Nano Hone 200 vs Suehiro debado 180/200 or Shapton 220s

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mrmoves92

mrmoves92

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Hello!

Quick summary:
I am in the market for another splash and go coarse stone. I really like my Nano Hone 200, and I am wondering how it compares to the Suehiro debado ld-21 or md-20, Shapton Kuromaku 220, or Shapton Glass 220. I care most about how deep the scratches are when polishing bevels, how fast the stone dishes, how long the stone lasts (stone life/$), and maybe cutting speed.

Longer Explanation:
My first coarse stone was a Gesshin 220 pink brick. I generally liked that stone (well enough to use it until it got to ~1 mm in thickness), but I didn’t like how fast it dished or how it would leave very coarse and very deep scratches while thinning and polishing.

I got the Nano Hone 200 because I was running out of Gesshin 220, and I wanted a splash and go coarse stone that I could take on the go. After using the Nano Hone 200 for a while, I realized that I really like it, and it did not have the same issues as the Gesshin 220. It did not dish super quickly or leave super deep/coarse scratches while thinning or polishing. I am very happy with this stone.

After thinning and polishing several knives and sharpening numerous knives, I have 3-4 mm left, which seems fair, but I am realizing that I need to find a replacement soon because I don’t have that much stone left. While thinking about replacement, I thought that maybe a different coarse splash and go stone could offer the same performance and characteristics that I like about the Nano Hone 200 while offering a better value of stone life/thickness to $. I will happily repurchase the Nano Hone 200 if other stones do not offer the same properties, so I am hoping to learn how other stones compare to it in this thread. I am wondering how the Nano Hone 200 compares to the Suehiro Debado ld-21/md-20, Shapton Kuromaku 220, and the Shapton Glass 220. Also, if you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them.
 
IMO anything below 600grit should be diamond

I hate my shapton 150, and the 320 is just ok for me while the 1k-5k are just amazing

Their 1k is actually more around 800 from my understanding
 
EricEricEric said:
IMO anything below 600grit should be diamond
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You have excluded the magnificent Shapton Glass 500.

I do not have tons of experience in the lower grits, say 400 and below, but what I have says that diamond stones are slower than friable bond stones, except for vitrified diamond stones, which are really productive under pressure.
 
Cliff said:
I am very, very impressed by the Debado 180. I prefer it to Nubatama Platinum 220 and Shapton Pro 120, which are my other options.
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tcmx3 said:
hard, fast, doesn't gouge, easily dressed, minimal dishing, splash and go, acceptable price
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Does the debado 180 leave any really deep/coarse scratches when thinning?
 
mrmoves92 said:
Does the debado 180 leave any really deep/coarse scratches when thinning?
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compared to what? it's a 180 grit stone.

but no, at least compared to SP120 (which is obviously coarser) or Atoma (which I DESPISE for thinning)
 
tcmx3 said:
compared to what? it's a 180 grit stone.

but no, at least compared to SP120 (which is obviously coarser) or Atoma (which I DESPISE for thinning)
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Good question! Compared to the Gesshin 220 pink brick (or the other 220 pink bricks) and the Nano Hone 200, if possible.

If you don’t have experience with those stones, then maybe we could compare it to how long the next stone took to remove those scratches. My next stone in my progression is a SG500, and if I remember correctly, you also use this stone. After thinning with the Suehiro Debado 180, how long does it take you to get out all of its scratches with the SG500?

For me, the Nano Hone 200 leaves appropriately coarse, ~200 grit scratches that probably take ~5 minutes to get rid of with the SG500. The Gesshin 220 would leave ~220 grit scratches, but it would also leave stray scratches or groups of scratches that were very deep, similar to ~60-120 grit, and these would probably take at least 20 minutes to completely get out on the SG500. I just refinished a Wakui stainless clad white #2 gyuto. I previously left some of the very deep scratches from the Gesshin 220, and when I started on the Nano Hone 200, those deep scratches still took a little while to get out, even with the NH200.
 
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mrmoves92 said:
Good question! Compared to the Gesshin 220 pink brick (or the other 220 pink bricks) and the Nano Hone 200, if possible.

If you don’t have experience with those stones, then maybe we could compare it to how long the next stone took to remove those scratches. My next stone in my progression is a SG500, and if I remember correctly, you also use this stone. After thinning with the Suehiro Debado 180, how long does it take you to get out all of its scratches with the SG500?

