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I wonder if it would be reasonable if there were a BST rule that a WTS thread must include what the seller paid for the knife or how much they're "in for", e.g.:

WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya, paid $340 new, offered for $310

or

WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya & custom koa handle, paid $340 new + $125 rehandle, offered for $700

...the point being not so much to address whether price-to-market is fair or desirable here, but to at least provide a bare minimum disclosure of price discount or markup for potential buyers. Questions of damage, poor geometry, etc. still remain of course, caveat emptor, ...

Thoughts?
 
Ripping people off on any used knife is pitiful no matter the demand...go rip people off on ebay instead of this community.

Hi,

I'm late to this party, and I have no stake in this, but how do we define "ripping off" exactly? It seems to me that if someone honestly advertises (i.e. accurate description of of use history and condition) a knife for any price and someone pays that price, then no one was "ripped off." The Fujiyamas and the Masamotos seem to be getting the flak in this thread, and I understand why, but I just saw a Kato Paring sell for $290 this week. That's two and a half times what I paid for one a short time ago. That would be like a 240 KS Gyuto going for $750. Yet, the market sustains that.

I would love to see a community that does not operate by market realities, but how could such a thing even be created? Imagine a little virtual world here where we had "no-ripping-off guidelines" that set certain standards like "no knife to be sold for more than its new price" or something of the like. Do you think that a Kato, Shig, KS, or Fujiyama would ever even appear in the FS board? If we can't create a virtual buy and sell utopia here, then market forces are the next best thing, and asking a price that someone else is willing to pay doesn't seem like ripping off to me.
 
I wonder if it would be reasonable if there were a BST rule that a WTS thread must include what the seller paid for the knife or how much they're "in for", e.g.:

WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya, paid $340 new, offered for $310

or

WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya & custom koa handle, paid $340 new + $125 rehandle, offered for $700

...the point being not so much to address whether price-to-market is fair or desirable here, but to at least provide a bare minimum disclosure of price discount or markup for potential buyers. Questions of damage, poor geometry, etc. still remain of course, caveat emptor, ...

Thoughts?

I think it brings into play information that is (1) not particularly relevant yet might influence sales and (2) information that could be impossible to define and verify.

(1) Is it relevant if I was given the knife as a gift by a family member, bought it used at 50% retail, or bought it new at retail? Would we want that information to impact an offer made on the knife? Presumably, the person who bought it used would receive lower offers than the one who bought it new, but there is no difference between the knives for sale.

(2) Then there are issues related to defining the information: What if there was a trade. For example, what if I got the knife I'm selling as part of a deal where I I received two used knives and $75 cash in exchange for one knife that I traded away? How in the world would I assign my paid-for price to a resale of one of those blades? Furthermore, if I by a knife for a given price and send it off to be rehandled and thinned, I could list those prices, but what if I did it myself. There is added value there and actual cost, but putting a real number to that cost would be nearly impossible.

Frankly, I see too many issue to make such a thing work. It's an interesting notion, but I think it's impractical.
 
I think it brings into play information that is (1) not particularly relevant yet might influence sales and (2) information that could be impossible to define and verify.

(1) Is it relevant if I was given the knife as a gift by a family member, bought it used at 50% retail, or bought it new at retail? Would we want that information to impact an offer made on the knife? Presumably, the person who bought it used would receive lower offers than the one who bought it new, but there is no difference between the knives for sale.

(2) Then there are issues related to defining the information: What if there was a trade. For example, what if I got the knife I'm selling as part of a deal where I I received two used knives and $75 cash in exchange for one knife that I traded away? How in the world would I assign my paid-for price to a resale of one of those blades? Furthermore, if I by a knife for a given price and send it off to be rehandled and thinned, I could list those prices, but what if I did it myself. There is added value there and actual cost, but putting a real number to that cost would be nearly impossible.

Frankly, I see too many issue to make such a thing work. It's an interesting notion, but I think it's impractical.

Yes - you bring up some valid difficulties (trades vs cash, new vs used, bought on special sale at vendor, gift, value of seller's time to polish/thin/rehandle, etc.) and probably impossible or too time-consuming to attempt to verify. Still, this is a frequent sore subject here and I think some constructive discussion on how to add more transparency to the BST could be beneficial. Personally, I've paid 3x original price for a collectible item I coveted - but I did my homework and knew what I was doing. Was the seller scrupulous? With more transparency, the "scrupulous" question may not have to be answered, but at least we've put a stake in the ground to assist educating buyers.

I appreciate your thoughts :thumbsup: and would like to hear from some other folks, too! (Maybe this deserves a dedicated thread...or maybe not. What do I know?? :scratchhead: :))
 
Free and open market... People can sell items for whatever they wish. No one is forced to buy anything they deem overpriced, and value is subjective. I personally don't care for the recent trend of flipping, but it is what it is.
 
I think the issue was one member being critical of another then doing the same thing that they had been critical of.
 
I had a chance to buy the same Fujiyamas when they were instock at Tosho for $500-550 and passed on them as there’s a lot of stuff I like more for the price, the idea that someone is trying to sell them for a terrific markup is laughable(basically Sakai honyaki prices).I don’t really care if Fujiyama (forum member) wants to rip people off, but he should probably try to be less hypocritical with regard to his comments in the future.
 
Personally, I've paid 3x original price for a collectible item I coveted - but I did my homework and knew what I was doing.

