Never made an Italian tomato sauce. What's you best recipe?
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make a base by pan frying garlic, shallot, onion, bay leaf, pancetta & guanciale or proscuitto & bacon, red pepper flake, deglaze with white wine, i do add heavy cream and reduce, whisk egg yolks separate, toss it all together once pasta is done cooking. add grated parm or pecorino, cracked peppercorn medley(pink, green, black), and garnish with parsley and squeeze of lemon.
yes, it's awesome for breakfast
yes, it's awesome for breakfast
HRC_64
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Cabonara is something that can be done very lightly on the ingredients.
the dish is meant to be a protein-fortified peasant dish (pasta with oil+aromatics)
loading the pasta base with protein (eggs, dried cheese, cured meat)
the incredients should all be of shelf, and shelf-stable (eggs, dried cheese, cured meat, black pepper, etc)
AFAIK, fresh cream doesn't fit the dish in any way...
the sauce isn't a cream-sauce, or a cream+cheese sauce.
the sauce is more akin to aglio e olio finished with raw yolk
and cheese (like some risottos)
I know there are some people that do it differently,
but its worth at least hearing the other side of the story.
Edit: i personaly use onion in the base/fat and finish with fresh nutmeg...
but every body is gonna be a bit differnt
the dish is meant to be a protein-fortified peasant dish (pasta with oil+aromatics)
loading the pasta base with protein (eggs, dried cheese, cured meat)
the incredients should all be of shelf, and shelf-stable (eggs, dried cheese, cured meat, black pepper, etc)
AFAIK, fresh cream doesn't fit the dish in any way...
the sauce isn't a cream-sauce, or a cream+cheese sauce.
the sauce is more akin to aglio e olio finished with raw yolk
and cheese (like some risottos)
I know there are some people that do it differently,
but its worth at least hearing the other side of the story.
Edit: i personaly use onion in the base/fat and finish with fresh nutmeg...
but every body is gonna be a bit differnt
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Yes to nutmeg, forgot to mention that.
It's not authentic but I don't like this dish without cream.
It's not authentic but I don't like this dish without cream.
parbaked
Senior Member
If you use only the egg yolks it gets really creamy...
that's good. I was beginning to worry about you!
Made a sauce last weekend from some braised oxtail I had in the freezer. Decided to dive in and make a really wide fresh pasta to go with it. Basically large squares/ rectangles like the 'torn pasta' (can't remember the name right now). The bigger pasta definitely went well with the sauce.
BTW, I used a mix of AP flour and semolina (2:1), which added some texture to the pasta.
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That's what I am making for the kids and even the pickiest (visiting) kids always beg for a second serving ...
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not a tomato sauce, but my go to pasta sauce for an easy dinner when friends are coming over:
diced onion and garlic (about two small onions and 4 garlic), sweated in olive oil ...
Crumble in meat from 4 (about 500 grams) fresh italian fennel sausage (I have an italian butcher here who makes it fresh for me, just the filling ... as the casing would be thrown away anyway ...)
Brown the meat
shower it with a healthy dose of red wine (300ml, but I usually let the sauce cook for a long time so I add more wine later), add a tube or 1.5 small cans of tomato puree (I am generous with the stuff usually), salt, pepper and some sugar ...
That's it!
Couple of things I picked up in Italy from a real Italian mom this summer: put a LOT of salt in the water when it's dry pasta (she literally used two handfuls of sea salt) ... pour a very healthy amount of olive oil over the pasta when in serving bowl (or pot), then another very healthy dose after you put pasta with sauce on your plate ...
diced onion and garlic (about two small onions and 4 garlic), sweated in olive oil ...
Crumble in meat from 4 (about 500 grams) fresh italian fennel sausage (I have an italian butcher here who makes it fresh for me, just the filling ... as the casing would be thrown away anyway ...)
Brown the meat
shower it with a healthy dose of red wine (300ml, but I usually let the sauce cook for a long time so I add more wine later), add a tube or 1.5 small cans of tomato puree (I am generous with the stuff usually), salt, pepper and some sugar ...
That's it!
Couple of things I picked up in Italy from a real Italian mom this summer: put a LOT of salt in the water when it's dry pasta (she literally used two handfuls of sea salt) ... pour a very healthy amount of olive oil over the pasta when in serving bowl (or pot), then another very healthy dose after you put pasta with sauce on your plate ...
parbaked
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Interesting...my Grandmother was from outside of Naples and taught me different. Must be a regional thing...
Yes, lots of salt in the pasta water. I was taught it should be salty like the ocean.
However, I was taught to never oil the pasta before coating it with sauce. The oil prevents the sauce from adhering to the pasta. Likewise, never rinse the cooked pasta before saucing. You want the residual starch to coat the pasta before saucing.
