Moritaka AS vs Shiro kamo AS vs Hinoura AS??

[HappyamateurDK]

Hi all.

A friend of mine has come to the point where he feels like trying carbon knives.

He's bin looking at 3 different knives and is asking for my opinion. The knives are following.

1. Moritaka AS 210 mm Gyuto.
2. Shiro Kamo Akuma 210 mm Gyuto AS
3. Mutsumi Hinoura 210 mm Gyuto in AS

The Moritaka and the Hinoura are similar priced, while the shiro kamo is about 30% cheaper.

I have never tried a Moritaka AS, only a Blue#2. And I honestly wasn't that impressed. Are there any major differences between there blue#2 and AS? Anyone who knows if the AS is stainless clad?

I own a Mutsumi Hinoura AS myself in 240. I love mine. Bit they do tend to be on the beafy/heavy side. And I'm not sure he would like that. It's a plus for him they are stainless clad.

I'm leaning towards recommending him trying the shiro Acuma. I just think shiro kamo's are often very good cutters for the price. Usually with a good heat treatment. Like the Hinoura it's also a plus it's stainless clad.

But what do you guys think? Am I missing any points? What would you choose?

Thanks

 

[Duukt]

Shiro Kamo all the way. Thinnest of the lot, great grind and decent, consistent HT and a pricing champion!

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Shiro Kamo all the way. Thinnest of the lot, great grind and decent, consistent HT and a pricing champion!

Great. Pretty much by own impression too.

 

[gentiscid]

Shiro Kamo

 

[GorillaGrunt]

I’ve got knives from all 3 and they’re all a solid pick. Kamo does stand out owing to the lower price of that line for the cutting quality and is the thinnest and lightest. I was worried about durability but that proved unfounded; never had a chip or deflection. Moritaka had some grind issues a few years ago but that seems to be a thing of the past; I’ve had 3 that were all good. They also have a good price point for working chefs, excellent steel and cutting performance. Of note is that it is not stainless clad and also the black finish does start to come off eventually.

 

[Jovidah]

Is this shortlist based on any specific preference in their profile, grind or cutting style or did he basically just look only for aogami super knives?

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Is this shortlist based on any specific preference in their profile, grind or cutting style or did he basically just look only for aogami super knives?

I guess he's focus on AS knives comes from the understanding that it's a pretty easy carbon steel to handle. Other then that I doubt he is deep enough down the rabbit hole to have any preferences on profile or grind.

 

[blokey]

There’s also Ikazuchi at JKI.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

There’s also Ikazuchi at JKI.

Thanks.

But I think he would prefer buying locally, or atleast within the EU.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I just got the 180mm Akuma bunka and I'm super pleased with it. It's thin and hard, cuts really well, and came with one of the better OOB edges I've seen. Obviously the choil from the bunka won't be a perfect comparison to the gyuto but Shiro Kamo is fairly consistent across lines for his tall and thin style. I also have his blue damascus (Tora) gyuto 210 from Cleancut and it's a wonderful cutter.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

I just got the 180mm Akuma bunka and I'm super pleased with it. It's thin and hard, cuts really well, and came with one of the better OOB edges I've seen. Obviously the choil from the bunka won't be a perfect comparison to the gyuto but Shiro Kamo is fairly consistent across lines for his tall and thin style. I also have his blue damascus (Tora) gyuto 210 from Cleancut and it's a wonderful cutter.

View attachment 210066

Sounds good. How would you rate the finish on the knife?

 

[SwampDonkey]

Sounds good. How would you rate the finish on the knife?

The walnut handle is good quality and I love the coloring, the ferrule looks a bit more red in this pic than it does in person but it's a nice contrast without being too much. Clean install and lightly rounded choil/spine, if you're really particular about it the spine might need about 3 more passes of sandpaper but it's definitely not an issue for me. The stainless cladding is properly stainless, I forced a coffee patina and the cladding didn't take any color. On that note, the AS core took way longer to take the coffee patina than a Y. Kato AS I did the same with, so it's not very reactive. Just an interesting note, pic is pre-patina.

