My angle & pressure problem

[ian]

San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal.

What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.

 

[Midsummer]

What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.

Certainly is a good reason to talk to the vendor. If there is work to be done, the dealer and his contacts should be most knowledgeable in who, when and where. It is a wonderful topic for discussion and perhaps a technique we may want to apply some time in our lives.

 

[adam92]

What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.

Is big deal to me also, i can't accept if i pay price & receive serious problem knife like this ...

 

[adam92]

San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal. Even Shig. will warp overtime & need correction eventually.

It’s easy to bend it back, you can do it by hand over the counter top, but more precisely, I prefer rubber mullet lightly hitting the high spot on the blade lay flat on a cutting board. It’s important to straighten the knife before sharpening & thinning. You might have to do it a few times as the internal force tend to want to bend it back after initial correction.

look at your other San Mai knives, they are probably not perfectly straight either.

Some blade warp, like my TF, the edge & spine bend towards opposite directions, in which case, you may not be able to cure both, it’s more important to keep the edge straight. This might have something to do with TF super high HRC, thus, more internal steel stress. It’s probably much easier to stay flat if it’s 60 HRC, but I love my TF the most even with all its flaws. It’s a project knife for sure, not for everyone.

if your knife is straight, all you need to do is to thin it, even out the high low spots

I haved 0% confident to bent the knife bacl since i have no experience at all, i haved contact Gaku & see, how's going on first, Do you have any video can teaching how to do it ?

 

[adam92]

San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal. Even Shig. will warp overtime & need correction eventually.

It’s easy to bend it back, you can do it by hand over the counter top, but more precisely, I prefer rubber mullet lightly hitting the high spot on the blade lay flat on a cutting board. It’s important to straighten the knife before sharpening & thinning. You might have to do it a few times as the internal force tend to want to bend it back after initial correction.

look at your other San Mai knives, they are probably not perfectly straight either.

Some blade warp, like my TF, the edge & spine bend towards opposite directions, in which case, you may not be able to cure both, it’s more important to keep the edge straight. This might have something to do with TF super high HRC, thus, more internal steel stress. It’s probably much easier to stay flat if it’s 60 HRC, but I love my TF the most even with all its flaws. It’s a project knife for sure, not for everyone.

if your knife is straight, all you need to do is to thin it, even out the high low spots

I haved 0% confident to bent the knife bacl since i have no experience at all, i haved contact Gaku & see, how's going on first, Do you have any video can teaching how to do it ?

 

[adam92]

In the video mark from CKTG showing how to bent the knife, do i just follow the instruction?

 

[ma_sha1]

That’s how I do it with obvious bends, to get it perfect, I use a rubber hammer against flat surface.

 

[adam92]

Today i put my knife to working task table, when i put it flat & press close to heel, the tip is lift up little bit, left & right have same problem, is this bent ?

 

[Kristoffer]

View attachment 68628 View attachment 68628 View attachment 68629 Today i put my knife to working task table, when i put it flat & press close to heel, the tip is lift up little bit, left & right have same problem, is this bent ?

Looks pretty bent to me... I hope all goes well with having the knife changed with TF. Good luck!

 

[adam92]

Looks pretty bent to me... I hope all goes well with having the knife changed with TF. Good luck!

I Don't know Gaku will exchange the knife to me or not...

Hopefully didn't get bad customer service from him...


When i order knife from Koki also had bad experience.. I send back my knife twice...LOL...

 

[Dave Martell]

Last night i talked to Dave & showed him the picture. He say looks like same issue as the knife he dealing before, now i gonna contact seller & asking for return/fixing ...

Just to be clear, this is my response(s) to Adam's questions to myself in PMs on this subject...

Hi Adam,
It's obviously tough to tell in pictures what exactly is going on yet I think it's clear to see that there is at the least some issues you're dealing with. The knife does appear to have some heavy grind sections along it's bevel and while this is an eyesore, and something you'll likely want to deal with for aesthetics, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an overgrind problem. You can't really know if these low sections are full on problem overgrinds until you sand away so much metal along the bevel that you pop through to the other side and change the profile of the knife by making what we call a hole in the edge. There is one indication that you can be up against a big problem and that's if you see low spots on the bevel in the same sections on both sides as this almost always leads to a hole, at least a greater percentage of the time anyway.

I'm sorry that I can't help much more than this. Good luck to you!

Regards,
Dave

This is unfortunately a built in problem from this particular maker. Something that isn't realized by the customer until they take the knife to the stones. This problem is made worse by so many people talking this maker up like he is a God.

I wish I could say if your knife has a problem or not but you'll never know until you get to the point where it shows up or not.

 

[adam92]

Just to be clear, this is my response(s) to Adam's questions to myself in PMs on this subject...

Hi Dave, Did i make something wrong?

 

[Dave Martell]

Hi Dave, Did i make something wrong?

I just wanted to be clear about my stance on this subject.

 

[adam92]

I just wanted to be clear about my stance on this subject.

