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murtazadalgic

Active Member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
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Location
USA
Hello,

IN SUMMARY
I'm using a MAC MTH-80 in pro kitchen for a while.
It's really perfect for my needs, never seen a chip and I use it for almost everything.
I live in Switzerland but one of my friend is in US and we gonna meet soon.
What I'm doing mostly cutting pounds of veggies like zucchini, squash, bell peppers, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions and herbs mostly.
I thinned my MAC and really thin behind the edge but I need longer (something in between 225-240mm) and taller knife (50mm+)
I work on restaurant style poly cutting board, and I think I want neither harder chippier blade nor micro bevels.
My taste is a bit laserish or thin behind the edge. I don't like wedges.
Actually I quite like the HRC and performance of AUS-8 steel and any alternative close to this would be more than welcome.
I'm looking something with Yo handle. But if I don't have any chance I can consider Wa handle.


LOCATION
What country are you in?
Let's think like USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
225 - 240mm Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western-Yo handle. But if I don't have any chance I can consider Wa handle.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
225 - 240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Semi Stainless or Stainless

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Up to $200. If I need to try it and it's over $200 I can go little further.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
%100 Pro usage. I need to be sure that it can handle heavy usage.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing, chopping, mincing veggies. That's all.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Mac MTH-80. Thinned. Thin behind the edge.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Varies based on what I'm doing.
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Push cutter mostly, rocker when mincing rosemary/garlic/parsley.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

I need something longer and taller. About edge retention... I don't really care, 57-60HRC is perfect for me I think. I also refresh the edge on whetstones.


Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Don't really care.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Don't really know the difference .

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I hate wedging. It needs to be cutting like hot butter. I think I'm mostly on laserish side.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I sharpen my knives a lot. Mostly quick refreshes on 3k.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Plastic / polyethilen cutting boards.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, I have 400, 800, 3k.
I also use MAC black and white honing rods.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
N/A

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
I don't think I need more.
No.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
It seems most of AUS-8, or for example Kanehide PS60 are shorter than 50mm.
I don't have any knowledge about SKD tool steel. Do you prefer that?
The most important thing for me is working like a MAC MTH-80 but taller and longer.
I wanted to ask you about any more alternatives than a MAC MBK-95.


Best
Murt
 
You could do a lot worse in that price range than another MAC Pro. The 9.5 inch would meet your length requirements. You already know they can take a beating in a pro kitchen.

In the $200 USD range there are a lot more knives available in Wa handles than Yo. The Ashai cited above would be a very solid choice with a western handle. Takamura makes some nice western handle knives as well - available through MTC and others.

Don't know about availability but the En from JKI is among my favorites in that price bracket with a wa handle - stainless, very thin tip, a little more robust body. If you want the taller blade a Masashi is a solid choice as well.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all. I'm adding those to my compare list.
I never heard Oishi Ao-Zora before.

About Ashi Ginga... What are the benefits comparing with Aus-8?
And I'm gonna ask the same question with Aus-10 also?
I'm pretty sure it's an upgrade but don't know which way...
 
If you can up your budget some, I'd also look at Kashima Sanjo, Yoshikane and Gengetsu as options. Takamura is nice but under your heel height. Masashi meets the tallness and has Yoshikane influence.
 
Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef 240mm? It should be around $180, yo-handled, and in ABE-L (you'd like it if you like AUS-8).
Misono 440 240mm should be also in the same price range. It's very popular and comes with good F&F.
If you want to try something different, Glestain 240mm could be another option with $20+ extra.

To be honest, AUS-8, AUS-10, VG10 or VG5 are not so different [citation needed]. You might want to try powder steel if you want to feel some difference. Tojiro R2 240 around $230 could be an option (but 48mm height).
 
M1k3 said:
If you can up your budget some, I'd also look at Kashima Sanjo, Yoshikane and Gengetsu as options. Takamura is nice but under your heel height. Masashi meets the tallness and has Yoshikane influence.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Takamura R2 or HSPS are really popular. But I'm little afraid of R2 steel in pro kitchen. Also as you said it's under. Gengetsu again really popular in here but way over my budget. But my question is have you ever experienced Yoshikane SKD or SLD (I don't know the difference) in pro kitchen? Can I abuse it like a MAC without any chipping etc?
 
ojisan said:
Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef 240mm? It should be around $180, yo-handled, and in ABE-L (you'd like it if you like AUS-8).
Misono 440 240mm should be also in the same price range. It's very popular and comes with good F&F.
If you want to try something different, Glestain 240mm could be another option with $20+ extra.

