Maleham & Yeomans Cutlers Sheffield old Knife

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

gicasorzo

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
17
Location
United States
Hey guys, yesterday I found a really rusty carbon knife in a thrift recycling store. It was 100% covered by orange rust and had an strange shape.
Today I bought some sandpaper and rust eraser and started to remove that rust as much as I can.
It is an old Maleham & Yeomans. I did some research and they appear to be from 19th century, but there is not much information about them.
I don't know what to do with it. I don't know if I'd be able to remove more rust because the body of the knife is thin. Also, I'm new in the world of knives, sharpening and restoration.

Here are some pictures. I would really appreciate some advice.

PXL_20210806_214226918.jpg


PXL_20210806_214146292.jpg


PXL_20210806_214306149.jpg
 

McMan

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
2,301
The "VR" ("Victoria regina") indicates that it's Victorian (1837-1901).
According to the link below, Maleham and Yeomans adopted the mark with the cross+VM in 1884.
So, this would date the knife 1884-1901.

Here's some more info:

In terms of restoration, it'll never be pristine, but could be a fun carving knife. I'd hit it hard with some low grit sandpaper to knock down as mush of that pitting as possible and then move up to finer grits. 120-150-220-320-400... all the way up to 2000.
I'm not sure how to restore antler. Maybe just try some 0000 steel wool to get the gunk off and then some high grit sandpaper just to smooth a bit. I'm not sure if antler has a 'skin' that you don't want to go past.
 
Last edited:

gicasorzo

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
17
Location
United States
Wow! Thank you for all your help! It seems that this was a very lucky find. I will look for a good sandpaper set to start working on it. At the beginning I was thinking in re-doing the edge profile because it's very strange, however, it may be a bad idea considering it historic value.

Thanks again!
 

deltaplex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
84
Reaction score
5
Location
North of MSP
You'll certainly want to even out the wavy profile (after you're happy with cleaning it up) if you're planning on using it.
 

M1k3

¯\_(ツ)_/¯-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
6,160
Reaction score
8,708
You'll certainly want to even out the wavy profile (after you're happy with cleaning it up) if you're planning on using it.
The "wavy" part seems to be the spine.
 

McMan

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
2,301
It’s a false edge. A decoration as a sign of craftsmanship. Fell by the wayside by WWI. Perhaps (probably?) a stylized artifact of something that used to be functional earlier.

These old slicers were used to carve at the table so had different flourishes—engraved silver buttcap, filigree ferrule, false edge, etc, etc.

One of my favorites was a style made popular in SF. It had a crazy spine like a dorsal fin. I’ll try to dig up a pic…

edit—found a pic online…
1628343521357.jpeg


1628343563180.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
7,494
Reaction score
2,054
It’s a false edge. A decoration as a sign of craftsmanship. Fell by the wayside by WWI. Perhaps (probably?) a stylized artifact of something that used to be functional earlier.

These old slicers were used to carve at the table so had different flourishes—engraved silver buttcap, filigree ferrule, false edge, etc, etc.

One of my favorites was a style made popular in SF. It had a crazy spine like a dorsal fin. I’ll try to dig up a pic…

edit—found a pic online…
View attachment 137076

View attachment 137077
Here a false edge in a Robert Herder model from around 1910, contributing to a crazy sharp tip.
IMG_20210807_184712.jpg

 

Jovidah

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
1,267
Location
Netherlands
I've actually considered trying to make a spine edge like that on knives I use for trimming meat, but I never got around to it. Should theoretically make it easier to poke the tip in?
 

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
7,494
Reaction score
2,054
I've actually considered trying to make a spine edge like that on knives I use for trimming meat, but I never got around to it. Should theoretically make it easier to poke the tip in?
With this Herder there's some optical illusion. The tip is about 60°, not the less than 45° you would expect when looking at some distance. And the tip gets thicker and the bevel widens to make it less vulnerable.
IMG_20210807_224636.jpg

The only crazy thin tip I know with the Herders is the 1922 Tranchelard.
If you check any other tip with a loupe and sharpen it from the spine with 320-ish stone until the spine meets the bevel and all rounding is gone, I would say it is sharp enough for any application, even at 60-70°.
 

Jovidah

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
1,267
Location
Netherlands
Yeah even my K6M sadly doesn't really have much taper, so the tip is too chunky. It's a shame, as in all other aspects it is a virtually perfect meatknife. But I think I'm going to practise this first on a 10 euro knife... :D
 

gicasorzo

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
17
Location
United States
You'll certainly want to even out the wavy profile (after you're happy with cleaning it up) if you're planning on using it.
Yes, this will actually be a problem. I think that I will have to shorten the knife a bit to follow the profile, the wave is very pronounced.

Thank you guys for all the help and comments. I'm waiting for my shapton 320 whetstone to re-do the edge and profile. I will post a picture after is finished!
 

McMan

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
2,301
Yes, this will actually be a problem. I think that I will have to shorten the knife a bit to follow the profile, the wave is very pronounced.