I was taught to always finish cooking the pasta for the last two minutes in the sauce so that the pasta absorbs the flavor of the sauce. Then finish with fresh herbs and a pour of your best olive oil...
Parbaked your GM taught you well. When I think tomato sauce.
I’m thinking something along the lines of a marinara sauce. Sure can through anything in it, o guess. I’m looking to try to create a very pure tensely tomato tomato sauce. The biggest secret that most people miss out on is not sautéing the tomatoes and paste if you’re using it in olive oil until it is brown and sticky. Then add your canned whole tomatoes and let it simmer for an hour or so.
I’m thinking something along the lines of a marinara sauce. Sure can through anything in it, o guess. I’m looking to try to create a very pure tensely tomato tomato sauce. The biggest secret that most people miss out on is not sautéing the tomatoes and paste if you’re using it in olive oil until it is brown and sticky. Then add your canned whole tomatoes and let it simmer for an hour or so.
Honestly this is how I currently make it at work which I understand is the classic Napoli way or so I’m told. (Similar to Cacio di Pepe to me) But I asked panda bc I generally dig his style and while it may not be super traditional I’m not Italian. I do respect Italian cooking when cooking for an Italian missing home but I lean towards panda style. Imo the sauce panda describes is more full bodied. Perhaps it doesn’t appeal to a Napoli man/woman who lives Napoli flavors. I am personally really trying to work on these definitions bc Napoli cooking is pretty but also rather disinterested in anything else.
parbaked
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Italian cooking is super regional.
Carbonara is Roman.
People from Napoli aren't allowed to have an opinion on the correct way to Carbonara...
There's nothing wrong with modifying the classic recipes, but it is good to also master the classic preparation.
At home I often make carbonara with anything that's good with bacon & eggs e.g. mushrooms, spinach, shallots.
The only point of contention is that a Roman would say that carbonara with cream or garlic shouldn't be called carbonara.
As Panda said, it's not authentic but it's tasty.
Carbonara is Roman.
People from Napoli aren't allowed to have an opinion on the correct way to Carbonara...
There's nothing wrong with modifying the classic recipes, but it is good to also master the classic preparation.
At home I often make carbonara with anything that's good with bacon & eggs e.g. mushrooms, spinach, shallots.
The only point of contention is that a Roman would say that carbonara with cream or garlic shouldn't be called carbonara.
As Panda said, it's not authentic but it's tasty.
HRC_64
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[ed: parbaked beat me to it, but Cabonara is not from Naples, but Rome]
At some stage "good cooking" doesn't give a crap about authenticity, its more to the point that sometimes certain dishes are created in certan ways for certain reasons -- to be easy to make, to be nutritionally balanced, to be econmical, locally sourced, etc)
So sometimes its worthwhile to make a note that successful variations can be done in differnt styles.
parbaked
Senior Member
So sometimes its worthwhile to make a note that successful variations can be done in differnt styles.
So true but unlike Panda I can't afford cream...we folk from Napoli be poor!
boomchakabowwow
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True!
Sometimes I just appreciate a bright and vegetal sauce. A squirt of tomato paste helps as well with the glutamates.
PalmRoyale
Senior Member
The sauce turned out very nice. I started with softly frying 2 chopped onions, when they were soft and sweet I added 2 cloves of finely chopped garlic and a bit of tomato paste. I let it fry some more, added the canned tomatoes, a pinch of salt and pepper and basil. I finished it off with a bit of fat from the meatballs.
boomchakabowwow
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Love it.
I forget. I usually add a pinch of red pepper flakes to the oil right before the onions
Someone told me, the smaller the onion dice; the sweeter the final product.
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Which basil and which oregano?
Brown sugar?
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I use butter for the pasta
Late to this party, but I use this as a base recipe: https://www.geniuskitchen.com/recipe/jo-mamas-world-famous-spaghetti-22782
some notes:
- use a good Italian sausage, or find a good recipe for making sausage and season ground pork the same way
- use Italian canned diced tomatoes, or I've found fire roasted in cans works great
- use Italian tomato paste
- use pasata (preferably Italian) for both the tomato sauce and the water.
- I've tended to use a nice Valpolicella Ripasso for the wine.
- I've sometimes added a tablespoon or so of balsamic vinegar.
I've been meaning to try a no-meat version of this. Only trick is to get the flavours that come from the sausage into the rest of the sauce.
some notes:
- use a good Italian sausage, or find a good recipe for making sausage and season ground pork the same way
- use Italian canned diced tomatoes, or I've found fire roasted in cans works great
- use Italian tomato paste
- use pasata (preferably Italian) for both the tomato sauce and the water.
- I've tended to use a nice Valpolicella Ripasso for the wine.
- I've sometimes added a tablespoon or so of balsamic vinegar.