To be honest, AUS-8, AUS-10, VG10 or VG5 are not so different [citation needed]. You might want to try powder steel if you want to feel some difference. Tojiro R2 240 around $230 could be an option (but 48mm height).
Click to expand...

Misono has really good biting I know. One of a sous chef has it. But it's way under the heel height that I need. I believe R2 is not really good fit for poly cutting board. (if you don't have a micro bevel on it)
 
akifusa srs15 has proven quite tough for its stated hardness. i also like the kurosakis in r2. not chippy at all.
the akifusa will probably be thinner than your mac. the 240 is 170g. might feel flimsy.

i dont think you are going to find something as tough as the steel you have unfortunately. at least not if its going to be harder.
it could come close though. if you want higher performance it usually involves thinner blades and harder steel. and that would usually make the blades more delicate and brittle. i dont think there is any way around it. maybe aeb-l at 2 hrc more than the one you have will be just as tough. maybe.

sld/skd will probably be chippier, and 2-3-4 hrc harder.
 
inferno said:
akifusa srs15 has proven quite tough for its stated hardness. i also like the kurosakis in r2. not chippy at all.
the akifusa will probably be thinner than your mac. the 240 is 170g. might feel flimsy.

i dont think you are going to find something as tough as the steel you have unfortunately. at least not if its going to be harder.
it could come close though. if you want higher performance it usually involves thinner blades and harder steel. and that would usually make the blades more delicate and brittle. i dont think there is any way around it. maybe aeb-l at 2 hrc more than the one you have will be just as tough. maybe.

sld/skd will probably be chippier, and 2-3-4 hrc harder.
Click to expand...

Akifusa SRS15 seems interesting. Let me read more threads about it.
 
swedish steel could be anything. after reading the text on japanny i'm not even sure its stainless.
 
Honestly pretty much every steel has the same chances of surviving. Depends on the user. Giving a crap about the knife edge is the first step. Beyond that some technique modifications are all that's needed. No real babying needed. Stainless has the added benefit of stainless.

Using your knife as a Leatherman multi-tool is a good way to ruin your knife. Just cut with it.

P.S. Your knife isn't an exe either.
 
I think the closest you're gonna get to all of your requirements (prioritizing thin grind and resilient steel) is the kono HD2 240 western. It's on sale for $250:

https://www.**************.com/kohd2gy24we.html
The problem is that most of the AUS8 chrome/moly knives don't really have the grind you're looking for, because the steel can't hold an edge at extreme geometries. I know. I took my MAC MBK85 down pretty low and started having real obvious edge degradation issues.

You'll probably need to kick up to AUS10, ginsanko, or the powdered steels to find what you want in a stainless western, but that's gonna kick up your price range. And if you really wanted a killer stainless 240 western, you'd have to shell out big bucks for like a Takamura HSPS Pro, one of the new Ryusens, or the srs15 gyutos whenever they restock.

But the kono hd2 above is a legendary blade in terms of being like *the* prototypical laser, the grind will be excellent, and the semi-stainless steel will function much like stainless in the kitchen. It will patina but will not rust absent serious abuse.

So I would pay the $250 and get the western kono hd2. It will already have the geometry you're looking for, and at 49.5mm tall, it's just 0.5mm shorter than you're looking for -- not even perceptible.
 
Last edited:
chiffonodd said:
I think the closest you're gonna get to all of your requirements (prioritizing thin grind and resilient steel) is the kono HD2 240 western. It's on sale for $250:

https://www.**************.com/kohd2gy24we.html
The problem is that most of the AUS8 chrome/moly knives don't really have the grind you're looking for, because the steel can't hold an edge at extreme geometries. I know. I took my MAC MBK85 down pretty low and startes having real obvious edge degradation issues.

You'll probably need to kick up to AUS10, ginsanko, or the powdered steels to find what you want in a stainless western, but that's gonna kick up your prics range. And if you really wanted a killer stainless 240 western, you'd have to shell out big bucks for like a Takamura HSPS Pro or one of the new Ryusens.

