Naniwa Professional (fka Chosera) vs Superstone (5000grit)

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

vk2109

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
77
Reaction score
16
Location
NYC
Hello i am in the process of replacing a heavily used Suheiro 1000/6000 i had
with new stones.

I have got the Naniwa Professional (fka Chosera) 1000 grit already but for the 5000 grit
i am looking i am wondering why such price difference btw the
Naniwa super stone 5000 ($60) vs the professional 5000 ($150) ?

any recos/feedback ?

Thank you

Vadim
 

Qapla'

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
519
Reaction score
130
From what I've read, the Naniwa Pro 5000 is considered the weakest of that line. No, don't spend $150 on it.

Have you considered, say, a Morihei 4000 or 6000? From what I'm reading, other possibilities might include an Arashiyama 6000 or a Shapton Glass 6000, depending on what you're looking for.
 

Benuser

Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
6,358
Reaction score
808
The Chosera 5k is indeed to be avoided. Softer than any other, no tactile feedback. The 3k gives an end result of some 4k according to the JIS standard. Highly recommended.
 

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
503
Location
EU
Hm. This is strange having used the Chosera 5000 plus Miyabi 5000 and Kramer 5000, both being more or less same as Chosera and none seemed soft or bad in any way.
On the other hand, the defunct resurrected SuperStone 5000 is really soft, albeit capable of a very good polish.

In US you could consider one of the 2 Gesshin 6000 stones, any that you might feel better with.

In EU you could try Rika 5000 or Shapton Glass 6000 HC (even the 4k), both available at great prices.
 

Scribbled

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
32
Location
Shanghai
Sorry for the unhelpful question, I almost bought the Suehiro 1/6000 as my starter stone (got a shapton 1+5K instead) I’m curious how you found it.
 

inferno

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
938
In this segment 4-6k i can recommend the shapton glass 4k. very fast and effective. 100% splash and go, dries in like 5 minutes. wears slowly, stays flat. not too expensive.

shapton glass HC 6k (gray stone), definitely takes it up a notch from the 4k, its a fast stone for its grit. polishes like a 8-10-12k or so depending on what you compare it too. this scary sharp territory. splash and go.

I also like the cleancut.se kitayama 4k. it feels nicer than the glass stones, quite easy to cut into if you make a mistake, and its a softer feeling stone, it handles r2 and other powder steels quite well imo. splash and go.

shapton pro 8k. does not polish at all, is very very fast for its grit, feels ok to me at least. quite expensive. splash and go. it can easily follow up after a 1k (the 12k pro can do this too, its that fast). quite a bit overkill on stainless and powder. the 6k HC is too imo.
 
Last edited:

inferno

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
938
The Chosera 5k is indeed to be avoided. Softer than any other, no tactile feedback. The 3k gives an end result of some 4k according to the JIS standard. Highly recommended.
also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.
 

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
503
Location
EU
also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.
It's not only them. Where they had problems, I also saw the same with Shapton and Sigma. Unfortunately. They just usually go first. But slowly as opposed to Sigma, that shatter with a bang, no warning.
 

gman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
209
Reaction score
121
i'm surprised to read people saying the naniwa pro 5k is soft. i really enjoy mine and it's harder than anything else i've tried above 3k.
 

inferno

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
938
It's not only them. Where they had problems, I also saw the same with Shapton and Sigma. Unfortunately. They just usually go first. But slowly as opposed to Sigma, that shatter with a bang, no warning.
I trust you. shaptons are not for soaking, but me personally i have not seen any spiderwebbing or cracking with mine. and i have many different pros and glass.

I was under the impression that the lower grit choseras were immune to this but my 800 is starting to spiderweb lightly. i spray painted it with clear coat, thick layer to try to combat this. we'll see how it goes. it has never ever been soaked. just used.
 

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
503
Location
EU
Seems like no soaking makes little difference.
Do you live in a dry environment? That's the only place I saw problems. Exactly the same stones in a different location are fine after many years.
 