I've been meaning to try a no-meat version of this. Only trick is to get the flavours that come from the sausage into the rest of the sauce.
jacko9
Senior Member
I grow oregano and Italian basil in my garden. I'm not quite sure what kind of oregano since I planted it many years ago and just keep pruning it back a few times a year (it grows in a raised bed planter). The basil I plant every spring from seed and it lasts in our climate until December.
You could through anything in there for flavor, but I guess I;m a purist about some things. I'd rather have sausage on the side than everything tasting like sausage.
Fresh tomatoes (blanched, peeled and seeds removed), twice as many fresh by weight than canned)
Quality whole canned tomatoes
Olive oil
garlic
red peper flake
white wine (semi-dry vermouth)
basil (blanched, pureed into a sauce)
salt
The cooking technique is what makes this sauce so magical.
I've seen several chefs make sauce this way and it's one recipe I'd never change. Everyone that has my sauce is more than impressed. My daughter eats it alone out of the jar.
What I like about this marinara is then you can add other components to it to spice it up after making.
If you're looking for the ultimate rich, zesty, bright, tangy tomato flavor in a. sauce, check out this recipe.
Fresh tomatoes (blanched, peeled and seeds removed), twice as many fresh by weight than canned)
Quality whole canned tomatoes
Olive oil
garlic
red peper flake
white wine (semi-dry vermouth)
basil (blanched, pureed into a sauce)
salt
The cooking technique is what makes this sauce so magical.
- Fry in copious olive oil, the fresh tomatoes until you get a brown paste. Takes a long time, try to get it dry but not burned. You're developing those mailard flavors at this point. Then in another pot sweat some garlic, add pepper flake then add canned tomatoes.
- When the fried tomato paste is ready, add it to the pot of tomatoes.
- Deglase fry pan with white wine, then add to pot of tomatoes.
- Simmer slowly for an hour or until the whole tomatoes soften.
I've seen several chefs make sauce this way and it's one recipe I'd never change. Everyone that has my sauce is more than impressed. My daughter eats it alone out of the jar.
What I like about this marinara is then you can add other components to it to spice it up after making.
If you're looking for the ultimate rich, zesty, bright, tangy tomato flavor in a. sauce, check out this recipe.
Theres such a huge variety. Marcella Hazans simple sauce is a great start. I probably looked up at least 20 + versions of marinara before simplifying it for my taste-laziness and availability of fresh produce.
In a pan:
-olive oil, a bunch
-garlic, sliced thin and toasted golden on lowish heat
-onions and shallots are optional, some recipes say marinara shouldn't have either, others say they must, I do it depending on my mood, usually none.
-tomato paste, yes sometimes, usually no. Goes in once garlic and/or onions are done.
-deglaze with wine if needed
In a pot:
-1 can tomatoes, people say San Marzano or bust but I like basic cento cans, some common supermarket brands can work but you need to taste for yourself. Pour into pot and set heat to a hard simmer. Add a little water to the can and swirl to pour out tomato juices clinging to side. Crush them as they reduce and soften up.
-oregano, red pepper flakes, salt, pepper. Sugar is a debatable addition. Onion and shallots add sweetness, so in that case no. If I'm going onionless, I might add a tiny pinch if the tomatoes feel harshly acidic, but salt usually compensates that well enough.
-a few tablespoons butter, sometimes I do this if the meat is sparse, or I'm feeling like the fatty I am.
Contents of pan go into the tomato pot and simmer till desired thickness.
-dried pasta in a ridiculously excessive amount of boiling water, salted excessively.
-fresh basil. Very key. Dried basil is borderline useless, as the aroma is what you want. This goes in near the end when you toss the almost al dente pasta in to finish cooking. And then more fresh basil once you cheese the plate.
In a pan:
-olive oil, a bunch
-garlic, sliced thin and toasted golden on lowish heat
-onions and shallots are optional, some recipes say marinara shouldn't have either, others say they must, I do it depending on my mood, usually none.
-tomato paste, yes sometimes, usually no. Goes in once garlic and/or onions are done.
-deglaze with wine if needed
In a pot:
-1 can tomatoes, people say San Marzano or bust but I like basic cento cans, some common supermarket brands can work but you need to taste for yourself. Pour into pot and set heat to a hard simmer. Add a little water to the can and swirl to pour out tomato juices clinging to side. Crush them as they reduce and soften up.
-oregano, red pepper flakes, salt, pepper. Sugar is a debatable addition. Onion and shallots add sweetness, so in that case no. If I'm going onionless, I might add a tiny pinch if the tomatoes feel harshly acidic, but salt usually compensates that well enough.
-a few tablespoons butter, sometimes I do this if the meat is sparse, or I'm feeling like the fatty I am.
