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My first J-knives, Question about plastic ferrule and many more.

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AddictforLife

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I am considering getting the Tojiro Shirogami ITK 210mm form CKTG. For this series it comes with a plastic ferrule, I was wondering what are the cons of the plastic ferrule. Do they not last as long as the ferrule made of buffalo horn? Or is it a aesthetic, functional, or ergonomic thing? While there are knives that are around this price point that has better fit and finish, I am more interested in edge retention, having it last a couple days at work is a must for me. I am also would like to see that it can take a sharp edge. I will be using a kings 1000 and 6000 stone. It seem to be a best knife for the price I am willing to pay which is around $100.

If my budget is a little less restricted my choice would be a Konosuke White #2 270mm wa-Sujihiki but I am not willing to spend that much on a kitchen knife.


I am also kind of worry about overgrinding issue that might show up in a knife this cheap. Is there a better option out there for me?

Thanks a million.
 
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JBroida

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in general, plastic ferrules are not flush with the rest of the handle, making them a bit rough on the hands (for example, you are constantly rubbing against the wood edge where the handle meets the ferrule). Likewise, i see more plastic ferrules come loose than horn, so the ferrule can wiggle around inbetween the machi and handle if this happens. Also, plastic ferrule handles tend to have less quality wood, though this is not always true. The biggest difference is that plastic ferrule handles are MUCH cheaper and break less when being installed.
 

JohnnyChance

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Do you want a 210mm gyuto or a 270mm sujihiki? If you tell us which type of knife you prefer, or what you will be doing with said knife, we might be able to find some better alternatives for you.
 

AddictforLife

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Actually my first choice would be a 270mm suji, since I am low on cash right now I thought I might just get a decent gyuto for the time being. I would need a gyuto 210/240mm and a 270mm suji in the long run. Later on a yanagiba. Thanks once again.

I mostly do prep work for a sushi joint and slicing sushi roll for the time being.
 

JohnnyChance

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What about a 210mm Tojiro DP gyuto for $86, a 210mm JCK CarboNext gyuto for $105, a 210mm Suien VC gyuto for $125 or a 210mm Yoshihiro gyuto for $145?

I know all of these are more expensive than the shirogami tojiro, but they should all be much better knives, especially in a work environment.

I think you are making a wise choice getting the gyuto now, since it is the cheapest and you currently have a limited budget. When you can afford to spend more you can your suji, which is going to cost more anyway. Keep an eye on the B/S/T section here as well.
 

AddictforLife

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I was tempted to get a CN gyuto to the point of punching in my credit card number, however I started to have second doubt about the edge retention on the mystery steel. I would rather have a knife that is a good performer since I was train to wipe my blade clean after every task (stainless seem to be a function I don't really need, at least I don't think I need). If for some reason the steel rust, I could always clean it with a piece of Emery cloth.
 

JohnnyChance

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I would think the carbonext has better edge retention than a cheap white #2 knife, if anything the differences would be negligible.

I keep a bottle of Flitz in my work bag for when I or coworkers are careless and I get some ugly patina or rust on my carbon knives. Works great for getting rid of such things with no abrasives.
 

AddictforLife

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Thanks for the input. After doing more research it does seem that the Carbonext have a better edge retention than White #2, but should I get a 270mm suji from Carbonext. The geometry of the suji seem a bit weird to me, I am use to see suji with a straight edge. What do you guy think?

If I do get a the suji, I will most likely use it as a mufti-purpose knife.
 

Cadillac J

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The geometry of the suji seem a bit weird to me, I am use to see suji with a straight edge. What do you guy think?

If I do get a the suji, I will most likely use it as a mufti-purpose knife.
I too love sujis as multi-purpose knives, and I have owned the CN 270 before....but the profile never worked out "for me", so I sold it to a happy customer. However, I love my 240 CN gyuto very much, even if it is a bit more rounded than I like. The steel is my favorite stainless/semi-stainless.

On a side note, my Konosuke suji profile is my favorite I've used.
 

NO ChoP!

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I would definitely get a Carbonext or a Fujiwara lightyears before the ITK shirogami; especially if it'll be your main knife. The ITK actually has pretty bad edge retention. It does get very sharp, and actually has good geometry. The fit and finish is pretty bad. Worst korouchi finish ever seen... I sanded mine off, actually.

The only reason I got an ITK shirogami (and mine has an upgraded handle) was to beat the heck out of it; thin it, sand it, reshape it; just play around... wouldn't consider it an everyday workhorse.
 

AddictforLife

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I have narrow my choices down to the Carbonext 210mm and the Miyabi 7000mc. The Miyabi 7000mc look pretty decent from what it is. Has anyone have any experience with the ZDP-189 powder steel. It promises to retain the edges very well, but would not maintain an insane sharpness and will stay at a decent sharpness for a long time. I would be sharpening it with only a 6000 grits stone. Thanks once again.
 

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Yes, you've got it right in regards to the ZDP steel. I have a Cermax with the same steel. I like it for extended prep sessions with a wide array of product. It is a little chippy IMO. If you're a rocker/ board crawler type of cutter, maybe not a good choice....
 

AddictforLife

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Some say it hold a decent sharpness for a long time, the thing I am concern is how sharp is this "decent sharpness." It seem very subjected to me.
 

James

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Some say it hold a decent sharpness for a long time, the thing I am concern is how sharp is this "decent sharpness." It seem very subjected to me.
Think about the feeling of a vg10 knife after about maybe 1/2 of use on a decent end grain board. It's pretty much ~ 90% of what it was after coming off the stones. As for plastic ferrules, I have one on my takagi honyaki gyuto, and it's absolutely fine. Aesthetically, not the most pleasing thing, but it does the job, and it is flush with the handle, so that knife in general is very comfortable to use
 

Andrew H

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Some say it hold a decent sharpness for a long time, the thing I am concern is how sharp is this "decent sharpness." It seem very subjected to me.
If this is your first Japanese knife I think you will be very happy with what this community thinks of as "decent sharpness."
 

Eamon Burke

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The words "sharp" and "dull" as used by the general public, are synonyms here on the forums. There's Sharp->Not Sharp(Japanese NIB factory edge)->Dull(Western NIB factory edge)->What everyone else in America has in their home.

We are here to fight and bond over, among other things, different degrees of the first order.
 

EdipisReks

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heh. worse than that. i diced some onions at Christmas with a knife that my soon-to-be-mother-in-law considered a pretty sharp and usable knife. i wasn't convinced it actually had an edge.
 

AddictforLife

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Ultimately, which knife would you buy. 210mm or 240mm/ CarboNext or Miyabi. Considering that I only be using stones up to 6000, I will only sharpen up to 1000 grits most of the time.
 

EdipisReks

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i started with 210 gyutos, went to 270s, then tried 240s, and ended up with 250-255s (the 250-255s are wa gyutos that have 240mm edges, like Shigefusa). that probably doesn't help. :)
 

Andrew H

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Ultimately, which knife would you buy. 210mm or 240mm/ CarboNext or Miyabi. Considering that I only be using stones up to 6000, I will only sharpen up to 1000 grits most of the time.
I'd go 240 on either, and would choose CarboNext over Miyabi. 1k + 6k stone will do you just fine for quite a long time.
 

andoniminev

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heh. worse than that. i diced some onions at Christmas with a knife that my soon-to-be-mother-in-law considered a pretty sharp and usable knife. i wasn't convinced it actually had an edge.
worse than that! i have never been to any of my friends who has had a knife with a good edge. i really do not know how they are using their knives. ooooo, and i am even more shocked when i see how they sharpen them when i tell them that they are DULL.:wink:
 
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