Benuser

Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
6,358
Reaction score
808
i'm surprised to read people saying the naniwa pro 5k is soft. i really enjoy mine and it's harder than anything else i've tried above 3k.
Great to hear. My experience was with the old Chosera. The 5k was softer than anything in the series. My complaint though was the lack of tactile feedback. Had to guess whether a burr had gone. Very different from any other Chosera or the Naniwa Junpaku (Snow-white).
 

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
503
Location
EU
Maybe there was something off with that particular one.
 

Sharpchef

Banned
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
386
Reaction score
65
Location
Bavaria
5k Chosera is the best in the line, feedback etc... fast enough for touchups (the only Synthetik in that grid range....) . But it will get fissures after using sometime.... Like the 10k.... the others (i only have the discs.... don`t get these fissures (they are in the sun in cold weather to dry the whole year, just not in the winter when i pack my grinding machine in the cellar.

Greets Sebastian.
 

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
503
Location
EU
I'm not talking about the new one.
But there were a couple of Choseras out there, not sure if they changed anything. One was a bit bigger.
Anyway, I just took mine out and did a quick run with Hap40. Got a mirror edge back in a couple of minutes. It's one of the hardest 5000/6000 stone. If you are right on the bevel, it's smooth and silent. I moved a bit just to hear the change. Immediately I could feel and hear that I'm not where I should be.
 

Alder26

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
245
Reaction score
106
The super stone generally are good, but they are some of the softest synthetics I have used. Additionally they clog relatively quickly. They are good stones but there are much better regarded stones for the same or less money.
 

inferno

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
938
i only have the naniwa pros not the actual choseras (about what i wrote earlier up here, just so you know).

ok about the superstones...

alder26:
This is why they cost like half of the choseras/pros.

i still see that the SS can have some usable applications though. i know stringer on here cut a "fish hook" groove in his 2k to fix blade profiles, he just rubs it in the grove until the profile is good. phucking genious i say! and you cant do that with harder stones at all. since you will never be able to get that groove in there in the first place (easily at least).

I think the SS stones are made softer because they are made for blue and white steel only pretty much and then their dishing resistance is good enough. and they are quite cheap considering. and you also need to condition them often to keep them cutting. but they are cheap. you dont expect to get the "most bestest stones in the entire universe" for this price. personally though, to be honest, shapton pros are in the same price range and they are better. so i would rather get those.

The SS polish much finer than their grit suggests while the shappros dont, at all. and this could also be positive or negative depending on what you want really. is time money for you or not :)

imo there is no real good and bad, its just different applications and uses (and expectations). with that being said. i still feel some stuff is a lot better than some other stuff. ymmv of course.
 

podzap

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
548
Reaction score
342
Location
Helsinki, Finland
also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.
I've got a Naniwa Pro 400, 1000 and 3000. Had them in use now since last winter and no signs of cracking.

When I finish using them, I put them in my dish-drying rack above the sink for a minimum of 12 hours. It's basically a steel mesh bottom so that water can drip out and air can flow in. Finnish invention :)

It has been said repeatedly that they will crack if not properly dried prior to storing. If the drying requirements are too aggravating, then something else should be purchased.

Personally, I love the Naniwa Pros. I've probably got a maximum of 28 years still to live and they will easily last me the rest of my life.
 

Alder26

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
245
Reaction score
106
The super stones are also extremely homogenous and can be useful for polishing bevels. They will make your hagane extremely bright and reflective
 

gman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
209
Reaction score
121
The super stones are also extremely homogenous and can be useful for polishing bevels. They will make your hagane extremely bright and reflective
this is true. i have the supers in 8k and 12k, and they can produce a perfect mirror finish, even on soft stainless cladding.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2019
Messages
284
Reaction score
195
Location
CT
I trust you. shaptons are not for soaking, but me personally i have not seen any spiderwebbing or cracking with mine. and i have many different pros and glass.

