fringes of the custom knife world, it is readily apparent that makers tend to be tight knit and generous. Those that fall outside of that generally gain an appropriate reputation.

I can't imagine isolating myself from other makers, especially on some make-believe legal BS.

 

[DanielC]

There is no one in the knife industry like Lynn Thompson! The "san mai" thing was something indeed. He is his own biggest fan.

My time spent as a voyeur on the fringes of the custom knife world, it is readily apparent that makers tend to be tight knit and generous. Those that fall outside of that generally gain an appropriate reputation.

I can't imagine isolating myself from other makers, especially on some make-believe legal BS.

Me neither. He's a totally nice guy. A soft spoken gentleman. He might have a lawyer retained and they are perhaps recommending this. Idk.

His social media presence is massive now though. Like way beyond most other makers. It helps with his clientele. He likely has room to piss people off and go about his business.

 

[Delat]

Haven't heard of this maker, but cursory google search shows that his feather grind is some ugly ish. Am I supposed to grate ginger on it or something? Maybe Chelsea Miller should have her lawyers go after him.

I bought one out of curiousity. The food release is impressive but the actual edge grind was pretty terrible - I’ve done quite a bit of thinning work on it.

I’m so conflicted now - I’ve been planning to buy one of his regular knives for ages but now I don’t know if I can support him after this.

 

[gaijin]

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet. Heck, I'm not even american... but it would be fun to see the actual letters he sent out.

Being a patent troll is one thing, but being a non-patent troll is even worse.

 

[Delat]

Me neither. He's a totally nice guy. A soft spoken gentleman. He might have a lawyer retained and they are perhaps recommending this. Idk.

His social media presence is massive now though. Like way beyond most other makers. It helps with his clientele. He likely has room to piss people off and go about his business.

If he does have a patent or trademark/copyright, I believe legally you’re required to proactively protect it if you want to keep it. That’s why you see big global brands go after little guys for infringement all the time - if they don’t protect it then they lose it. I forget what specifically this applies to though: patent, copyright, or trademark since they’re each distinct.

 

[gaijin]

If he does have a patent or trademark/copyright, I believe legally you’re required to proactively protect it if you want to keep it. That’s why you see big global brands go after little guys for infringement all the time - if they don’t protect it then they lose it. I forget what specifically this applies to though: patent, copyright, or trademark since they’re each distinct.

Trademark, primarily, if my memory serves me right. Like "That generic 4x4 is not a Jeep".

 

[timebard]

Trademark, primarily, if my memory serves me right. Like "That generic 4x4 is not a Jeep".

Definitely copyright as well though, see Disney going after random fanfic writers for using their characters.

 

[DanielC]

If he does have a patent or trademark/copyright, I believe legally you’re required to proactively protect it if you want to keep it. That’s why you see big global brands go after little guys for infringement all the time - if they don’t protect it then they lose it. I forget what specifically this applies to though: patent, copyright, or trademark since they’re each distinct.

Ah. Well that means he had the audacity to patent an s-grind which is silly. I won't bang on a guy for being silly. I would if he were being silly and sent me a cease and desist letter though.

 

[RDalman]

That was a funny read. Jeeees some people

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Any links?

 

[Delat]

Any links?

 

[Corradobrit1]

LOL

 

[Jason183]

Is it even possible to patent the shape(either profile or grind) of the knife?Unless it’s specific copyright patterns right?

What if you patent the convex grind, so that basically means no body in the world can sell convex grind knives except him? Why ruin the fun for everyone.

 

[gaijin]

Is it even possible to patent the shape(either profile or grind) of the knife?Unless it’s specific copyright patterns right?

What if you patent the convex grind, so that basically means no body in the world can sell convex grind knives except him? Why ruin the fun for everyone.

Again, I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet.. but in my understanding...

For regular patents, they usually refer to a "method" or an "apparatus", meaning that it should be the way to produce the grind that is patented, or possibly that a knife with his specific grind is an "apparatus" of some sort.

There is also something called a "design patent" in America, which covers more how things appear. (Similar protections also exist in other parts of the world, sometimes under differet names)

But also note that patents are normally national, meaning that an American patent does not automatically apply in e.g. Germany - you have to apply separately for these patents. And it is gererally considered that the US patent office plays partly by different rules ("first to invent" rather than "first to file") and that the USPTO is more sloppy while the rest of the world is more strict. In the rest of the world the requirements to getting a patent are usually high in e.g. not patenting something that is already in use. In the US, it is said to be easier to get a patent in such cases and then the parties have to fight it out in court. And you Americans with your litigations and settlements thereby open the can of worms for "patent trolls", persons who file or buy dubious generic-sounding patents and then make a living by suing people and corporations and living off setttlements that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place..