I see, I thought i explain anything wrong as my english is not good, hope you don't mind.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

After seeing all these threads regarding TF, I still want a denka...am I crazy?

 

[ma_sha1]

No, & you are not alone. I want a Denka too still, after using my MAb., & spend time thinning it twice & fixing some minor bends, it’s now my most fav. knife.

I have Kurosaki Fujin, Toyama, Youshikane, Mazaki, Shig, etc., but I always reach for my TF.

However, it’s a project knife, one needs to know how to fix bends, re-grind etc. to be able to really enjoy it. There’s something about TF, like a wild mustang rather than a well trained show horse, that makes it irresistible once tamed.

 

[adam92]

No, & you are not alone. I want a Denka too still, after using my MAb., & spend time thinning it twice & fixing some minor bends, it’s now my most fav. knife.

I have Kurosaki Fujin, Toyama, Youshikane, Mazaki, Shig, etc., but I always reach for my TF.

However, it’s a project knife, one needs to know how to fix bends, re-grind etc. to be able to really enjoy it. There’s something about TF, like a wild mustang rather than a well trained show horse, that makes it irresistible once tamed.

I don't know how to fix problem like this as i never happened to my other gyuto... Maybe I'm not suitable for the knife, I don't know is it because of the grinding problem, my knife lose sharp edge very quickly?

 

[adam92]

Anyone have deal with Gaku before ?

I send him email but until now haven't get reply yet, before i purchase the knife usually he reply my within one days 。。

 

[J.C]

my knife lose sharp edge very quickly

this is more likely either burr problem or your edge grind not balanced.
Have you tried to deburr after sharpening?
(My maboroshi still can cut through tomato no problem after 3weeks not seeing the stone, just lightly strop every couple days)

 

[adam92]

this is more likely either burr problem or your edge grind not balanced.
Have you tried to deburr after sharpening?
(My maboroshi still can cut through tomato no problem after 3weeks not seeing the stone, just lightly strop every couple days)

I do the process exactly same as my other knives, de burr, strop...

If you look back the thread you'll realise my knife came with many problem. grinding, bent, low spots ....

pretty upset.

 

[J.C]

If you look back the thread you'll realise my knife came with many problem. grinding, bent, low spots

I can’t comment much about this. As i only did 1 purchase for the TF and i don’t have any problem except for the low spots ( which also occurs on some other big brands)
On the other hand, I can relate a bit with your frustration as i had ever been in the same situation when i purchased a “big brand” j-knife few years back. Everything was okay except it start to bend(warped) by itself and create like a (slight) curve in the middle of the knife.
I contacted the maker, and he also replied me in a very cool manner, saying it is an easy fix, just need to press the blade flat on a surface and bent it back by lifting the handle to a desired angle. But as im a amateur in this thing, i prefer to send it back for him to fix. Long story short, i tried to fix it myself and it was not successful, the other option was to send it back for fixing and the delivery fee was outrageous ( return ) delivery will costs roughly more than 100$ and he does not want to accept refund even though the knife is still in “like new” condition because it has been a while since the purchase. So i need to swallow the pill and bear with it till today. Still looking for options to fix it

 

[ian]

Everything was okay except it start to bend(warped) by itself and create like a (slight) curve in the middle of the knife.
I contacted the maker, and he also replied me in a very cool manner, saying it is an easy fix, just need to press the blade flat on a surface and bent it back by lifting the handle to a desired angle. But as im a amateur in this thing, i prefer to send it back for him to fix. Long story short, i tried to fix it myself and it was not successful, the other option was to send it back for fixing and the delivery fee was outrageous ( return ) delivery will costs roughly more than 100$ and he does not want to accept refund even though the knife is still in “like new” condition because it has been a while since the purchase.

I’m sorry that happened to you. It certainly sounds like it could have been frustrating.

That said, from my point of view that sounds like a reasonable response from the maker. These sorts of bends can happen for a variety of reasons. Usually you can fix it by doing what the maker said, and knives don’t come with an extended warranty covering shipping. I used to get bends in my san mai knives from having a mag strip that was too powerful, and would fix them like that. To me, this story seems very different from Adam’s, where the problem with the knife seems more severe and was (more importantly) present upon purchase.

That said, I’m sure I would have been annoyed in your situation, too.

 

[J.C]

this story seems very different from Adam’s, where the problem with the knife seems more severe and was (more importantly) present upon purchase

I know, in my case, that experiences helped me to be what i am now. Since then, i have been more eager to learn the background of the maker and the feedback from the user before i made my purchases.
Different case with Adam92, he hasn’t got any reply from the maker which also can be frustrating, as the only possible communication with them is by email and they normally won’t reply promptly.

 

[adam92]

My knife shown many problem, i tried to ask the famous local Sharpener in New Zealand but even toishigram told me he was unable to fix it.

