Need help with my next stone

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Hi guys, I currently have Debado 180, SG 320, Cerax 320, SG 500, NP 800, SP 2000, NP 3000 and Cerax 1k/6k combo. I am quite happy with the finish on SP 2k or NP 3k but keen to try a higher grit finish (still toothy but more refined, polish means nothing to me). I have read many posts and it seems like SP 8k/12k, SG 10k/16k and Morihei 9k are highly recommended. If you were to choose one, which one would you pick and why? Do I need a 6k or 8k stone in between?

I am going to Japan next month so I am hoping to find myself some new knives and stones. Thanks heaps!
 
Hi guys, I currently have Debado 180, SG 320, Cerax 320, SG 500, NP 800, SP 2000, NP 3000 and Cerax 1k/6k combo. I am quite happy with the finish on SP 2k or NP 3k but keen to try a higher grit finish (still toothy but more refined, polish means nothing to me). I have read many posts and it seems like SP 8k/12k, SG 10k/16k and Morihei 9k are highly recommended. If you were to choose one, which one would you pick and why? Do I need a 6k or 8k stone in between?

I am going to Japan next month so I am hoping to find myself some new knives and stones. Thanks heaps!
Refined, yet toothy - I guess @ian is the expert, then :)

I have an NP 2000, I'm usually happy with the finish on this, but also sometimes finish on my Morihei 4k. I see no reason to go higher grit than this on a kitchen knife. Did you try with the Cerax 6k side? Is that closer to where you want to be?
 
Refined, yet toothy - I guess @ian is the expert, then :)

I have an NP 2000, I'm usually happy with the finish on this, but also sometimes finish on my Morihei 4k. I see no reason to go higher grit than this on a kitchen knife. Did you try with the Cerax 6k side? Is that closer to where you want to be?
To be honest I don't feel much difference after the Cerax 6k from my SP2k. But I do feel after the 6k my edge gets dull a bit quicker. I have always wanted to try the NP2k but it is quite expensive in my country.
 
I haven't noticed quicker dulling from the 4k, but one could imagine that a bit more toothiness from a 2k would make the edge cut through e.g. tomato skin easier even if the edge retention is the same. But agree, freshly sharpened on a 2k or 4k feels more or less the same to me.
Note: Not an expert by any stretch. Most people in here are better at sharpening and know more about different stones than me, just my 2 cents :)
 
I agree with others that the problem you pose screams for a natural. My favorites for finishing a toothy-but-keen kitchen edge are Aizu, BBW, Washita, and Dan's Soft Ark. A BBW or Dan's Soft Ark would be around the same price range as some of the synthetics you're considering, depending on size. I'd probably wind up with the BBW because they are fun to work with, as well as very effective.
 
I concur that natural stones typically provide bitier edges at higher grits, and likewise agree with many of the proffered options (Big fan of Dan's Arks, and also Belgian stones in general.). However, I shudder to think the shipping cost of getting a Dan's Arkansas stone of any persuasion (The only brand I would recommend... Most others aren't lapped properly, and an improperly lapped Ark is a nightmare.) to Australia... The prices of BBW's & Coti's appears to be very high in Australia, as well: Belgischer Brocken Blue. Belgian Ardennes whetstone with a grit of 5000 .

If you're going to Japan, looking for a J-Nat would probably be a more economical option if you want to go down the natural stone road. I am not familiar with the process of retail shopping for such a thing in Japan, but there do seem to be some good brick & mortar stone and knife shops, and you could probably get some help from one of them to select a stone. Even my cheapest little Aiiwatani Kiita koppa Lv. 3-3.5 tends to create edges that last a bit longer, and have a bit more bite (Caveat: on suitable steels.) than 6-8K synths. I'd say looking for a Lv. 2.5-3 finisher would work fine, and jump up from an NP 3K finish just fine.

My advice, if you want to try a less expensive solution, would be to pick up some 1-Micron diamond paste/spray on a hard balsa or similar strop to follow up the SP 2K or NP 3K you already have. A big jump like this creates a so called 'hybrid' edge, polishing the existing teeth a bit more, and amping up the sharpness while still preserving some bite. This technique also tends to work on a very wide variety of knives in different steels/HRC's, whereas some natural stones can be a bit more 'specific' in how they respond to different steels/heat treatments.

