Misconception about Kitchen Knives

[ThEoRy]

 

[bieniek]

I tend to see a common misconception regarding bacteria. People tend to greatly overestimate the strength and longevity of common bacteria. Particularly regarding food and kitchen environments. Most bacteria can be killed with either 20 seconds of contact with mild soap and water or applying alcohol and allowing it to air dry. The water temperature doesn't even really mater either. I know vinegar is effective but I don't the the studies on strength and contact time. I'm pretty sure that bacteria getting inside the handle is the least of a cooks worries (compared to spoiled food getting on the plate).

So you mean like you just touch the soap and you hands are clean? Bollocks. What about under your fingernails?

And bieniek, I don't know exactly what you meant by scrubbing your handles, my guess would be a sponge, but if you are using a stiff and aggressive abrasive material, then I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you may be wasting your time.

I meant scourer.
Bollocks.

It is clearly an epidemic of people watching way too much anime and martial arts cinema.

LOL.

 

[jimbob]

It is a common misconception that you will have any spare money after venturing into this forum.

 

[Crothcipt]

It is a common misconception that you will have any spare money after venturing into this forum.

Dam we just went to saying "Welcome" instead of that warning.

 

[K-Fed]

It is a common misconception that you will have any spare money after venturing into this forum.

+1 ain't that the truth. Love every moment though.

 

[maxim]

One of the many misconceptions that gets to me is when people start talking about the soul of a knife. Saying this process gives the knife soul or doesn't. It is clearly an epidemic of people watching way too much anime and martial arts cinema.

I dont think that anyone that taking about soul actually mean that knife have soul
But rather that knife is hand made and unique not mass produced, one of the kind etc.
it can also mean that knife maker have long history behind him with many generations of knife, sword making.
Instead of explaining all that people say knife have soul, you can call it something els if you wish.

 

[El Pescador]

Myth: You have to spend a bunch of money to get a great knife.
Truth: Morey money give you more options, not all of them are good!

 

[Vladimir]

I dont think that anyone that taking about soul actually mean that knife have soul
But rather that knife is hand made and unique not mass produced, one of the kind etc.
it can also mean that knife maker have long history behind him with many generations of knife, sword making.
Instead of explaining all that people say knife have soul, you can call it something els if you wish.

+1000000000
I think that is the soul of the knife but not in the literal sense, of course. but it gives heat to the hands of the master, the love that he put into his knife.
more appropriate name-aura
have cold things, and there is a warm
knife forged it is warm and the film industry is not to blame

 

[El Pescador]

+1000000000
I think that is the soul of the knife but not in the literal sense, of course. but it gives heat to the hands of the master, the love that he put into his knife.
more appropriate name-aura
have cold things, and there is a warm
knife forged it is warm and the film industry is not to blame

Whatever gets you through the night...

 

[ThEoRy]

Does art not have a soul? Can you cook with soul? Do people not say, "This food has soul" or , "Good food comes from the soul" , "He put a lot of soul into this dish" etc? A knife therefor can indeed be imbued with the craftsman's soul.

 

[user 1925]

+1000000000
I think that is the soul of the knife but not in the literal sense, of course. but it gives heat to the hands of the master, the love that he put into his knife.
more appropriate name-aura
have cold things, and there is a warm
knife forged it is warm and the film industry is not to blame

I think this is fallacious insofar that not all handmade items are high quality, and that warm fuzzy feeling you are talking about is purely subjective, conscious perception i.e. emotion.

There is nothing wrong with this, but as an old Ukrainian farmer that I once knew would say, "let's call a shovel a God damned shovel!"

 

[user 1925]

Does art not have a soul? Can you cook with soul? Do people not say, "This food has soul" or , "Good food comes from the soul" , "He put a lot of soul into this dish" etc? A knife therefor can indeed be imbued with the craftsman's soul.

The problem is that individuals are trying to articulate a quality that is by its very nature un-definable, and purely emotional.

Read the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" as I think it is a good book on the way [many] people think, and is particularly pertinent to all of us.

 

[Salty dog]

Soul might not be accurate but there is something there.

A musician and his favorite instrument.
A warrior and his most trusted weapon.
A cowboy and his horse.
A cook in the zone with his favorite knife.

If I have a killer day ahead of me, I know what knife I'm going to use and when I grab it I get a warm and fuzzy feeling. No kidding. It's part of getting your head in the right place for what's to come.

