Massdrop for KKF?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

Massdrop for KKF?

  • Yes

    Votes: 96 86.5%
  • No

    Votes: 15 13.5%

  • Total voters
    111

RDalman

Seniör Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
2,140
Reaction score
2,959
Location
Sweden
Sorry for the double posting, but I feel I need to separate the tax topic from the other questions I have.

What's not entirely clear to me, is whether we need to wait until @RDalman pm's us after we've sent a pm to @nakiriknaifuwaifu, or that we need to pm Robin our names.

"Robin will PM when everything is ready." can be interpreted in multiple ways.
You can send us both a pm already 👌
 

nakiriknaifuwaifu

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
834
Reaction score
2,019
Location
Atlanta
@0x0x thanks for noticing the tags were missing. I've added them again.

Yes please send BOTH Robin and myself PMs. CC'ing both of us would be easiest.

BOOOOOOOOOO

where is the hamon huhhhh
too bad you don't have a hamon huuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh

get your non-massdrop non-honyaki gyuto outta this thread
bleh

just kidding doc ily
 

F-Flash

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
728
Reaction score
443
Location
Finland
I think another way to get around paying VAT would be if the payment/s come from US address based PayPal. Or that is what I believe and have discussed with quite a few knifemakers in EU. (and yes, I hate paying Vat).

Does someone really care where you ship the knives if you can prove payment came from US and thus you don't need to pay VAT?

I might be totally wrong too. And doing this would be 100% wrong too. 😁
 

Michi

I'm having a status just so I don't have no status
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
3,725
Reaction score
5,805
Location
Brisbane, Australia
My understanding is that if the vendor ships to outside th EU, no VAT needs to be charged.
 

F-Flash

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
728
Reaction score
443
Location
Finland
My understanding is that if the vendor ships to outside th EU, no VAT needs to be charged.
But does anyone follow where when who ships what, or do they just follow where the money comes from?
 

big_adventure

What impulse control?
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Messages
890
Reaction score
1,205
Location
Paris
It's just a declaration by the seller. VAT is typically paid by the last "buyer" in the chain - if they are all in the EU. So, Robin buys steel from somewhere, and they charge him VAT, but he then sells the knife and charges the buyer VAT. If he paid 10 euros VAT for the steel, and received 100 euros VAT on the sale, he'd actually owe 90 euros to the government net, because he'd get a credit for VAT he's paid. The same thing if he buys lunch for a client, or a new computer, or a new stone for sharpening his knives: he'd pay VAT, but he'd take a credit against VAT he owes the government when charging it from his clients.

If the destination of the product or the service is outside of the country or the EU, then VAT is generally not charged. So if my friend in Colorado buys a knife from Robin, Robin won't charge him VAT, and won't owe the government VAT for that sale. However, there will likely be import duties, usage tax, and such when the blade arrives in the states. Those are not charged by Robin, however, but by the entity handling the arrival in the States.

Those import costs are probably higher than VAT, in most cases. OTOH, if you are shipping one item at a time or few, and you don't declare them as commercial goods, you will likely not be charged. That is generally illegal, however.
 

daddy yo yo

Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
2,296
Reaction score
1,581
You like the bog oak? I think that the natural-colored handels are really sweet.
Well, I’d go as far as saying that natural, light-coloured wood is what we expect from Robin. I’d say it’s what we think of when we have a „Scandinavian“ handle. I think we could call it Robin‘s signature handles.

However, I really enjoy the unexpected. Bog oak with brass or copper pins is absolutely gorgeous!!!
 

DrEriksson

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
268
Reaction score
617
Location
Sweden
Well, I’d go as far as saying that natural, light-coloured wood is what we expect from Robin. I’d say it’s what we think of when we have a „Scandinavian“ handle. I think we could call it Robin‘s signature handles.

However, I really enjoy the unexpected. Bog oak with brass or copper pins is absolutely gorgeous!!!
I'm fully on board. Just so happens that I have a few dark handels from Robin. I'm choosing to see it as there is a need for something bright as well. For balance. Yin and yang. Night and day. Good and evil.
 

MarcelNL

professional blame taker
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
966
Reaction score
890
On topic of vat and customs avoidance; someone somewhere would be breaking the law for that to happen, and noone want to do that 😀
It's just a declaration by the seller. VAT is typically paid by the last "buyer" in the chain - if they are all in the EU. So, Robin buys steel from somewhere, and they charge him VAT, but he then sells the knife and charges the buyer VAT. If he paid 10 euros VAT for the steel, and received 100 euros VAT on the sale, he'd actually owe 90 euros to the government net, because he'd get a credit for VAT he's paid. The same thing if he buys lunch for a client, or a new computer, or a new stone for sharpening his knives: he'd pay VAT, but he'd take a credit against VAT he owes the government when charging it from his clients.

If the destination of the product or the service is outside of the country or the EU, then VAT is generally not charged. So if my friend in Colorado buys a knife from Robin, Robin won't charge him VAT, and won't owe the government VAT for that sale. However, there will likely be import duties, usage tax, and such when the blade arrives in the states. Those are not charged by Robin, however, but by the entity handling the arrival in the States.

Those import costs are probably higher than VAT, in most cases. OTOH, if you are shipping one item at a time or few, and you don't declare them as commercial goods, you will likely not be charged. That is generally illegal, however.
That is also how I know EU VAT to work, the major risk of not having the customer pay VAT would be for the seller... during a tax audit, when men in black go through your books and find traces of sales for which VAT is due but not paid. I suspect that in Sweden tax auditors are of the same breed as in Holland...no sense of humor, so they add a fine. Typically when you are registered as 'business' it's not a question if they find out, but when.

The import duties are the responsibility of the buyer UNLESS the Invoice is showing one of the incoterms indicating these cost are carried by the seller. Incoterms are international and make it explicit if buyer or seller pay shipping, carry risk, pay import duties etc.
 

DrEriksson

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
268
Reaction score
617
Location
Sweden
That is also how I know EU VAT to work, the major risk of not having the customer pay VAT would be for the seller... during a tax audit, when men in black go through your books and find traces of sales for which VAT is due but not paid. I suspect that in Sweden tax auditors are of the same breed as in Holland...no sense of humor, so they add a fine. Typically when you are registered as 'business' it's not a question if they find out, but when.

The import duties are the responsibility of the buyer UNLESS the Invoice is showing one of the incoterms indicating these cost are carried by the seller. Incoterms are international and make it explicit if buyer or seller pay shipping, carry risk, pay import duties etc.
VAT is paid according to the destination principle, which means that VAT is to be paid in the region where the goods in consumed. Within the European Union, the union is considered to be the same region. As such, we pay the VAT that applies in the country where we buy. As such, we can pay different VAT rates, depending on what country we buy from. If we import from another region, such as the US, we are responsible to pay VAT in our region, when the product enters the EU. Likewise, if you buy from EU to the US, you don't pay EU VAT, but you declare VAT when you import.

Switzerland is not part of the EU, but might be part of different VAT regions and collaborations. This is, however, where my knowledge stops.
 
Top