The kurouchi finish is very smooth to the touch, and it's a bit more grey than the dark black of some other makers. The pic shows the KU isn't perfectly even and painted-on looking, gives it a bit more rustic vibe but that's only in direct lighting and you can't feel any variations. Great bang for the buck.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

The walnut handle is good quality and I love the coloring, the ferrule looks a bit more red in this pic than it does in person but it's a nice contrast without being too much. Clean install and lightly rounded choil/spine, if you're really particular about it the spine might need about 3 more passes of sandpaper but it's definitely not an issue for me. The stainless cladding is properly stainless, I forced a coffee patina and the cladding didn't take any color. On that note, the AS core took way longer to take the coffee patina than a Y. Kato AS I did the same with, so it's not very reactive. Just an interesting note, pic is pre-patina.

The kurouchi finish is very smooth to the touch, and it's a bit more grey than the dark black of some other makers. The pic shows the KU isn't perfectly even and painted-on looking, gives it a bit more rustic vibe but that's only in direct lighting and you can't feel any variations. Great bang for the buck.

View attachment 210067

Thanks a lot for some great info. He ended up buying the Shiro kamo. Looking forward to try it out

 

[deliyski]

If you still haven't bought it - Shiro Kamo any day of the week!

 

[Gall0ne]

Just a curiosity aren't Shiro Kamo hollow ground? And what's about the other two?
Can't say nothing about morikata, but read good things on hinoura, sure it's 30% more expensive then shiro kamo.
I never tried any of these maker but I''m curious to try AS before or later.

 

[Infrared]

Just a curiosity aren't Shiro Kamo hollow ground? And what's about the other two?

Hionura is also hollow ground.

Moritaka is slightly convex.

 

[Delat]

Just a curiosity aren't Shiro Kamo hollow ground? And what's about the other two?
Can't say nothing about morikata, but read good things on hinoura, sure it's 30% more expensive then shiro kamo.
I never tried any of these maker but I''m curious to try AS before or later.

I have a 210 R2 gyuto from him that’s convex. It’s circa 2021, not sure about his current work.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

My Shiro kamo was pretty hollow but not like Kurosaki hollow. Few hours on stones or let it grind out over time

 

[HappyamateurDK]

My Shiro kamo was pretty hollow but not like Kurosaki hollow. Few hours on stones or let it grind out over time

It sounds like you had your shiro kamo for a while. How would you rate it?

 

[GorillaGrunt]

10/10 definitely. Also I got the inexpensive one from K&S; there are a few different lines so some might be convex finished on stones

 

[blokey]

I have a 210 R2 gyuto from him that’s convex. It’s circa 2021, not sure about his current work.

His AS and R2 are quite different, AS is pretty concave from what I see.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

10/10 definitely. Also I got the inexpensive one from K&S; there are a few different lines so some might be convex finished on stones

Sounds good. Looks forward to try it. Maybe I end up ordering one myself.

 

[miggus]

I wonder how this story ended @HappyamateurDK ?

I like my Moritakas a lot, owning Denkas hasn't hurt that.

But I'd make sure your friend wants iron cladding. If there is even a hint of uncertainty, I'd always go with stainless clad.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

I wonder how this story ended @HappyamateurDK ?

I like my Moritakas a lot, owning Denkas hasn't hurt that.

But I'd make sure your friend wants iron cladding. If there is even a hint of uncertainty, I'd always go with stainless clad.

Hey.

He bought the shiro kamo. So far he really like it. I tried it too, and I was so impressed with it I ended ordering one myself. Very nice knife for the money. Haven't sharpened it yet. But like it so far.

 

[miggus]

Ah, so you followed the mainline advice here and it went well - that's awesome to hear. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Ah, so you followed the mainline advice here and it went well - that's awesome to hear. Thanks for the feedback!

Your welcome!

With the current trends the mainline thing to do. Would have bin buying a denka. And spending 2023 convincing ourselves it was worth the money

But yes... We chose to listen to people's good experiences.

 

[miggus]

Haha, so true. I have two Denka nakiris with a Gyuto on the way. But with the recent modifications, my Moritaka Gyuto is doing so well that I might just leave it at that If you buy from the right smith, then there is incredible bang-for-the-buck options out there. Unlike Moritaka and TF, the Shiro Kamo even is awesome without a regrind