New Kitchen - Cooktops From 2 different brands?

[Sb1994]

Guys, need help please.

designing kitchen (pic 1) for new build and will have sink on island, refrigeration on side, and range on “larger” countertop. That said, was think of getting deep fryer (which isn’t same depth as range) and steamer (which also isn’t same depth as range). Problem is that the deep fryer needs ventilation and steamer needs plumbing. So, all is good if I put deep fryer next to range and ventilation will coverthe fryer and range and if I put steamer next to sink since plumbing on that side. But will this just look weird?

steamer and deep fryer below

my attempt to show how these units look next to range

 

[Jovidah]

I'd rather use a steamer insert and occasionally drag my deepfryer out of the closet than to waste counterspace on having 2 permanently installed devices for it.
But I'm somewhat allergic to unitask items, so that's mostly personal preference.

 

[Michi]

It's not going to look great. I'd be inclined to buy the whole set from the manufacturer, so things match and line up.

 

[Sb1994]

You guys both right I think - thank you. Steamer and deep fryer free basically since I bought boatload of stuff and I’ve always coveted Gaggenau items. But just looks out of whack Hestan range. Lemme see, the cabinet maker will do renderings

either way, appreciate the thoughts.

also, here’s how it looked in show room. Love it but have heard downdrafts don’t work. Especially for deep fryers and grill (in the middle). They would charge me for the downdraft only - about $4.5k. Was thinking of buying the lot and having another “cooking” station but May be pain in neck for the plumbing and venting

 

[Sb1994]

And I would use the hell out of the deep fryer - shrimp, fish and intense smelling stuff and worried downdraft can’t withstand this type stuff

 

[Michi]

I think the argument about single-use appliances is strong. Having something like this built-in is nice. But, face it: you are not going to use the deep fryer anywhere near as often as the cooktop (or so one would hope )

Dedicating all that extra bench space is an expensive trade-off to make. And, as @Sb1994 pointed out, for steaming, it's easy to use the cooktop and a pot with a steamer insert. Or get an oven with a steaming function. That would be my preferred option, simply because that space is going to be taken up no matter what. And a steaming function is also great for baking bread.

 

[Delat]

If you’d use the deep fryer regularly then go for it. I personally wouldn’t have a problem with it not being the same brand as the cooktop as long as they were all the same finish, e.g. stainless steel. I wouldn’t trust a downdraft for a deep fryer - that vaporized oil is tough to capture and you definitely don’t want it escaping and building up on your cabinets, walls, and furniture.

The only problem I’d have with your overall design is just a single sink on the island. Personally I’d put a primary cleanup sink on the main counter and leave a small prep sink on the island. We tend to stack stuff in and around the sink then clean it up every couple days, so it would look pretty bad having that on an island. But if you clean up every day I guess it’d be ok.

 

[Sb1994]

Love the advice guys. Thank you!!!

talking to siematic tomorrow on the 2 sinks!!

 

[coxhaus]

I would not want anything right next to my 36-inch range. I need to set stuff on both sides of my counter next to my range. Trying to work from 1 side would not be good. I thought about a 48-inch range and sometimes I wish I had bought it but then there are times I am glad I did not. I have plenty of counter space.

 

[MarcelNL]

we just designed the new kitchen (Siematic), basically what Michi said...no single purpose items, an oven that does real steam (low pressure vs high pressure) -we had one in the previous house and I LOVED it, some do sous vide, steam, baking, slow cooking....
Deep frying gets done outside, so does stir frying as there is no extraction fan short of a whopping large industrial unit that can handle that and keep in mind that an extraction fan can only extract enough when enough fresh air is coming into the room.

 

[WildBoar]

We had no problem with mixing appliances/ makers. Also keep in mind no one will be viewing your kitchen layout from that 'drone' view used in the rendering.

My caution would be about the loss of usable countertop space immediately adjacent to the sink and cooktop. That is valuable space that support washing and cooking operations. So when those devices are in use (or still have the lids open because they are cooling down, etc.) the washing and cooking operations will be hampered a bit.

Running a water supply to the steamer is no big deal. It can enter the cabinets at the sink, and then tee off and be routed through the back of an adjacent cabinet if you want it to be located away from the sink a bit. The fryer is a bigger issue sine it really needs to be under the vent hood.

 

[Sb1994]

Good point. That deep fryer sounds awesome and wife and I always wanted one but we may have to keep using pot and strainer like others have said. It does look obtuse next to the Hestan. Steamer May be a possibility though.

think you’re absolutely right on counter space next to sink and cooktop. So if omit the fryer, I can place the steamer next to range? Not directly next to it since it doesn’t need ventilation but somewhat close?