For me, the Nano Hone 200 leaves appropriately coarse, ~200 grit scratches that probably take ~5 minutes to get rid of with the SG500. The Gesshin 220 would leave ~220 grit scratches, but it would also leave stray scratches or groups of scratches that were very deep, similar to ~60-120 grit, and these would probably take at least 20 minutes to completely get out on the SG500. I just refinished a Wakui stainless clad white #2 gyuto. I previously left some of the very deep scratches from the Gesshin 220, and when I started on the Nano Hone 200, those deep scratches still took a little while to get out, even with the NH200.
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I haven't tested that extensively. I would ask @Badgertooth he polishes more than I do.

fwiw I have done it once and it turned out fine but it was just 1 knife. Instead I purchased a Chosera 400 to go inbetween the two and the results have been really fantastic. it may seem a bit overkill but the earlier you are in your progression the more important it is to keep it tight. also the Cho 400 does feel better for a second, slower shaping step than SG500 which I mostly use to check for flatness and to get things ready for 1k.
 
mrmoves92 said:
Does the debado 180 leave any really deep/coarse scratches when thinning?
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These things are relative, and I have not tried stainless yet. But I would say no: the scratches have been very easy to get out with a JNS 320. It's an expensive stone, but, so far, it does everything well. It's fast, really doesn't need to soak, and the scratches are not too deep to get out with other stones I have. Feel isn't a huge consideration to me, especially at this grit range, but even on that score I would give it high marks.
 
I am also hesitating between the Nano Hone 200 and the Suehiro Debado 200 (MD-20). Anyone has tried both of these and likes one better than the other?
 
Thank you for the helpful responses!

I called MTC Kitchen yesterday to try to get a direct comparison between the Nano Hone 200 and the Suehiro Debado MD-20. I was told that the quality is about the same, that the Debado is larger and does not come with a base, and that the manager prefers the Debado (I think that is what the person on the phone said). I asked about the depth of scratches while thinning/polishing, but I didn’t really get an answer. I might try emailing them to get a more detailed answer to my scratch depth question.
 
Hey,
I have shaped about 200 knives in two years. I have try about all coarse stones in the market (actually I missed the shapton pro 120). I am working with Debado 180. Great stone. It is working fast, not too soft, not too hard, sweet spot. It is splash n go. It will wear but slowly, it doesn't really stop cutting. It is a big stone.
Just beware of something (I want to do a post about it) : there is some non consistency on the stones. I am using my third Debado 180. First one was great. Second it is little bit harder on one end. Third was too hard, mean it behave very different from the two others. I open a fourth one that is good hopefully. I still use that hard one for control (because it is harder you better check you eveness on the bevel). I may contact Suehiro but I don't know (two people report me they had same behavior of a hard Debado)
 
mrmoves92 said:
Good question! Compared to the Gesshin 220 pink brick (or the other 220 pink bricks) and the Nano Hone 200, if possible.

If you don’t have experience with those stones, then maybe we could compare it to how long the next stone took to remove those scratches. My next stone in my progression is a SG500, and if I remember correctly, you also use this stone. After thinning with the Suehiro Debado 180, how long does it take you to get out all of its scratches with the SG500?

For me, the Nano Hone 200 leaves appropriately coarse, ~200 grit scratches that probably take ~5 minutes to get rid of with the SG500. The Gesshin 220 would leave ~220 grit scratches, but it would also leave stray scratches or groups of scratches that were very deep, similar to ~60-120 grit, and these would probably take at least 20 minutes to completely get out on the SG500. I just refinished a Wakui stainless clad white #2 gyuto. I previously left some of the very deep scratches from the Gesshin 220, and when I started on the Nano Hone 200, those deep scratches still took a little while to get out, even with the NH200.
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Are you using the LD180 for blade polishing or edge sharpening?
If you're using it for blade polishing I will have to suggest having a stone in between, 180 to 500 is a pretty big jump and personally I think the SG500 is slightly finer than 500 as well.

That being said, I've been using the Suehiro SNE 320 after the 180, and it's working very well for polishing application.
 
milangravier said:
there is some non consistency on the stones
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I've experienced this with Shaptons. I think it's a more widespread problem than we realize, since most people don't buy multiples of the same stone. After all, stones have something similar to a 'heat treat' and anyone who's fired pottery can tell you how much variation can happen between different spots in a kiln.

I also wonder if supply chain issues have made this more of a problem in recent years. Maybe they can't afford to discard the duds anymore? This is a speculatory, but sometimes I'll read someone's take on a particular stone and wonder if they got the same stone as I did.
 
