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Özgün

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Hello guys, I'm new here. Cheers from Turkey.

I've been thinking getting a new chef's knife next summer. I'm not a pro, not a chef, just a home chef you could say, so I didn't get the chance to try lots of different knives. I've used a few cheapo european style chef knives and my only "good" knife was Global G2. But I sold it.

At first I liked the knife. It was beautiful, light, quite sharp. But not that much. Now I must inform you that I'm a professional luthier, a sharpening enthusiast and a traditional wetshaver using straight razors. I use hss carving blades like 66rockwells, or pure carbon blades, so I know very well what good sharpeness or thoughness is, which global g2 doesn't have either of these.

What the problem of g2 was for me:

-after some time I realized that being light as a feather wasn't my thing. I needed to use more force when it comes to hard or fast chopping.It was tiring and unbalanced.

-steel was too soft and lost its edge reasonably fast.

-The place where the blade and the handle meet was so flimsy and proned to bent easily. I hated that.

-the sharpness from that steel was not %100 satisfactory.

As living in Turkey, I cannot order knives by myself, but a friend can bring one with himself. So my friend will bring one this summer what I choose, and I'm plannig to use that knife a long time. So this needs to be a one shot. One good shot. Thus I need your help guys.

I see ************** has lots of nice japanese knives, but its so hard to choose without trying them. Plus I couldn't decided yet whether I want a european or japanese. I like the heft of europeans but precision of japanese ones. I looked for messermeister meridian elites, shuns, macs etc. And all the nice looking japanese knives on the site. Cant decide. But I'm possibly gonna get a wa-gyuto with 50/50 edge.


LOCATION
Turkey, not important, knife will be bought from usa.



KNIFE TYPE
chef’s knife

Are you right or left handed?
left handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
japanese handle, but it's not a must

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Between 210-240mm, 210 prefably

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
not a must but yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
200-250$ at max



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

at home as home cook, cooking enthusiast.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, general use.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Global g2

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

push, rocking, slicing from heel to tip in one motion like sushi chefs do(dont know the name)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

harder steel, more heft, better edge durability, more sharpness, better general quality, at least 7oz weight or over, spine thicknes more than 2,5mm

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

If possible I'd love a damascus pattern, and a hammered profile, together or not. A looker is important to me than a plain one.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Now I want a bit hefty knife, that can chop much more easily than global knives, but not as heavy as a thick european, blade heavy. I dont want a thin spined laser knife, I want a sharp, durable work horse that will do rocking motion easily.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

if possible I dont want reactive carbon steel, being able to easy push cuts, rocking motions and heavy chopping altgohether is important.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Very important, I want a knife at least 61-62 rockwells.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Gonna get wood.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes, I don't have a bit problem of sharpening any kind of cutting tools thanks to my job.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
I have almost anthing, tons of stones, pastes, sprays strops etc.

SPECIAL REGUESTS
Forged or better -Hand forged-, damascus steel, if possible for this price. :/ I HATE knives made from slab steels to death..:nono:



A fellow friend suggested me to look for Kochi for carbon and Gesshin Uraku 210mm gyuto.

Though Gesshin is praised by many it looks a bit too plain to me. A damascus wouldn't hurt, or at least a hammered pattern. Or a hamon.

I find these knives, what do you think? and what other alternatives can you suggest(can be european too)

http://www.**************.com/kaanasgy24.html
http://www.**************.com/tska21gy.html
http://www.**************.com/tohafodagy21.html

Thanks in advance
Özgün
 
Özgün;248124 said:
Hello guys, I'm new here. Cheers from Turkey.

I've been thinking getting a new chef's knife next summer. I'm not a pro, not a chef, just a home chef you could say, so I didn't get the chance to try lots of different knives. I've used a few cheapo european style chef knives and my only "good" knife was Global G2. But I sold it.

At first I liked the knife. It was beautiful, light, quite sharp. But not that much. Now I must inform you that I'm a professional luthier, a sharpening enthusiast and a traditional wetshaver using straight razors. I use hss carving blades like 66rockwells, or pure carbon blades, so I know very well what good sharpeness or thoughness is, which global g2 doesn't have either of these.

What the problem of g2 was for me:

-after some time I realized that being light as a feather wasn't my thing. I needed to use more force when it comes to hard or fast chopping.It was tiring and unbalanced.

-steel was too soft and lost its edge reasonably fast.

-The place where the blade and the handle meet was so flimsy and proned to bent easily. I hated that.

-the sharpness from that steel was not %100 satisfactory.

As living in Turkey, I cannot order knives by myself, but a friend can bring one with himself. So my friend will bring one this summer what I choose, and I'm plannig to use that knife a long time. So this needs to be a one shot. One good shot. Thus I need your help guys.