Hope this helps.
 
I realized that I forgot about 5 of my favorite knife finishers, but they're all JNats so it didn't really fit the question, which is why I forgot them in the first place. For the record:

Okudo Suita
Ohira Suita
Chu Nagura
Shobudani Suita
Nakayama Suita

Subtle minds may detect a recurring theme.
 
I realized that I forgot about 5 of my favorite knife finishers, but they're all JNats so it didn't really fit the question, which is why I forgot them in the first place. For the record:

Okudo Suita
Ohira Suita
Chu Nagura
Shobudani Suita
Nakayama Suita

Subtle minds may detect a recurring theme.
thanks! well I think I may start researching these Jnats.
 
I concur that natural stones typically provide bitier edges at higher grits, and likewise agree with many of the proffered options (Big fan of Dan's Arks, and also Belgian stones in general.). However, I shudder to think the shipping cost of getting a Dan's Arkansas stone of any persuasion (The only brand I would recommend... Most others aren't lapped properly, and an improperly lapped Ark is a nightmare.) to Australia... The prices of BBW's & Coti's appears to be very high in Australia, as well: Belgischer Brocken Blue. Belgian Ardennes whetstone with a grit of 5000 .

If you're going to Japan, looking for a J-Nat would probably be a more economical option if you want to go down the natural stone road. I am not familiar with the process of retail shopping for such a thing in Japan, but there do seem to be some good brick & mortar stone and knife shops, and you could probably get some help from one of them to select a stone. Even my cheapest little Aiiwatani Kiita koppa Lv. 3-3.5 tends to create edges that last a bit longer, and have a bit more bite (Caveat: on suitable steels.) than 6-8K synths. I'd say looking for a Lv. 2.5-3 finisher would work fine, and jump up from an NP 3K finish just fine.

My advice, if you want to try a less expensive solution, would be to pick up some 1-Micron diamond paste/spray on a hard balsa or similar strop to follow up the SP 2K or NP 3K you already have. A big jump like this creates a so called 'hybrid' edge, polishing the existing teeth a bit more, and amping up the sharpness while still preserving some bite. This technique also tends to work on a very wide variety of knives in different steels/HRC's, whereas some natural stones can be a bit more 'specific' in how they respond to different steels/heat treatments.

Hope this helps.
great insight! I will definitely try the damond paste and see what I can find in Japan.
 
Personally, the best edges I get for kitchen cutlery are from a Dan’s hard Ark (not True Hard). This is close to a 6K synth edge. It has just the right amount of bite and sharpness for knives with very fine cutting edges.
A very close second to this is an Ohira Suita but this is quite a bit more ¥¥¥.
Thanks, The Ohira white suita is quite expensive, let me see if I can find Dan's hard ark in Australia.
 
Are you set on it being a synth? What knife are you using? Usually if you see a degradation in edge quality using the 6K after the 2K, it's more likely that you're rolling over the apex when you're using the 6k instead of it being an issue with the stone itself.
My knives are all Japanese carbon steels. According to everyone's responses I guess I would explore the Jnats options now.
 
Okay... If that's your current J-Nat collection, combined with your set of synths, you've already got a really good collection of tools to achieve excellent culinary edges on most Japanese carbon steels (Some HT's of AS can exceed what J-Nats can shape, but generally what you've got can shape Aogami #1 up to 64hrc at least.). Playing around with 6-12K synths is a step in the wrong direction if you're looking for a toothy/sharp edge.

Definitely play with some stropping compounds and hybrid edges, if what's coming off an Ohira or Shobudoni Suita just can't satisfy... Coming off a J-Nat, you might try very minimal stropping (Just a couple strokes) with 0.5 or 0.25 micron compounds to at least get your deburring sorted if what you're getting straight off the rock ain't satisfactory. Past 1-micron, I prefer a thin, hard leather, like Kangaroo. It has less silica contaminates than wood, which helps when extracting the best from sub-micron compounds.