Thx for weighing in.

 

[MarcelNL]

something like this works great, I keep mine stocked with organic bovine kidney fat

https://www.coolblue.nl/product/480...uM7V410gCqoizpwYAKIVaOWkhTpQ1hk0aAokjEALw_wcB

 

[Sb1994]

something like this works great, I keep mine stocked with organic bovine kidney fat

https://www.coolblue.nl/product/480...uM7V410gCqoizpwYAKIVaOWkhTpQ1hk0aAokjEALw_wcB

Nice. Never thought of animal fat but great idea. Love anything cooked in duck fat!!!

 

[Jovidah]

I would not want anything right next to my 36-inch range. I need to set stuff on both sides of my counter next to my range. Trying to work from 1 side would not be good. I thought about a 48-inch range and sometimes I wish I had bought it but then there are times I am glad I did not. I have plenty of counter space.

Yeah I failed to really make this point. It's not just that you're losing counter-space... you're losing counter-space right next to your stove. Which is IMO the prime real-estate that is most useful in cooking - especially if you're cutting on the go. While I sometimes do it I find it distinctly inefficient to either cut on my island with my back to the stove, or cut a few meters away from my stove.
Something like Marcel posted is also what I'd personally prefer - even if I could get the built-in fryer for free. But again that's a very personal choice, so just take this as 'some opinion from some random dude on the internet', not gospel.

Delat also makes a fair point about 1 sink. The kitchen looks large enough that you might be able to fit in a 'dirty corner' with a sink / sink area devoted to dishes and a 'food-prep sink', in different areas.

You could also consider having a slight overhang on the island to have some bar seating space. Iduno, personally I found out that whenever we have people over we invariably end up hanging around and eating around the kitchen island instead of the dining table, but that might be completely different for you. But it's a very simple / tiny change; just have a slight overhang on at least one side and add a feel bar stools.

 

[Sb1994]

thinking to omit deep fryer altogether now although I love the steam cooker. Wife daughters and I going to siematic a bit later today to discuss.

Thx again guys. Glad I posted here

 

[Dan-]

Unless you REALLY want it, I'd avoid a large sink in the island. Small prep sink sure, but between the loss of the most useful prep space and the visual clutter a drainboard brings, it just stinks.

 

[Sb1994]

Was thinking kohler prolific. 44”. Island is 10’ by 4’

 

[McMan]

I agree--a bar sink on the island and a work sink on the same wall as the stove. Plus, with that layout it'd be easy to plumb a wall faucet behind the stove if you wanted one.

I might suggest rethinking the entire layout though... My read of these plans is a layout that lacks flow and work paths with an island placement that's a barrier not a benefit.

The way it is now, with the sink on the island only, will have you doing a lot of 180-turns to go from stove to sink. The fridge is in a location where it is only convenient to the island, so you'll find yourself using that corner of the island as either a landing strip or a prep counter, which potentially makes the fridge-to-counter-to-stove path also depend on 180-turns. This could be avoided if there was counter space to the right of the stove, but there's little real estate there. And the flow to get from the fridge to the counter to the left of the stove is a weird S-path to avoid the island. Plus, the fridge-to-sink path is an S-path too.

Also, there are no upper cabinets on the stove wall, so that's all space that trades function for aesthetics. I can see why they might not be wanted--it'd clutter a clear wall--but perhaps the workaround is to put a bank of lowers, middle, uppers all the way to the left in the corner and sacrifice a bit of counter space there for the sake of storage? I don't know how long you plan to stay in the house, but bending over for everything stops getting fun at a certain point

I hope I don't sound like a kitchen grump... I know kitchens are very personal. For me, I'd be bumping into things, spinning like a top, and grumpy to be constantly bending over.

 

[MarcelNL]

Yeah I failed to really make this point. It's not just that you're losing counter-space... you're losing counter-space right next to your stove. Which is IMO the prime real-estate that is most useful in cooking - especially if you're cutting on the go. While I sometimes do it I find it distinctly inefficient to either cut on my island with my back to the stove, or cut a few meters away from my stove.
Something like Marcel posted is also what I'd personally prefer - even if I could get the built-in fryer for free. But again that's a very personal choice, so just take this as 'some opinion from some random dude on the internet', not gospel.

Delat also makes a fair point about 1 sink. The kitchen looks large enough that you might be able to fit in a 'dirty corner' with a sink / sink area devoted to dishes and a 'food-prep sink', in different areas.