I've been sending email & website contact him but still didn't get any reply yet, if i didn't get satisfy answer i won't purchase any TF in my life anymore, I receive the knife less than a month & using less than 10 time, I look after every knife i got, only use warm water to clean, not suppose to bent like this fast, i own yoshihiro, jck carbonext, takamura R2 for several years but didn't happen anything like this. Only yoshihiro have grinding unbalance problem.

I'm so frustrated right now..

 

[Dave Martell]

Just this past week I had a Denka (I think that's what it's called....one of those hammered rusty looking ones with a girly sized finger groove) come in for a really bad edge damage repair. This one needed a re-profiling since the owner tried to correct the edge damage and altered the profile a bit.

I did everything possible I could to avoid touching the wide bevel, taking sooooooooooo much extra time in doing things than normal, but in the end I had to thin the edge after the re-profile because it was uneven in sections. So my worse fear was realized.

I used my belt grinder to grind the bevels down thin and that was pretty quick to do however I spent like 2 hours trying to make the bevels even along the length while not opening up the maker's overgrinds/edge laden hammer blows. With all my experience, soooo much extra time given, master level attention being supplied I still only managed to get it satisfactory looking and even.

Now had I needed to then take it to the stones, well I'm pretty sure it would have been another 4-6 hrs work to get it done. I'm just glad that I didn't have to go that route on this particular job.

These knives are VERY rough (even crude) in many ways and should be known to be this way so that new knifenuts can make informed decisions. It does no one but the maker/reseller any good to hype up a knife of this quality. This is the same exact situation as Moritaka.

I feel sorry for Adam.

 

[Garm]

My knife shown many problem, i tried to ask the famous local Sharpener in New Zealand but even toishigram told me he was unable to fix it.

I've been sending email & website contact him but still didn't get any reply yet, if i didn't get satisfy answer i won't purchase any TF in my life anymore, I receive the knife less than a month & using less than 10 time, I look after every knife i got, only use warm water to clean, not suppose to bent like this fast, i own yoshihiro, jck carbonext, takamura R2 for several years but didn't happen anything like this. Only yoshihiro have grinding unbalance problem.

I'm so frustrated right now..

I can definitely feel your frustration. Similar things, though nowhere near as bad, have happened with a couple of knives I own.
In my opinion the problems with your knife are unacceptable, and aren't normal for any maker of Japanese knives. I'm sure Gaku/TF will offer to fix it once you hear back from him, or more likely send you a new knife. I certainly hope so at least.
Should they demand you pay for return shipping, then Paypal has some new policy of providing a limited number of free returns per year.
Good luck to you, and hopefully you'll get a knife that perfoms in all aspects like it's supposed to.

 

[adam92]

Just this past week I had a Denka (I think that's what it's called....one of those hammered rusty looking ones with a girly sized finger groove) come in for a really bad edge damage repair. This one needed a re-profiling since the owner tried to correct the edge damage and altered the profile a bit.

I did everything possible I could to avoid touching the wide bevel, taking sooooooooooo much extra time in doing things than normal, but in the end I had to thin the edge after the re-profile because it was uneven in sections. So my worse fear was realized.

I used my belt grinder to grind the bevels down thin and that was pretty quick to do however I spent like 2 hours trying to make the bevels even along the length while not opening up the maker's overgrinds/edge laden hammer blows. With all my experience, soooo much extra time given, master level attention being supplied I still only managed to get it satisfactory looking and even.

Now had I needed to then take it to the stones, well I'm pretty sure it would have been another 4-6 hrs work to get it done. I'm just glad that I didn't have to go that route on this particular job.

These knives are VERY rough (even crude) in many ways and should be known to be this way so that new knifenuts can make informed decisions. It does no one but the maker/reseller any good to hype up a knife of this quality. This is the same exact situation as Moritaka.

I feel sorry for Adam.

I would definitely not to recommend any TF knife to anyone anymore..

I thought I'll be lucky to get good TF without problem but i was wrong.

After 1st sharpen realise is garbage quality....

If they trying to searching for new knife, I hope they don't choose TF..

 

[adam92]

I can definitely feel your frustration. Similar things, though nowhere near as bad, have happened with a couple of knives I own.
In my opinion the problems with your knife are unacceptable, and aren't normal for any maker of Japanese knives. I'm sure Gaku/TF will offer to fix it once you hear back from him, or more likely send you a new knife. I certainly hope so at least.
Should they demand you pay for return shipping, then Paypal has some new policy of providing a limited number of free returns per year.
Good luck to you, and hopefully you'll get a knife that perfoms in all aspects like it's supposed to.

Hi Gam, Thank you very much for spiritual support, Let's hope Gaku will fix my problem. If can, i don't want new TF anymore, I just want to return the knife & request refund.

I don't know if he sending me a new knife, would the knife come with problem again or not, is no point to waste time anymore, i better go with ikeda gyuto.

 

[adam92]

I got the reply from Gaku, can someone help me to explain what's exactly did he means?

For my understanding he said is not grinding problem ?

 

[Benuser]

In my understanding, he says you caused it by poor sharpening, which is an audacious point of view.