If what you're digging is a 2-3K synth edge, doing a hybrid edge with a 1-micron paste might get you where you want to go.

Hope this helps.
 
I realized that I forgot about 5 of my favorite knife finishers, but they're all JNats so it didn't really fit the question, which is why I forgot them in the first place. For the record:

Okudo Suita
Ohira Suita
Chu Nagura
Shobudani Suita
Nakayama Suita

Subtle minds may detect a recurring theme.

Hmmmmm… Something must be wrong with your computer because the pictures of your suita’s aren’t loading. Especially that Nakayama Suita.
 
Heh. Oh, all right. Tomorrow.
Here is my Ohira Suita next to a Nakayama Asagi, and chewing up a white-paper Deba. Great stone with a nice wide range.


9A268710-D529-4498-A3B6-E442E889FB9D.jpeg

E5E88F99-5764-47F7-B911-70AB2E73312A.jpeg

2978A290-378A-462E-A493-5D2580EC6601.jpeg

3CFE3C91-D1FE-40D5-B85E-4440CE1FBA0A.jpeg
 
I concur that natural stones typically provide bitier edges at higher grits, and likewise agree with many of the proffered options (Big fan of Dan's Arks, and also Belgian stones in general.). However, I shudder to think the shipping cost of getting a Dan's Arkansas stone of any persuasion (The only brand I would recommend... Most others aren't lapped properly, and an improperly lapped Ark is a nightmare.) to Australia... The prices of BBW's & Coti's appears to be very high in Australia, as well: Belgischer Brocken Blue. Belgian Ardennes whetstone with a grit of 5000 .

If you're going to Japan, looking for a J-Nat would probably be a more economical option if you want to go down the natural stone road. I am not familiar with the process of retail shopping for such a thing in Japan, but there do seem to be some good brick & mortar stone and knife shops, and you could probably get some help from one of them to select a stone. Even my cheapest little Aiiwatani Kiita koppa Lv. 3-3.5 tends to create edges that last a bit longer, and have a bit more bite (Caveat: on suitable steels.) than 6-8K synths. I'd say looking for a Lv. 2.5-3 finisher would work fine, and jump up from an NP 3K finish just fine.

My advice, if you want to try a less expensive solution, would be to pick up some 1-Micron diamond paste/spray on a hard balsa or similar strop to follow up the SP 2K or NP 3K you already have. A big jump like this creates a so called 'hybrid' edge, polishing the existing teeth a bit more, and amping up the sharpness while still preserving some bite. This technique also tends to work on a very wide variety of knives in different steels/HRC's, whereas some natural stones can be a bit more 'specific' in how they respond to different steels/heat treatments.

Hope this helps.
It looks like Dan's Arkansas stones are available in Australia for not totally insane prices. For a BBW you could get directly from Ardennes-Coticule, reasonable shipping cost, comes out cheaper than buying in this part of the world.
 
Hi guys, I currently have Debado 180, SG 320, Cerax 320, SG 500, NP 800, SP 2000, NP 3000 and Cerax 1k/6k combo. I am quite happy with the finish on SP 2k or NP 3k but keen to try a higher grit finish (still toothy but more refined, polish means nothing to me). I have read many posts and it seems like SP 8k/12k, SG 10k/16k and Morihei 9k are highly recommended. If you were to choose one, which one would you pick and why? Do I need a 6k or 8k stone in between?

I am going to Japan next month so I am hoping to find myself some new knives and stones. Thanks.
The totally reliable Arashiyama 6K, while apparently not glamorous, deserves a big mention. Good as splash & go, quick dip, or soaker, giving different results. It feels good and sounds good in any case. It seems quite versatile with good steel. If someone already mentioned it, apologies.
 
I agree with the jnat suggestion. 6k and up is where start seeing “too smooth” for my own kitchen use.

Sooooo I have like 7-8 finisher I use when I want to laser through stuff at high grit, otherwise I keep it pretty low. Say a ~4k aoto for general use. Edge quality and fun factor are better than synth in my eyes. Consistency/ease down though.

Something like an aizu down low and a soft finisher would be nice to snag in Japan!
 
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