But it doesn't say patent, it says "legally protected milling to create food release". Again, assuming Majime is American, and assuming they actually have some protection, the protection might not be valid for a German knifemaker.

One fun read was a few years back in a similar case when a cable manufacturer got a patent-related cease-and-desist-letter:

https://www.audioholics.com/news/blue-jeans-strikes-backhttps://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/
Edit to add: Look below at info from @HumbleHomeCook that explaines things where I was simply wrong...

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Again, I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet.. but in my understanding...

For regular patents, they usually refer to a "method" or an "apparatus", meaning that it should be the way to produce the grind that is patented, or possibly that a knife with his specific grind is an "apparatus" of some sort.

There is also something called a "design patent" in America, which covers more how things appear. (Similar protections also exist in other parts of the world, sometimes under differet names)

But also note that patents are normally national, meaning that an American patent does not automatically apply in e.g. Germany - you have to apply separately for these patents. And it is gererally considered that the US patent office plays partly by different rules ("first to invent" rather than "first to file") and that the USPTO is more sloppy while the rest of the world is more strict. In the rest of the world the requirements to getting a patent are usually high in e.g. not patenting something that is already in use. In the US, it is said to be easier to get a patent in such cases and then the parties have to fight it out in court. And you Americans with your litigations and settlements thereby open the can of worms for "patent trolls", persons who file or buy dubious generic-sounding patents and then make a living by suing people and corporations and living off setttlements that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place..

But it doesn't say patent, it says "legally protected milling to create food release". Again, assuming Majime is American, and assuming they actually have some protection, the protection might not be valid for a German knifemaker.

One fun read was a few years back in a similar case when a cable manufacturer got a patent-related cease-and-desist-letter:

https://www.audioholics.com/news/blue-jeans-strikes-backhttps://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/

I'm not a patent attorney either.

US Patents went to first to file quite some time ago. In my experience in being a patent recipient and filer, the US Patent Office is every bit as thorough and critical as any other authority.

Patents are only enforceable where the item is sold.

Genuine litigation to protect IP is perfectly legitimate.

 

[LostHighway]

The sad thing about patents is that not infrequently the company with deeper pockets can bleed the smaller guy to death in litigation even if the smaller company's patent is basically solid.

Majime has some interesting knives/approaches but even prior to this fracas I was a little wary based on how marketing driven Majime appeared to be. I guess this confirms my less than positive reaction.

 

[mengwong]

Other context, for those unfamiliar with Marshall TX:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/business/supreme-court-patent-trolls-tc-heartland-kraft.html

 

[HSC /// Knives]

Again, I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet.. but in my understanding...

For regular patents, they usually refer to a "method" or an "apparatus", meaning that it should be the way to produce the grind that is patented, or possibly that a knife with his specific grind is an "apparatus" of some sort.

There is also something called a "design patent" in America, which covers more how things appear. (Similar protections also exist in other parts of the world, sometimes under differet names)

But also note that patents are normally national, meaning that an American patent does not automatically apply in e.g. Germany - you have to apply separately for these patents. And it is gererally considered that the US patent office plays partly by different rules ("first to invent" rather than "first to file") and that the USPTO is more sloppy while the rest of the world is more strict. In the rest of the world the requirements to getting a patent are usually high in e.g. not patenting something that is already in use. In the US, it is said to be easier to get a patent in such cases and then the parties have to fight it out in court. And you Americans with your litigations and settlements thereby open the can of worms for "patent trolls", persons who file or buy dubious generic-sounding patents and then make a living by suing people and corporations and living off setttlements that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place..

But it doesn't say patent, it says "legally protected milling to create food release". Again, assuming Majime is American, and assuming they actually have some protection, the protection might not be valid for a German knifemaker.

One fun read was a few years back in a similar case when a cable manufacturer got a patent-related cease-and-desist-letter:

https://www.audioholics.com/news/blue-jeans-strikes-backhttps://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/

great response by Blue Jeans Kurt Denke, I learned a new word - vexatious

@esoo
Nathan Carothers vegetable knife milled from 2016

 

[gaijin]

I'm not a patent attorney either.

US Patents went to first to file quite some time ago. In my experience in being a patent recipient and filer, the US Patent Office is every bit as thorough and critical as any other authority.

Patents are only enforceable where the item is sold.

Genuine litigation to protect IP is perfectly legitimate.

Thank you, then I learned something today too. Sorry for spreading old information.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thank you, then I learned something today too. Sorry for spreading old information.

No worries. The US certainly used to be "first to invent". Even today, with first to file, lawyers being lawyers, can still try to find first to invent proof to bolster a litigation.