I was under the impression that the lower grit choseras were immune to this but my 800 is starting to spiderweb lightly. i spray painted it with clear coat, thick layer to try to combat this. we'll see how it goes. it has never ever been soaked. just used.
Curious to know how’s your chosera 800 now? Mine is the real chosera series 800 and it starts to crack recently. I’d like to know the result of your efforts so that I know if it’s worth trying.
 
Last edited:

Bear

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
41
Location
Presque Isle, Maine
also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.
I've had my 800 Chosera for 3 years now, no cracking, I returned three 3k's back to Amazon because of cracks.
 

Qapla'

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
519
Reaction score
130
My Naniwa Pro 800 and 3000 are and have been perfectly fine. No especial care besides letting them dry (which I do with all stones). However, if so many others are having problems, maybe I just got lucky and have good ones.
 
Last edited:

Kawa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
72
Reaction score
55
Location
The Netherlands
My prof400 and chosera 600 don't crack either. it might be just luck.

This is what I do to dry them, and I haven't read to exact same thing around here, so it might be worth the try:
I place my stones diagonal (about 30-60 degree) to a wall or on a pot or something.
While drying I regularly flip them, and this is something i dont read about.

If your flip your stone after 5 minutes (so the bottum becomes the upper side and the side on the floor becomes the side against the wall/ on the pot.) you will see that all the water sank to the lowest spot, meaning that after flipping, the top side is more wet then the bottum but even more, the part of the stone that hit the floor (and is now against the wall/ on the pot) is obviously noticable the most wet spot.

So while drying i flip regularly, starting the first time after 5 minuts, second time in half an hour, 3th time in two hours and before bed once more...

I dont know if it helps or that I''m just lucky so far. Been using the stones for 3-4 years now.

If my story is hard to make a picture of, i can draw something in paint to make myself more clear
 

Kawa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
72
Reaction score
55
Location
The Netherlands
And for OP:

I have the superstone 2k and 5k. I dont have the chosera/pro 5000.

I had the same question a while ago (why so much price difference?) and this is what I found: the superstones are heavily used in the world of straight razors and not so much for kitchen knives.
The superstones tend to give a highly polished finish, which, I found out lately through this forum, is not to be adviced for kitchen knives.
I can confirm that the superstone 2k already gives a mirror shine in where you can see your facial hair, teeth and pupils (wide bevel). The 5k does do this even better (less scratches).

Recently I bought a shapton pro 2k (for those who remember my topic about what higher finish stone I should buy after superstone5k: i didn't do it) to really compare a superstone 2k versus an other appreciated/good reviewed stone and indeed the superstone does finish in a higher mirror polish.

Im not on the level that I can say which stone makes my knife sharper. I am to inconsistent, so the 'knife i succeeded better on is the sharpest' ;)
 

M1k3

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
3,073
Reaction score
2,852
And for OP:

I have the superstone 2k and 5k. I dont have the chosera/pro 5000.

I had the same question a while ago (why so much price difference?) and this is what I found: the superstones are heavily used in the world of straight razors and not so much for kitchen knives.
The superstones tend to give a highly polished finish, which, I found out lately through this forum, is not to be adviced for kitchen knives.
I can confirm that the superstone 2k already gives a mirror shine in where you can see your facial hair, teeth and pupils (wide bevel). The 5k does do this even better (less scratches).

Recently I bought a shapton pro 2k (for those who remember my topic about what higher finish stone I should buy after superstone5k: i didn't do it) to really compare a superstone 2k versus an other appreciated/good reviewed stone and indeed the superstone does finish in a higher mirror polish.

Im not on the level that I can say which stone makes my knife sharper. I am to inconsistent, so the 'knife i succeeded better on is the sharpest' ;)
Just so you know, Shapton stones aren't known for polishing. You basically have the 2 extremes between those 2 stones. Most other stones will fall somewhere in between them.
 
Top