 

[jimbob]

Great book and good comparison for anything handmade with care. I get joy from simply looking and holding my knives!

 

[user 1925]

Soul might not be accurate but there is something there.

A musician and his favorite instrument.
A warrior and his most trusted weapon.
A cowboy and his horse.
A cook in the zone with his favorite knife.

If I have a killer day ahead of me, I know what knife I'm going to use and when I grab it I get a warm and fuzzy feeling. No kidding. It's part of getting your head in the right place for what's to come.

Exactly. It's your relationship with that item that makes it special.

However, it's not quantifiable and anybody that says a Shigefusa has more soul than a Masamoto is full of $hit. You can have your reasons for liking the Shigefusa more, but that doesn't make it objectively or measurably better than a Masamoto.

 

[Salty dog]

yep

 

[Zwiefel]

Exactly. It's your relationship with that item that makes it special.

However, it's not quantifiable and anybody that says a Shigefusa has more soul than a Masamoto is full of $hit. You can have your reasons for liking the Shigefusa more, but that doesn't make it objectively or measurably better than a Masamoto.

[email protected] was going to say that!

There is a psychology to the contextualization of objects and how that creates the relationship a person has with it. It's a very powerful psychological effect. I have this kind of relationship with my Jeep, with my first jKnife, with one of my sidearms, my first dog, etc. My response to these is not purely rational b/c I have an emotional relationship to them as well.

I think what people call "soul" in art objects like these knives is that they feel like they have a relationship with the maker or the history--in either a specific or generic sense--through ownership of the article.

:2cents:

 

[labor of love]

its pretty rational to have an emotional relationship with a dog. not to bust your chops or anything, but i wouldnt consider a dog just another possession like a knife, firearm or vehicle.

 

[Zwiefel]

its pretty rational to have an emotional relationship with a dog. not to bust your chops or anything, but i wouldnt consider a dog just another possession like a knife, firearm or vehicle.

Yeah, the emphasis is on "first" there...poor editing on my part.

 

[Dream Burls]

[email protected] was going to say that!

There is a psychology to the contextualization of objects and how that creates the relationship a person has with it. It's a very powerful psychological effect.

Well said. I think it relates to the old adage "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". If something sings to you, you know it. Your senses are attuned to that object and in effect it becomes a living thing that you make a connection with. I think you can have an emotional attachment to an object just as you can with a living being, well maybe not just, but an attachment never the less. I have a pen I love to use not only because of the way it writes, but in my eyes it's beautiful to see and in my hand it feels great. I feel the same way about Marko's custom that I have and a few other possessions. These feelings may not quantifiable, but they are strong and undeniable. It's a good thing too. Imagine how dull things would be if we were never wowed by something.

 

[Vladimir]

Exactly. It's your relationship with that item that makes it special.

However, it's not quantifiable and anybody that says a Shigefusa has more soul than a Masamoto is full of $hit. You can have your reasons for liking the Shigefusa more, but that doesn't make it objectively or measurably better than a Masamoto.

Yes I agree with that ,cannot be one person a little pregnant, and second more pregnant ,so the soul, or it is yes or her not.

 

[Marko Tsourkan]

Devin told me once that a knife should be made such that it brings up emotions in people. Same applies to art, music, food, sports, etc. That's how I see it too. Bestowing an object with a soul = marketing. I think I saw that description in a pamflet that came with a Watanabe knife some years ago.

 

[user 1925]

I'm just going to say it one more time because I think many on this forum would really enjoy/relate to it: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. This book will provide insight into that elusive aspect of any material object that we are attracted to, which is deeper than any quantifiable reason(s). He even talks--albeit briefly--about sharpening and taking care of ones own knives, which he relates to an deeper understanding and caring attitude, which he then relates to quality--quality being the topic of inquiry. I highly recommend it to all you good folks.

 

[TheDispossessed]

I'm just going to say it one more time because I think many on this forum would really enjoy/relate to it: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. This book will provide insight into that elusive aspect of any material object that we are attracted to, which is deeper than any quantifiable reason(s). He even talks--albeit briefly--about sharpening and taking care of ones own knives, which he relates to an deeper understanding and caring attitude, which he then relates to quality--quality being the topic of inquiry. I highly recommend it to all you good folks.

+1 , great book

 

[TheDispossessed]

I have encountered this myth, a knife of nicer make will simply be sharper. half a dozen young line cooks with $200 japanese gyutos that are dull as **** due to lack of care/knowledge and the boys in the prep kitchen have $20 knives that are sharp as hell.