Kiru said:
Are you using the LD180 for blade polishing or edge sharpening?
If you're using it for blade polishing I will have to suggest having a stone in between, 180 to 500 is a pretty big jump and personally I think the SG500 is slightly finer than 500 as well.

That being said, I've been using the Suehiro SNE 320 after the 180, and it's working very well for polishing application.
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I will be using the ~200 grit stone for both blade polishing and edge sharpening, but my main concerns are about blade polishing. I think that this thread has convinced me to try the Suehiro Debado MD-20. I am looking for another stone to get free shipping from MTC Kitchen, so maybe I could get a stone between 200 and 500 grit (although, I was thinking of buying/trying the arashiyama 6k for polishing between my JNS red Aoto and Morihei 9k). I do have a Naniwa Pro 400 that I have been using interchangeably with the SG500. Would that still be too fine to be next in the progression after the ~200 grit stone?

As I said in one of the posts above, I have no issues moving from the Nano Hone 200 to the SG500 while polishing. Would you expect this to be different with the jump from the MD-20 (or your 180) to the SG500 or the NP400?

Thanks!
 
zizirex said:
there wouldn't be any issue from Debado to NP400 or SG500
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Thank you!
zizirex said:
but it will take slightly longer to remove the scratch
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With the Debado to NP400 or SG500, it will take longer to remove the scratches than what? Than with the Nano Hone 200? Than a ~320 grit stone? Or something else?

I am sorry if my questions are annoying, but I wasn’t sure exactly what you meant, and I wanted to clarify.

Thanks!
 
mrmoves92 said:
I will be using the ~200 grit stone for both blade polishing and edge sharpening, but my main concerns are about blade polishing. I think that this thread has convinced me to try the Suehiro Debado MD-20. I am looking for another stone to get free shipping from MTC Kitchen, so maybe I could get a stone between 200 and 500 grit (although, I was thinking of buying/trying the arashiyama 6k for polishing between my JNS red Aoto and Morihei 9k). I do have a Naniwa Pro 400 that I have been using interchangeably with the SG500. Would that still be too fine to be next in the progression after the ~200 grit stone?

As I said in one of the posts above, I have no issues moving from the Nano Hone 200 to the SG500 while polishing. Would you expect this to be different with the jump from the MD-20 (or your 180) to the SG500 or the NP400?

Thanks!
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As @zizirex said, tighter progression will make your sharpening shorter for each stone.
To answer your question, I think 200 -> 400 is quite reasonable, I like to keep the progression tighter especially under 1K that's all :)

I am unsure with the MD-20 tho, I've never tried that one, the one I was referring to is this one
Migoto Cutlery | Suehiro LD #180 Grit

The arashiyama is a great stone, a little thirsty for me but finish is great.
 
Kiru said:
As @zizirex said, tighter progression will make your sharpening shorter for each stone.
To answer your question, I think 200 -> 400 is quite reasonable, I like to keep the progression tighter especially under 1K that's all :)

I am unsure with the MD-20 tho, I've never tried that one, the one I was referring to is this one
Migoto Cutlery | Suehiro LD #180 Grit

The arashiyama is a great stone, a little thirsty for me but finish is great.
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Both Debado LD 180 and MD 200 are the same stone. Just different dimension, one is wider, one is thicker. I got the confirmation from Suehiro directly.
 
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Kiru said:
Are you using the LD180 for blade polishing or edge sharpening?
If you're using it for blade polishing I will have to suggest having a stone in between, 180 to 500 is a pretty big jump and personally I think the SG500 is slightly finer than 500 as well.

That being said, I've been using the Suehiro SNE 320 after the 180, and it's working very well for polishing application.
Click to expand...

I can confirm that SG500 will be a bit too weak for erasing the debado 180 scratches. I use a diamond vitrified 400 just after the Debado. Those things are expensive but you don't regret it. Then I use Naniwa pro 400 that is quite fine, almost as fine as SG500.
If I was to go for a 320 or 400 right after Debado 180, I would go for a fast one like Gesshin 400, or maybe just go Naniwa pro 400. I tried Debado sne 320 and I am not a fan (did not feel super fast, wear quite fast, and was a little pain to flatten).
When you're shaping your bevels, it really doesn't matter to use like 3 or 4 coarse stones one after the other, you will generally work faster and cleaner than doing a huge gap.
If I want to make a perfect work, I use Debado 180, then a 180 very hard (namikawa or the hard debado I got), then 400 diamond vitrified, then naniwa pro 400, then naniwa pro 600. After that all is clean and shaped to go mid great with no issue at all.
 
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