But the kono hd2 above is a legendary blade in terms of being like *the* prototypical laser, the grind will be excellent, and the semi-stainless steel will function much like stainless in the kitchen. It will patina but will not rust absent serious abuse.

So I would pay the $250 and get the western kono hd2. It will already have the geometry you're looking for, and at 49.5mm tall, it's just 0.5mm shorter than you're looking for -- not even perceptible.
Click to expand...

Well apparently you still can't link to CKTG here but that's the vendor.
 
Thank you so much guys God bless you all. I have enough alternatives to do my homework now. But this Konosuke HD2 is so tempting! Probably gonna feel better with it.
 
murtazadalgic said:
Thank you all. I'm adding those to my compare list.
I never heard Oishi Ao-Zora before.

About Ashi Ginga... What are the benefits comparing with Aus-8?
And I'm gonna ask the same question with Aus-10 also?
I'm pretty sure it's an upgrade but don't know which way...
Click to expand...
murtazadalgic said:
Thank you all. I'm adding those to my compare list.
I never heard Oishi Ao-Zora before.

About Ashi Ginga... What are the benefits comparing with Aus-8?
And I'm gonna ask the same question with Aus-10 also?
I'm pretty sure it's an upgrade but don't know which way...
Click to expand...
Ashi is AEBL (ginsanko twin). arguably the best stainless steel on the market (even with the addition of all the new powdered steels out there). It’s tough, edge lasts forever. extremely finely grained..as stainless as it gets and sharpens like a carbon. The Ashi has a great profile (Very thin like you asked for. The “hot knife through butter“ applies here). It is one of the four horsemen of the lasers, Suisin IH (too spendy), Tadatsuna (OOS), Kono HD (not stainless) and Ashi. The HD2 will certainly fight stain, but it’s different than stainless. Ginga ftw (Even tho I have an SIH 🤣)
 
QCDawg said:
Ashi is AEBL (ginsanko twin). arguably the best stainless steel on the market (even with the addition of all the new powdered steels out there). It’s tough, edge lasts forever. extremely finely grained..as stainless as it gets and sharpens like a carbon. The Ashi has a great profile (Very thin like you asked for. The “hot knife through butter“ applies here). It is one of the four horsemen of the lasers, Suisin IH (too spendy), Tadatsuna (OOS), Kono HD (not stainless) and Ashi. The HD2 will certainly fight stain, but it’s different than stainless. Ginga ftw (Even tho I have an SIH 🤣)
Click to expand...


Wow, thank you so much for your comprehensive answer. Honestly I was thinking HD2 but this comment opens a new page.

I have two questions to you all.

1) What is the difference between the Ashi Ginga and Gesshin Ginga and which one do you suggest me more? Cause as far as I can see Ashi is shorter than Gesshin. And I really need something taller.

2) Sometimes I'm not really careful to wipe down my MAC. It can stay sort of wet like 20 minutes. So on HD2, do I need to be careful like a carbon knife or is it ok? I'm sorry I don't have much experience with semi stainless especially Konosuke.
 
murtazadalgic said:
Wow, thank you so much for your comprehensive answer. Honestly I was thinking HD2 but this comment opens a new page.

I have two questions to you all.

1) What is the difference between the Ashi Ginga and Gesshin Ginga and which one do you suggest me more? Cause as far as I can see Ashi is shorter than Gesshin. And I really need something taller.

gesshin is special ordered..by the vendor...has a few different tweaks. Comes with a saya..more expensive. U can’t go wrong with either

2) Sometimes I'm not really careful to wipe down my MAC. It can stay sort of wet like 20 minutes. So on HD2, do I need to be careful like a carbon knife or is it ok? I'm sorry I don't have much experience with semi stainless especially Konosuke.
Click to expand...

ashi will be more receptive to abuse. But 20 min will probably only leave a stain on the HD2. your whole HD2 will start to “go grey” over time. The AEBL won’t change appearance. Neither will “rust”.. unless you try.
 
basically your mac is aus8 at 60 or so hrc. and the only tougher steel will be aeb-l/13c26 at 60hrc. and if you increase the hardness to 62 it will be less tough.

now all steels above 1%C and 14-15% Cr will be less tough in general. and the harder they get the more brittle!

but i feel r2 and srs15 might be good for you anyway. its more brittle for sure but not overly.
 
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