I see ************** has lots of nice japanese knives, but its so hard to choose without trying them. Plus I couldn't decided yet whether I want a european or japanese. I like the heft of europeans but precision of japanese ones. I looked for messermeister meridian elites, shuns, macs etc. And all the nice looking japanese knives on the site. Cant decide. But I'm possibly gonna get a wa-gyuto with 50/50 edge.


LOCATION
Turkey, not important, knife will be bought from usa.



KNIFE TYPE
chef’s knife

Are you right or left handed?
left handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
japanese handle, but it's not a must

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Between 210-240mm, 210 prefably

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
not a must but yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
200-250$ at max



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

at home as home cook, cooking enthusiast.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, general use.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Global g2

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

push, rocking, slicing from heel to tip in one motion like sushi chefs do(dont know the name)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

harder steel, more heft, better edge durability, more sharpness, better general quality, at least 7oz weight or over, spine thicknes more than 2,5mm

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

If possible I'd love a damascus pattern, and a hammered profile, together or not. A looker is important to me than a plain one.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Now I want a bit hefty knife, that can chop much more easily than global knives, but not as heavy as a thick european, blade heavy. I dont want a thin spined laser knife, I want a sharp, durable work horse that will do rocking motion easily.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

if possible I dont want reactive carbon steel, being able to easy push cuts, rocking motions and heavy chopping altgohether is important.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Very important, I want a knife at least 61-62 rockwells.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Gonna get wood.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes, I don't have a bit problem of sharpening any kind of cutting tools thanks to my job.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
I have almost anthing, tons of stones, pastes, sprays strops etc.

SPECIAL REGUESTS
Forged or better -Hand forged-, damascus steel, if possible for this price. :/ I HATE knives made from slab steels to death..:nono:



A fellow friend suggested me to look for Kochi for carbon and Gesshin Uraku 210mm gyuto.

Though Gesshin is praised by many it looks a bit too plain to me. A damascus wouldn't hurt, or at least a hammered pattern. Or a hamon.

I find these knives, what do you think? and what other alternatives can you suggest(can be european too)

http://www.**************.com/kaanasgy24.html
http://www.**************.com/tska21gy.html
http://www.**************.com/tohafodagy21.html

Thanks in advance
Özgün

links to that site are not allowed here and wont work....if you say which knives those are I would like to know too
 
Ok sorry,

Katsushige Anryu Gyuto 240mm
Kajihara 210mm Gyuto
Tojiro Hand Forged Damascus Gyuto 210mm
 
Greetings! You will likely have a few nice choices with good steel/heat treat and good weight. I would suggest including JKI and JNS in your search. Depending on where you are shipping I would also suggest shopping at japanesechefsknife.com as they tend to help on import fees.

Cheers
 
Looking for both higher hardness and toughness than with your Global won't be easy. The Globals are very though. I can't imagine you experienced a lack of toughness with them.
 
going with chinacats suggestion of JCK (japanesechefknife.com) I have heard nothing but good things about theyre knives the Carbonext or the Fu Rin Za lines....they also sell Tojiro there as well
 
Özgün;248124 said:
slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, general use.

Gyutos are not generally recommend for breaking poultry bones...better keep a beater on hand for those tasks
 
Gyutos are not generally recommend for breaking poultry bones...better keep a beater on hand for those tasks

I know that, I mistakenly added that line. I'd never use a knife to broke bones, I'd rather use a cleaver. I need a general use knife with some heft so basically looking for a bit thicker wa gyuto or a good european, definately not a laser knife. Plus I don't think global g2 is by any means a though knife, or has a though edge. To me its very flimsy and delicate and has a very soft steel at 58 rockwell.
 
Özgün;248354 said:
I know that, I mistakenly added that line. I'd never use a knife to broke bones, I'd rather use a cleaver. I need a general use knife with some heft so basically looking for a bit thicker wa gyuto or a good european, definately not a laser knife. Plus I don't think global g2 is by any means a though knife, or has a though edge. To me its very flimsy and delicate and has a very soft steel at 58 rockwell.

how about this Watanabe?

Thick at the spine, kuroichi finish only downfall is it is only 180mm if you are just a home cook this would be perfect though...
 
I'm afraid the OP's mixing up strength and toughness. Besides that, if you call the very convexed Global's very flimsy and delicate, I'm not sure you will find anything to your taste amongst Japanese blades.
 
I'm afraid the OP's mixing up strength and toughness. Besides that, if you call the very convexed Global's very flimsy and delicate, I'm not sure you will find anything to your taste amongst Japanese blades.