Thank you guys for all the help and comments. I'm waiting for my shapton 320 whetstone to re-do the edge and profile. I will post a picture after is finished!
No need to flatten the profile. Instead, you can just add some recurve towards the heel. There's already a nice belly up front to pull along the board anyhow. Thankfully, this'll mean taking off less steel. But it'll also take more work since you'll need to use a file.
Something like this, though less extreme--
1628552650010.png
 

childermass

Supporting Member
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
1,360
Reaction score
1,537
Location
Vienna, Austria
Lots of good advice regarding the blade so I will just comment on the handle.
Don’t use any sandpaper on it or you will most likely abrade the skin on some parts and end up with white splotches all over the handle. Just clean it thoroughly with some soap and a soft brush. You can apply some beeswax (e.g. leather wax) afterwards and polish it a bit. It will preserve the rustic character and preserve the antler.
 

cotedupy

Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
2,697
Location
South Australia
I'm just going to be a bit contrary here, but...

I wouldn't bother with too much re-profiling personally. I've grown up with this kind of carving knife in the UK, and the way they get used it doesn't really matter about the profile because they don't really touch boards. Almost invariably they're hundreds of years old, usually with a matching fork, that get brought out only a couple of times a year (always on Christmas Day natch, then maybe a couple of other times if you've got all the fam round, or you're trying to impress people), and get used really just for carving the breast meat of roast poultry. At the table obviously, with elaborate steeling by the man of the house once everybody is sitting down.

My family wouldn't use theirs for slicing roast beef, lamb &c. and they have a different knife for carving ham. It also never gets sharpened - only steeled - generation after generation. Hence the authentically 'wavy' shape of your example.

Keep stupid English traditions alive! That's what I say ;).
 

Ericfg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
278
Reaction score
304
Location
SW Floriduh
Looks like a cutting edge?
View attachment 137072
It's not. The arrow points to the spine (top) of the blade. There's a term for what that bevel on the top of the spine; I can't remember what it is though: 'half-something' or 'reverse-something.' I noticed it on military swords and butcher's tools of that era. And I'm pretty sure it's got that upper bevel on just one side of the face.
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
1,194
Location
Hawaii
I used to cherry pic 1800's carbon carving sets on eBay. Clean them up & sharpen sell on bst.
Look for ones not worn down patina ok but not too much rust. Carving sets made in 1800's were thin you can put Avery good edge on them. Real stag handles. Beautiful sterling silver collars.
20th century more stainless fake stag handles.
One of the sets restored getting harder to find nice ones.
IMG_20210918_174801949_HDR.jpg
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
1,194
Location
Hawaii
When bought this blade had dark patina but almost no putting. Still not up to my standards
to put on BST because had these nicks along the blade I figured from wild steeling. Many of these knives were only honed on steels, those are ones look for because not worn down.

I've used this blade for years on turkey day at my nieces house. I always have carving duties
& making gravy from drippings.
 

Attachments

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
1,194
Location
Hawaii
Hey guys, yesterday I found a really rusty carbon knife in a thrift recycling store. It was 100% covered by orange rust and had an strange shape.
Today I bought some sandpaper and rust eraser and started to remove that rust as much as I can.
It is an old Maleham & Yeomans. I did some research and they appear to be from 19th century, but there is not much information about them.
I don't know what to do with it. I don't know if I'd be able to remove more rust because the body of the knife is thin. Also, I'm new in the world of knives, sharpening and restoration.

Here are some pictures. I would really appreciate some advice.

View attachment 136996

View attachment 136997

View attachment 136998
Your blade has pitting from rust. You can leave it or take it down some with sandpaper. You can't get it all out without removing a lot of steel. Also it would wipe out the makers mark.

This one has been deformed over time from sharpening on a stone. You can still get it sharp on the stones. It's not worth changing blade geometry just put a good edge on it see how it cuts.
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
1,194
Location
Hawaii
Checked out 1800's stag handles carving sets on ebay.
Most are early 20th century crappy stainless, not the stainless of today. Bake light plastic fake stag handles.

It's hard to find nice ones from 1800's many are too rusted or uneven blade roads from stone sharpening.

Some nice ones asking too much money for me to resell & make any coin, I enjoy fixing up old quality stuff. Found one started cleaning it up
Got it for good price.
IMG_20210922_133223088.jpg

As it came in today.
Started sanding.
IMG_20210922_183716493_HDR.jpg

IMG_20210922_183752101_HDR.jpg


Putnam Cutlery Co. With cannon & stack of cannon balls. Company started in 1886 with
5,000 capital they were bought at turn of century 1901.

Trick is to get scratches & rust out without hurting logo on this nice over 120 year old blade. Must be done by hand can't use my belt
sander.
 

mrs_adm

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
Location
New York
When bought this blade had dark patina but almost no putting. Still not up to my standards
to put on BST because had these nicks along the blade I figured from wild steeling. Many of these knives were only honed on steels, those are ones look for because not worn down.

I've used this blade for years on turkey day at my nieces house. I always have carving duties
& making gravy from drippings.
Wondering what BST is?
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
1,194
Location
Hawaii
Finished the knife today.
IMG_20210923_133403861.jpg

IMG_20210923_133509594.jpg

IMG_20210923_133650177.jpg

Backside of knife able to remove shallow pitting.
IMG_20210923_133628687.jpg

Front side with logo unable to remove all of deeper pits. I could only do that with power sander that much steel off change profile of knife. I did reduce them though. It's a trade off
Blade has such a nice logo.

After all that sanding had to establish a bevel on it. Started with 400 grit, followed with King hyper
1K, thinning bevel then raised spine got even burr both sides. Finished on gesshin 4k soaker.
It's very sharp ready to carve bird.
 
Top