You could also consider having a slight overhang on the island to have some bar seating space. Iduno, personally I found out that whenever we have people over we invariably end up hanging around and eating around the kitchen island instead of the dining table, but that might be completely different for you. But it's a very simple / tiny change; just have a slight overhang on at least one side and add a feel bar stools.

guess you were present when we designed the new kitchen

 

[Sb1994]

I agree--a bar sink on the island and a work sink on the same wall as the stove. Plus, with that layout it'd be easy to plumb a wall faucet behind the stove if you wanted one.

I might suggest rethinking the entire layout though... My read of these plans is a layout that lacks flow and work paths with an island placement that's a barrier not a benefit.

The way it is now, with the sink on the island only, will have you doing a lot of 180-turns to go from stove to sink. The fridge is in a location where it is only convenient to the island, so you'll find yourself using that corner of the island as either a landing strip or a prep counter, which potentially makes the fridge-to-counter-to-stove path also depend on 180-turns. This could be avoided if there was counter space to the right of the stove, but there's little real estate there. And the flow to get from the fridge to the counter to the left of the stove is a weird S-path to avoid the island. Plus, the fridge-to-sink path is an S-path too.

Also, there are no upper cabinets on the stove wall, so that's all space that trades function for aesthetics. I can see why they might not be wanted--it'd clutter a clear wall--but perhaps the workaround is to put a bank of lowers, middle, uppers all the way to the left in the corner and sacrifice a bit of counter space there for the sake of storage? I don't know how long you plan to stay in the house, but bending over for everything stops getting fun at a certain point

I hope I don't sound like a kitchen grump... I know kitchens are very personal. For me, I'd be bumping into things, spinning like a top, and grumpy to be constantly bending over.

Great advice and thx

first 4pics are of kitchens we just LOVE and wanted to emulate to some extent. Next few pic kitchen right now -we will tear out after we move in around March 5 or so. Next pic is of floor to ceiling cabinets “opened”

never thought to have 2 sinks but love the idea. don’t want to add more cabinets on other side of kitchen since we have 3 windows.
FYI - 36” Hestan range, Liebherr fridge and freezer, walGaggenau combi microwave/oven and mini Liebherr wine fridge Please see pics below.

guys - thanks again!!!!!!!

 

[Delat]

I agree--a bar sink on the island and a work sink on the same wall as the stove. Plus, with that layout it'd be easy to plumb a wall faucet behind the stove if you wanted one.

I might suggest rethinking the entire layout though... My read of these plans is a layout that lacks flow and work paths with an island placement that's a barrier not a benefit.

The way it is now, with the sink on the island only, will have you doing a lot of 180-turns to go from stove to sink. The fridge is in a location where it is only convenient to the island, so you'll find yourself using that corner of the island as either a landing strip or a prep counter, which potentially makes the fridge-to-counter-to-stove path also depend on 180-turns. This could be avoided if there was counter space to the right of the stove, but there's little real estate there. And the flow to get from the fridge to the counter to the left of the stove is a weird S-path to avoid the island. Plus, the fridge-to-sink path is an S-path too.

Also, there are no upper cabinets on the stove wall, so that's all space that trades function for aesthetics. I can see why they might not be wanted--it'd clutter a clear wall--but perhaps the workaround is to put a bank of lowers, middle, uppers all the way to the left in the corner and sacrifice a bit of counter space there for the sake of storage? I don't know how long you plan to stay in the house, but bending over for everything stops getting fun at a certain point

I hope I don't sound like a kitchen grump... I know kitchens are very personal. For me, I'd be bumping into things, spinning like a top, and grumpy to be constantly bending over.

This is how my prep area is configured and it’s actually really convenient. I have a prep sink on the island opposite the stove. And the fridge is to the side facing the island. When I need a bit of water it’s super convenient to literally just turn around and turn back, vs taking a few steps over to the main sink. If I need to do last-minute cutting of something I forgot, then I just put a board next to the cooktop.

The arrangement keeps paths pretty short between fridge, prep sink, and cooktop while leaving me plenty of room on both sides of the cooktop and a huge island to spread out my ingredients while prepping. I also have a drawer for trash directly below the prep area, whereas the cabinets in and around the cooktop are all pots and various cooking sundries (pots and pans, prep bowls, oils, vinegars, flour, salt, sugar, etc).

 

[Sb1994]

This is how my prep area is configured and it’s actually really convenient. I have a prep sink on the island opposite the stove. And the fridge is to the side facing the island. When I need a bit of water it’s super convenient to literally just turn around and turn back, vs taking a few steps over to the main sink. If I need to do last-minute cutting of something I forgot, then I just put a board next to the cooktop.

The arrangement keeps paths pretty short between fridge, prep sink, and cooktop while leaving me plenty of room on both sides of the cooktop and a huge island to spread out my ingredients while prepping. I also have a drawer for trash directly below the prep area, whereas the cabinets in and around the cooktop are all pots and various cooking sundries (pots and pans, prep bowls, oils, vinegars, flour, salt, sugar, etc).

Beautiful and love the logic and flow

 

[WildBoar]

Great advice and thx

first 4pics are of kitchens we just LOVE and wanted to emulate to some extent. Next few pic kitchen right now -we will tear out after we move in around March 5 or so. Next pic is of floor to ceiling cabinets “opened”

never thought to have 2 sinks but love the idea.

We thought about 2 sinks when we redid our kitchen. I'm glad we stuck with three, though. p kitchen flex)

Looking at the photos you posted, I sense more of going for a look then having a really useful kitchen to really work in a lot. More of something to put in a magazine. I do not get a sense from the photos that those are kitchens belong to people who spend a lot of time cooking. But that is fine if aesthetics >>>>>> function. Plus residential kitchens are always a compromise. We had a space that was too wide to make like a galley; we were able to put the prep/ work islands pretty close, but not as close as optimum. And the fridge is pretty far away. To get around that, we just try and pull out everything we need ahead when starting prep (not unlike the restaurant cooks have to do with fridges and freezes being a 5 minute walk down a back hallway). But knowing the 'triangle' wasn't really going to happen we used the space to make it better for people to gather/ hang out. During parties, etc. most people hang out at the islands in the kitchen area rather then in the family room area 10 feet away. We dressed it up with some nice (to me) finishes, so it looks decent overall when there aren't cutting boards, knife blocks, baskets of produce, unread mail, used glasses, etc. on some of the spaces. It *might* have been photo-shoot worth the day the countertops were installed, but we immediately made it 'lived in'.

 

[Sb1994]

We thought about 2 sinks when we redid our kitchen. I'm glad we stuck with three, though. p kitchen flex)

Looking at the photos you posted, I sense more of going for a look then having a really useful kitchen to really work in a lot. More of something to put in a magazine. I do not get a sense from the photos that those are kitchens belong to people who spend a lot of time cooking. But that is fine if aesthetics >>>>>> function. Plus residential kitchens are always a compromise. We had a space that was too wide to make like a galley; we were able to put the prep/ work islands pretty close, but not as close as optimum. And the fridge is pretty far away. To get around that, we just try and pull out everything we need ahead when starting prep (not unlike the restaurant cooks have to do with fridges and freezes being a 5 minute walk down a back hallway). But knowing the 'triangle' wasn't really going to happen we used the space to make it better for people to gather/ hang out. During parties, etc. most people hang out at the islands in the kitchen area rather then in the family room area 10 feet away. We dressed it up with some nice (to me) finishes, so it looks decent overall when there aren't cutting boards, knife blocks, baskets of produce, unread mail, used glasses, etc. on some of the spaces. It *might* have been photo-shoot worth the day the countertops were installed, but we immediately made it 'lived in'.

Great point and didn’t think of that when looking at those kitchens. But your logic makes sense - those kitchens are more for show. We’re die hard cooks and I’m in early 50s and wife is mid 40s. We’ve been married for almost 20 years and love to cook - hence, love of knives, duck press and all things food related. That said, it’s hard not to go crazy here in vegas after living in San Jose area for a long time. Love the thoughtfulness of the responses and your point of compromise is so true. Gonna see how much a second sink will cost but that’s game changing advice and wife also loves the idea. We go back and forth but we’re thinking to keep this house long term here in vegas. If we sold our houses back near San Jose area, we could afford more here in vegas but we figured that it’s best to keep those places….at least for now. Both wifey and I spend vast majority of time in kitchen so we wanted “perfection” to some degree….but then I remember that perfection is something to be pursued but never attained

 

[WildBoar]

Here is some more info from our build: our islands are 5' x 10'. For the island with the sink, that extra foot of width allows guests to be on one side to still have countertop space without the sink/ faucet encroaching on them. We put the base cabinets there back-to-back, resulting in a very useable one foot counter overhang. So guests can comfortably sit on stools on that side. The sink is a large bar sink (not one of the real small ones -- it's big enough to hold a large colander, etc.). There is enough room on either side of the sink for prep areas.

You layout screams for the main dishwashing sink to be somewhere along that long counter. We have a similar counter run, so we put a dishwashing sink about 3 feet from the endwall. That space is where the grinder and espresso machine live. On the other side of the sink we have a drying rack. And then the space between the rack and range holds a toaster and toaster over (we have the luxury of enough space to leave them out since they are used daily), and there is still a work/ staging space right next to the range. And a couple more feet of counter between the range and wall oven. So some work/ staging space on both sides of the range, and wall cabinets to either side that hold various oils and other things that often need to go directly into a pan or pot. I think you may otherwise find that long counter to be 'dead space' near the far end.

 

[Sb1994]

Here is some more info from our build: our islands are 5' x 10'. For the island with the sink, that extra foot of width allows guests to be on one side to still have countertop space without the sink/ faucet encroaching on them. We put the base cabinets there back-to-back, resulting in a very useable one foot counter overhang. So guests can comfortably sit on stools on that side. The sink is a large bar sink (not one of the real small ones -- it's big enough to hold a large colander, etc.). There is enough room on either side of the sink for prep areas.

You layout screams for the main dishwashing sink to be somewhere along that long counter. We have a similar counter run, so we put a dishwashing sink about 3 feet from the endwall. That space is where the grinder and espresso machine live. On the other side of the sink we have a drying rack. And then the space between the rack and range holds a toaster and toaster over (we have the luxury of enough space to leave them out since they are used daily), and there is still a work/ staging space right next to the range. And a couple more feet of counter between the range and wall oven. So some work/ staging space on both sides of the range, and wall cabinets to either side that hold various oils and other things that often need to go directly into a pan or pot. I think you may otherwise find that long counter to be 'dead space' near the far end.

Thx and great idea. If I move the main sink to left of window, would make sense and then could use island area for smaller sink. Have an expobar Athena espresso maker which I wanna put somewhere in kitchen. Love the island and mine is exact same size. Was thinking kohler prolific 44 inch sink for main with hansgrohe aquno faucet. Now, will have fun figuring out island sink. Perhaps even put the Gaggenau steamer next to it?? Gonna have me some fun thinking through.

Thank you

 

[MarcelNL]

Just a thought; I once had a stretch of countertop of approx 8meters with a stove in the middle, and found it is simply too much of walk to be practical...much of it was never used but clutter found it.

 

[Michi]

We built our house twenty years ago. When I designed the kitchen, I made a large-scale (1:20) plan of the area. I cut out little cardboard rectangles for the various appliances and the like. Then I cooked some meals on the plan, roughly tracking what I would normally do and how many times I would have to walk where.

That turned out really useful. Not only to figure out where I should put hot/cold/wet, but also what kinds of things need to be in which kind of cupboard or drawer and where. Basically, it's an exercise in minimising movement, so the right kind of tool is at hand at the right time, without having to endlessly walk or turn around.

Personally, I am not a fan of island kitchens. I've cooked in a few of them and, mostly, found them annoying.

• If the island is truly an island (that is, surrounded by benches on three sides), it becomes an obstacle. Every time I need something that's in a cupboard on the other side of the island, I have to walk around the bloody thing.
• If the island has benches on only one or two sides, it sort of begs the question of why it is an island, rather than a bench that is joined to the island, so there is no island, but just a U-shaped bench, with the stove and sink inset where they need to be.

Of all the kitchens I have cooked in, U-shaped ones work the best, I think. It's the shape that maximises storage space and minimises walking distance.

At any rate, I recommend spending some time to think about not just where you want your fridge, sink, and stove top, but also about what kinds of storage you need where. In many cases, wide and deep drawers are a much better option for storing pots and pans than cupboards are. They make it easy to get at everything without having to grope around for something that is at the back of a cupboard (and having to moving something that is in front out of the way first).

Don't forget to think about the clean-up. It's good to be clear about what needs to go where and why at the end of a meal. Is it easy to get dishes from the table to the dishwasher, possibly with an intermediate trip to the sink for pre-cleaning? If not, see if you can find a more ergonomic arrangement.

Other things that I found truly useful are rotating insets for corner cupboards. They make it possible to get at a whole bunch of things easily. (Having shelves in a corner cupboard is bloody useless because the diagonal distance from the front into the corner at the back is too large.)

One more thing: pull-out pantries are fantastic for storing jars, sauce bottles, and a host of other things. (These are fairly narrow full-height or half-height cupboards that pull out perpendicular to the wall, with shelving that is completely exposed when pulled out.) These make it way easier to get at things in a deep (60-70 cm) cupboard.

 

[coxhaus]

Don't forget to think about the clean-up. It's good to be clear about what needs to go where and why at the end of a meal. Is it easy to get dishes from the table to the dishwasher, possibly with an intermediate trip to the sink for pre-cleaning? If not, see if you can find a more ergonomic arrangement.

Our dishwasher and sink are close together and I don't think I would want it any other way.

I clean dishes as I put them in the opened dishwasher without walking. Any other solution would be a pain.