Yo do not need to afraid, I now the difference between strength and toughness. Soft steels having better thoughness than hard brittle steels is not always true if you had any experience with hss cutting tools like in my job. A steel can be both very hard and though and not too much brittle depending on the alloy elements. I do not like convex edges and always use v edge on my tools. That highly praised cromova steel is no more than a plastic like soft steel to me. Weak, soft, not too tough, not strong either. Plus I don't think it has that small grain size to take a satisfactory sharp edge, even when you think the spine thickness and flat grind. So please if you have -any- suggestion -other than- globals I'l be very happy.

I'm not looking for sintered powder steels, or steels like vg-10 which I hate. It can be karbon if not too reactive, a balanced stainless or good tool steel like m2 or m6. But I dont know if there are knives with these steels in my budget. Rather than where to buy knives, could you guys actually suggest which knies to choose depending your experience.
 
how about this Watanabe?

Thick at the spine, kuroichi finish only downfall is it is only 180mm if you are just a home cook this would be perfect though...

Well I think 180 mm is a bit too small for my preference. I need something between 210 to 240.
 
I think you may like a Kochi found here. It's V-2 steel from Takefu and has a kurouchi finish to help with reactivity. The kurouchi finish on this knife is particularly nice and overall fit and finish is exceptional. A very serious kitchen tool. It can be sharpened to extreme angles and is fairly chip resistant but hard in a good way. It's at the top of your price range but it gets you a pretty high end knife.
 
I think you may like a Kochi found here. It's V-2 steel from Takefu and has a kurouchi finish to help with reactivity. The kurouchi finish on this knife is particularly nice and overall fit and finish is exceptional. A very serious kitchen tool. It can be sharpened to extreme angles and is fairly chip resistant but hard in a good way. It's at the top of your price range but it gets you a pretty high end knife.

I like the 240mm version, how reactive is that steel? I cannot use something as reactive as opinels or TI razors. And the edge is 50/50 right?
 
All (almost) Japanese knives are somewhat asymmetrical. This thread explains it fairly well. The knife does not steer when cutting if that is your concern.
The core steel is very easy to sharpen, it is not extremely reactive like some steels but it is carbon and will rust if left wet. The exterior finish is a rather smooth grainy surface that protects the cladded part of the knife from reacting. As to sharpening, you can sharpen very aggressively angle wise and still have a very strong edge that is extremely sharp.
 
If you are looking for reasonable hardness and good toughness I'd seriously consider an SKD/SLD tool steel knife. A Yoshikane SKD hammered fufils your "interesting, hand finished" criteria and falls just inside your budget. These knives run long for wa-gyuto (my 240mm is 259mm handle-to-tip). Yoshikane also make SLD damascus blades, but these are far more expensive.
 
Since I just used mine, I thought I would mention that the Hiromoto Gingami series is a nice balance between hardness, toughness, stain-resistance and sharpness potential. Not too heavy, not too light.
 
Btw, Özgün, is there some kind of import restriction that prevent you from ordering knives directly from overseas? It occurred to me yesterday that you might be more suited to Chinese slicers and cleavers?
 
Ozgun of the knives you listed,I like the Katsushige Anryu Gyuto.It is a San Mai blade with Aogami 2 blue steel core & stainless hammered clad.I have a Hammered gyuto with the Aogami 2,it is all carbon not san mai.I like the looks of the hammered blades & they are functional as well.The hammer finish on the Katsushige looks very nice.

What kind of knives do the cooks & street vendors use in Turkey?
 
That yoshikane looks sweet. Though a bit light and has a d shaped handle, as I'm left handed, that might be a problem for me. :/

Seb, if I buy a kapanese knife, I'll buy it with a traditional handle. I don't like the look of european type handles on japanese knives. Looks unnatural to me. And yes it's restiricted to buy(import) knives in Turkey, cause of the stupid customs. So the knife will be bringed back to me from usa by a friend. I so rarely use a cleaver, I just need a sharper knife with the abilities of the european types.

Keith, another friend said he liked the katsushige too. Well most of the low end and middle of the road cooks use our regularly shaped kitchen knives like this:

file_24_3-2.jpg


They are not agile, not too ergonomic with ugly thick handles, not good with rocking or chopping motion. But good for slicing, and can be very sharp. But manufacturers mostly use french slab t7 steels, they can get very sharp but too soft to keep their edges and need constant steeling. I hate these knives. Badly made mostly. Dont ever expect good build quality. But yes they do the job.

As for the fewew high-end chefs working in much better places, most of them use european type chef knives like wusthof, henckles etc. Japanese type santoku use are rare, genuine japanese knives are extremely rare, as there are none sold to speak of in the country. And so few people know about them. The best quality knives sold here are wusthof, shun and globals. And they have been sold here for the last few years. So high end kitchen/chef knives are a new thing to turkish people. People like me, home cooks seeking for high end knives are extremely rare. Maybe one in a thousand or less.
 
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