Contents of pan go into the tomato pot and simmer till desired thickness.
-dried pasta in a ridiculously excessive amount of boiling water, salted excessively.
-fresh basil. Very key. Dried basil is borderline useless, as the aroma is what you want. This goes in near the end when you toss the almost al dente pasta in to finish cooking. And then more fresh basil once you cheese the plate.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
What makes spaghetti sauce taste really nice is reheating and cooling down several times, preferably over three or four days. Simmer the sauce for about 5-6 hours initially, then let it cool down and stick it into the fridge overnight. Then do it again the next day, slow simmer at really low heat. Into the fridge again. Again the next day and, possibly, even for a fourth day.
You end up with something that has beautiful flavour integration, with almost all the acidity gone, very fine silky texture, and outstanding aroma. An hour or so before serving, season with salt, if needed, a bit of red wine, and possibly a touch of white pepper and a bit of finely chopped basil.
Michi.
You end up with something that has beautiful flavour integration, with almost all the acidity gone, very fine silky texture, and outstanding aroma. An hour or so before serving, season with salt, if needed, a bit of red wine, and possibly a touch of white pepper and a bit of finely chopped basil.
Michi.
orangehero
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Why? So freshness is bad for tomato sauce? So why not just buy store-bought sauce it's been processed many times over and over?
What's the best way to handles fresh tomatoes? Just cook them over and over again?
I think it's bizarre but I've never tasted such a sauce not sure where to find it.
What's the best way to handles fresh tomatoes? Just cook them over and over again?
I think it's bizarre but I've never tasted such a sauce not sure where to find it.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
No, freshness isn't bad. But it tastes a lot better after having had time for all the flavours to blend.
It's a bit like German Sauerkraut. That tastes best, too, if reheated a number of times. Loses almost all the acidity, gets a softer texture, and gets a lot sweeter and flavourful.
Try it some time, you might be surprised.
It's a bit like German Sauerkraut. That tastes best, too, if reheated a number of times. Loses almost all the acidity, gets a softer texture, and gets a lot sweeter and flavourful.
Try it some time, you might be surprised.
orangehero
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I've never even considered sauer kraut cooked multitple time but i think the best part of it is the firm texture and acidity so maybe i should not...sounds like nasty mushy sweet cabbage
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I grew up in Bavaria, so I have a fair bit of exposure to Sauerkraut What style you want to use depends a lot on the dish you serve it with. For something like Eisbein, which is quite heavy and contains a lot of fat, freshly-cooked Sauerkraut is best because the acidity offsets the fattiness of the meat. For other things, such as Blut und Leberwurst mit Kartoffelbrei und Sauerkraut (blood and liver sausage with potato mash and sauerkraut), the longer-cooked version is more appropriate because the acidity of the fresh version tends to overwhelm the flavours of the sausage.
A lot of people add diced and fried smoked speck to sauerkraut, small amounts of finely diced apple, and caraway seed and/or juniper berries. The fattiness of the speck and the sweetness of the apple are used to create a more integrated experience other than just "bloody sour", and the caraway/juniper add more complex notes to the otherwise quite boring aroma. A pinch of yellow mustard seed or a bayleaf or two can be used to good effect, too.
It all depends on where you come from and what you like. But, trust me, sauerkraut reheated over a number of days can be really nice.
It's a bit like dry-aged beef. A lot of people wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole because, after all, why would someone eat a piece of meat that has been quietly rotting away in a fridge for three months? Until they try it for the first time and, thereafter, that's pretty much the only steak they would ever eat, if only they could afford it…
What style you want to use depends a lot on the dish you serve it with. For something like Eisbein, which is quite heavy and contains a lot of fat, freshly-cooked Sauerkraut is best because the acidity offsets the fattiness of the meat. For other things, such as Blut und Leberwurst mit Kartoffelbrei und Sauerkraut (blood and liver sausage with potato mash and sauerkraut), the longer-cooked version is more appropriate because the acidity of the fresh version tends to overwhelm the flavours of the sausage.A lot of people add diced and fried smoked speck to sauerkraut, small amounts of finely diced apple, and caraway seed and/or juniper berries. The fattiness of the speck and the sweetness of the apple are used to create a more integrated experience other than just "bloody sour", and the caraway/juniper add more complex notes to the otherwise quite boring aroma. A pinch of yellow mustard seed or a bayleaf or two can be used to good effect, too.
It all depends on where you come from and what you like. But, trust me, sauerkraut reheated over a number of days can be really nice.
It's a bit like dry-aged beef. A lot of people wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole because, after all, why would someone eat a piece of meat that has been quietly rotting away in a fridge for three months? Until they try it for the first time and, thereafter, that's pretty much the only steak they would ever eat, if only they could afford it…
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