 

[bieniek]

Devin told me once that a knife should be made such that it brings up emotions in people. Same applies to art, music, food, sports, etc. That's how I see it too. Bestowing an object with a soul = marketing. I think I saw that description in a pamflet that came with a Watanabe knife some years ago.

So truth.

I think to say that the blade carries the spirit of the samurai or the soul of the craft is total BS but never noticed Shigefusa to mention that.
They dont need too much marketing I think.

What I mean is this: around ten years ago I thought tenis was a boring game, until played myself. For some people boxing is about pure aggression and they dont see any beauty about it, the point is, when I get a knife in my hands that was hand forged, hand ground, polished and hand finished, I can see the amount of work it took. Now that I polished a few blades I know how much it takes, and to do it everyday is hard job that requires passion.
AND thats why I admire it.
Dont have problems selling it, but clearly appreciate amount of dedication involved.

 

[Lucretia]

My shoes have souls. (sic) :tease:

 

[convis]

So truth.

I think to say that the blade carries the spirit of the samurai or the soul of the craft is total BS but never noticed Shigefusa to mention that.
They dont need too much marketing I think.

What I mean is this: around ten years ago I thought tenis was a boring game, until played myself. For some people boxing is about pure aggression and they dont see any beauty about it, the point is, when I get a knife in my hands that was hand forged, hand ground, polished and hand finished, I can see the amount of work it took. Now that I polished a few blades I know how much it takes, and to do it everyday is hard job that requires passion.
AND thats why I admire it.
Dont have problems selling it, but clearly appreciate amount of dedication involved.

Yes. Soo many people dont understand this. If you find something boring, dull, inappreciable(object activity ect), you most likely don't understand it. Understanding of what is going on, of the story behind it ect. can allow you to see the beauty, the art behind it. Things can be interesting, have value, soul ect. without a deep understanding, but it almost always deepens it.

For example, if my mother(both my parents are artists) were to pick up an interesting rock, she would look at the beauty of the patterns the shape ect. and recognize the emotional response from that. My father studied geology for a long time. He would pick up the same "interesting" rock and would automatically know how it was formed, when, where ect. Because of his artist background he would also appreciate the artistic value. But he would marvel on how the process of formation created the lines within, how it was transported long ago from where it was to where it was found. How erosion helped shape it ect.
My mother may think it is pleasing to the eye ect., but when my father looks at it, his appreciation goes far deeper.

A factory stamped knife may very well function on a equal level of a hand-forged knife. The appreciation of what went into making the handforged knife, the skill required. the years of practice, creates more value in it for the educated user. For me that knowledge of what went into it, and the feeling of connection to the maker, his history, is what gives it "soul".

When you are buying a knife that costs upwards of 500 dollars and own many, you are kidding yourself if you think you are making these purchases for utility alone. The story behind it, the knowledge ect. has value, it may not reflect it in its performance but it is still there nonetheless.

That being said, for an uneducated user, there is no difference. For most people on this site there is, its just not performance based.

 

[Chef Doom]

Sorry ThEoRy, but I have never ONCE heard anyone refer to food or a dish having soul. You are confusing this with the term "Soul Food", which is a very different term. And I mostly recall hearing art and soul used in sentences like "This painting shows the artist had a twisted soul". Which is snob speak for the painter was up at 4 in the morning with blurry vision after doing a couple of lines and leaving his glasses at his mother's house. Outside of artwork the only time I used to hear of an object having soul was that it was either possessed, or it was in reference to a samurai sword. After I started hovering around the various knife forums a couple of years ago, I realized this phenomenon had trickled down to kitchen knives.

Why can't we just say that a hand made knife has character, or it's unique, that special craftsman quality. I hate to vent, but I guess I would be more accepting if one of the original phrases were being used properly, like, "he put his heart and soul into his work".

Salty, although I kind of agree with what you say, but Jimi Hendrix clearly showed that a guitar is just a disposable object. A very expensive, costly, disposable object. Or....maybe....he burned his guitars to purify their souls and exorcise demons? Yeah, all makes sense to me now. :bigeek: :scared4:

 

[chinacats]

Why can't we just say that a hand made knife has character, or it's unique, that special craftsman quality. I hate to vent, but I guess I would be more accepting if one of the original phrases were being used properly, like, "he put his heart and soul into his work".

So if a knifemaker puts his heart and soul into his work, then his work (knife) has soul...

:running: