New petty and gyutos

I’m a home cook and got bite from the japanese knives after I got to try one at my friend place . Now that my work changed, I have more time in home, I decided to replace most of my western knives.

LOCATION
What country are you in?

Finland

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto 2 pcs. and Petty

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

2 gyutos about 240mm

Petty or similar knife blade around 150-180mm, prefer with some height, so my wife can use it with board too.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Petty stainless or semi stainless

One gyuto stainless or semi and one carbon steel(my first carbon knife, sharpening practise, would be nice if it comes real sharp out of the box so I have some goal to reach when learning the sharpening.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

No absolute budget lets say everything under 500€....

Petty around 200€
Gyuto 200-300€/pcs

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Everything else but breaking bones for now.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Not replacing, starting over.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Push cutting, slicing, chopping,rocking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Petty: some height/nuckle clearance, good edge retention, sharpness out of the box, .

Gyuto(I allready bought Sakai Yusuke swedish stainless wa-gyuto 240mm, havent received it yet).
So the stainless or semi stainless should be different than the Sakai so I can get the feel what sort of gyuto/chefknife feels good for me now.

Carbon steel gyuto: sharpness out of the box and ability to get sharp edge

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Aesthetics is not so important, dont mind scratches.Petty and the other gyuto stains or color change over the time is no issue, but prefer quite stress free from rust.

Carbon steel gyuto cutting performance over aestetics 100%.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Petty, comfortable handle, wife is going to use it, so not too heavy.

Gyutos would prefer more blade heavy.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Petty good ootb edge. Good edge retention, quite easy to sharpen...(impossible?)

Semi/stainless gyuto, mainly push cutting, slicing and chopping the least. Different than sakai...

Carbon steel gyuto, sharpness ootb and ability to get real sharp edge. Reactivity doesnt matter.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Carbon gyuto doesnt really matter.

Petty, good edge retention

Sakai or this semi/stainless gyuto good edge retention.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

I have now bamboo board, but I am going to replace that one with edge grain board(searching that too) and other board for raw chicken etc...

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

With bad electric machine...

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes and I have bought allready whetstones, the j-knives are only missing

Special requests/comments:

Feel free to ask more question... so goal is to have 2 stainless/semi stainless gyutos with different characteristics, one stainless/semi stainless petty and one carbon steel gyuto with sharp edge(this one comes in use too and planning to learn sharpening with this for starters). I am willing to accept that sharpening takes time and I propably will mess some knife/blade while doing it and that is fine. Still want to start with good knives...

 

For a first carbon gyuto, a Mazaki could be a great first choice. It's reactive, but the white steel is easy to get very sharp. The marker does great detail-work for the price. Rounded and smoothed spine and choil. Distal taper. Finished on hand stones. Japanese handle is one step up from basic. All for about $250 new, and there are several up on the BST (buy sell trade) forum for about $200. Got one recently and it's an exciting knife.

I also like that the finish is basic, so I'm not scared to work on it myself. Definitely recommend stones instead of an electric sharpener.

Still thinking on the petty...

 

I've seen these recommended before as a taller stainless petties with good finishing details
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-petty-150mm-with-ebony-handle/

This one runs a bit thicker, but the steel had some dedicated fans.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-heiji-150-mm-semi-stainless-wa-petty

Can anyone think of a good stainless santoku? Those can make nice taller petties.

 

Hi. And thank you for the reply. Is there some short of flat spot at the heel or is it curved all the way?

 

To keep things within your budget it seems wise to limit your search to vendors within the EU (otherwise VAT and customs will eat too much of your budget). If you haven’t already taken a look browse around CleanCut, japanesenaturalstones, knivesandtools, Japan-messer-shop etc. good luck!

 

Thanks. I like the look of both knives. I cant see details about tanaka from the link some how...the darker handle for the petty could be good thing because it propably get most use from the knives. I only saw that Tanaka has hrc 60-61 and heiji 63...Do you know the other difference when it comes edge sharpness, retention, maybe chipping?

For now I dont think santoku would gets much use...

 

Thank you for the reply. The budget isnt written in the wall but youre right that ordering from the states and if there is postages too then the price gets easily much higher...

 

Mine has a nice flat spot, but I think there are a different styles. The difference is fairly easy to see.

 

Okei, I need to look closer.

 

Does anyone have a stainless / semi stainless gyuto recommendation? I'm either drunk or have head trauma because I can't think of a WA handled knife I like.

 

Heiji and Konosuke have nice semistainless. HD2 and HD Konosuke new YS are good knives. I have a Sukenari Hap40 gyuto that is awesome. Sakai Takayuki ginsans are nice knives. I also like the Sakai Sakura knives that James has.

 

I know it's not widely popular, but if you're OK with a western handle, Mac Pro is a good knife that is easy to sharpen

 

Thanks, I allready have a few zwillings with western handle, so the western handle is a no no...

 

Hi, and thank you for reply. I’m new in forum and totally new with the world of japanese knives....so James as in Knives and Stones? Those are really nice looking knives....I have to search forum more for comparison etc....

 

Yes, that James. BTW this is the Takayuki to which I refer: http://www.knivesandstones.com/ginsanko/ . What Carl said about vendors is very valid. Prices are really quite varied and worth some time in searching.

I have no personal experience with this knife (I have a Yoshikane tamamoku mani and 240 gyuto both lovely) but the SLD https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=94324 has received high praise.

BTW the Sakai Yusuke Swedish stainless I have in 210mm. I initially had some difficulty in sharpening, but I have found that it gets wicked sharp and easily maintains its sharpness for a long time. It is an impressive little laser.

 

Kaeru from Japanese natural stones is a nice stainless/semi stainless gyuto, don't mind the price it is good. Don't buy multiple gyutos at the same time, pick one or just use the one you already bought. It will become very clear even with one which direction you want to go first, heavier, taller, stainless, etc. After that it will be somewhat easier to decide.

 

Thank for reply. Maybe you’re right

Thanks for the reply. You’re maybe right about going first with one gyuto and I think that is what I do.

 

So I end up order the Tanaka petty. It has good reviews everywhere so...

I’ve been using the Sakai usuke for about week now. It’s real sharp(was expecting that vs.zwillings), I like the handle a lot. It does all the push cutting, chopping, slicing much more enjoyable.

Blade height is 48mm(about the same as zwilling pro) and I somehow use different kind of pinch grip(maybe because the handle and spine is more comfortable than zwilling), I notice my fingers are near the edge. So I have to adjust the grip...

I did look more different styles knives with more height and and decide to pull a tricker on Kochi and one other from bst forum ==).

 

1 place to look (or even visit the "store" if you live in the Helsinki local area) is Hiomakivi.fi. Sami has some gyutos, pettys and santokus on hand.

Just today bought a Matsubara (Tanaka on the site) 210mm Gyuto with aogami #2 carbon blade wrapped in stainless. Comes pre sharpened to some degree. Matsubara blades are quite tall, which seems to be the style he likes to make them, so the geometry is somewhat different than other gyutos.

Also if you happen to need the stones for sharpening, they are readily available and all are tested by the seller himself

 

I know the hiomakivi.fi webstore, bought 2 few stones and accessories a 2 weeks ago. The shipping was real fast, 3 days from order. I’ll have to pay visit there next time when I’m in Helsinki.

 

Yep, I visited hiomakivi in person last winter and bought several stones. Not really a store, Sami just came down to the lobby of the office building and brought the merchandise with him. It's in Vantaa, not Helsinki.

 

Correction, hiomakivi used to be in Vantaa. Appears to have moved to Espoo now - just checked from their website.