I think you answered your own question and premise. The need to protect the public from themselves is a popular theme these days. Adults buying luxury items are in no danger of being hurt and should be responsible for their own decisions. Doing anything else is disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical. Everyone on the forum is capable of doing their homework and know what they are doing, no need for hand holding. If I don't like the price of an item I don't buy it. We see it all the time on BST, some items sell out in minutes some need price adjustment to sell, there is no issue if the item is accurately represented.

I agree with labor though, don't call people out and then turn around and do the same thing when it works for you.
 
Everyone chill out. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them spend their hard earned cash on a so-so knife that was popular a decade ago for its low price tag and European feel.

It's a free world (no matter what people try and tell you) do as you please and let people do their thing as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
 
I think the main problem here is that he admitted to deliberately buying more of them (for example 4 KS gyutos) with no other intent than selling them. He's essentially helping create the market conditions that he's intending to exploit. Whether you call it 'free market' or 'profiteering' may be in the eye of the beholder, but I think all can agree that it aims to benefit from this community more than it benefits to this community...
With such a clear and deliberate eintent to turn a profit on sales you could argue he should apply for vendor status or GTFO.
 
Even if someone is THAT into shiraki, it makes more sense to buy one of his knives that retail for $1200, not pay $1200 for one of his knives that retail for $530 for $1200. Whatever, let people make their own decisions I guess.
 
Even if someone is THAT into shiraki, it makes more sense to buy one of his knives that retail for $1200, not pay $1200 for one of his knives that retail for $530 for $1200. Whatever, let people make their own decisions I guess.
Not your place to make that call for someone else unfortunately.
 
I can make whatever points I feel like making though. That’s the point. This is a forum.
By that logic the individual you're pursuing as unethical is within his rights as a forum user to do as he pleases..where does that leave you?
 
Just saying that all these posts about people's classified prices are just hot air.
 
Supply and command.
This, coupled with the fact that there are no clear forum rules regarding pricing and volume of sales in the classifieds...so people whining about it is the same as the local elderly man yelling at the clouds, it makes them feel good, but it changes nothing to anyone.
 
By that logic the individual you're pursuing as unethical is within his rights as a forum user to do as he pleases..where does that leave you?

That’s the exact point. Where does that leave me? Right here pointing out hypocrisy. If people are allowed to charge whatever they want for knives and there’s people foolish enough to buy knives at inflated prices then in the same breath people will be around pointing how lame Fujiyama is(forum member). Ofcourse he can do what he wants, that isn’t debatable.
 
Everyone chill out. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them spend their hard earned cash on a so-so knife that was popular a decade ago for its low price tag and European feel.

It's a free world (no matter what people try and tell you) do as you please and let people do their thing as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

I think the point was more along the lines of hypocrisy than the act of flipping itself. Not only once but a few times it has been said that 'flipping' was wrong only for the same people making the claims to do it themselves. Not unique to one individual either.

I really don't care who sells what tbh.
 
This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...
 
This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...

Truth.

The hypocrisy is obvious, and IMHO is definitely in bad taste. Calling it out / thread crapping is also in bad taste. (Just my opinion here)

Seems like a lose-lose situation, regardless of the ethics.
 
Pete,
I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or “thread crapping”. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.
Fujiyama, I’m curious why it bothers you that some people are selling KS $200 above retail(master Andre is the only member I can think of that did this) and yet you yourself have no problems attempting to sell konosuke Fujiyamas for nearly $500 above retail?
How do you justify that?
 
This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...

As naive as it may be, I agree. It's been slightly saddening to see a gradual slippage into an increasing culture of hyping, flipping, hoarding and profiteering whilst at the same time a (linked) increase in misinformation/conjecture and a louder neophyte minority.
 
Labour bought and sold some KS at fair prices in BST,
so his actions speaks louder than others
 
Pete,
I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or “thread crapping”. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.

I agree with you Craig, it is a valid point you are making and yes the hypocrisy stinks something nasty.

What I am trying to say is that calling it out (this thread is titled "Masamoto KS 240mm Gyuto KS3124 Available Soon", not "Hypocrites in BST/on KKF" or whatnot and therefore off-topic comments could be seen or thought of as "thread crapping") doesn't serve any purpose other than to inflame and exacerbate the negativity, instead of lessening it or bettering things.

The good folks here all see things for what they are, and the not-so-good folks couldn't care less.

I respect your drive towards justice and fairness, its too bad more people don't/can't/won't adhere to the same standards as you and the other good folks on KKF who are the core of this wonderful community.
 
I think you answered your own question and premise. The need to protect the public from themselves is a popular theme these days. Adults buying luxury items are in no danger of being hurt and should be responsible for their own decisions. Doing anything else is disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical. Everyone on the forum is capable of doing their homework and know what they are doing, no need for hand holding. If I don't like the price of an item I don't buy it. We see it all the time on BST, some items sell out in minutes some need price adjustment to sell, there is no issue if the item is accurately represented...

You may be right about all this. My suggestions can be off-base when I let my disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical side do the thinkin' :groucho:
 
Pete,
I see your position. I really do. But I was responding to post in this thread that is pertinent to the KS. My response is somewhat pertinent to the KS. I can’t help it if others deviate from KS discussion 😀.
 
Pete,
I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or “thread crapping”. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.

Major +1, im also curious
 
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