New SKD edge fold

[Noodle]

Hey there,

Just bought this knife (really beautiful, my nicest knife so far) and chopped one onion, a handful of garlic cloves, and some steak. Nothing strenuous. When cleaning up, I noticed the edge had folded very slightly in a spot about 6mm long. It's not horrific, and I think it will sharpen out. But a couple questions: 1) Is this pretty typical for this knife? I know it's super thin BTE, but am curious if it's going to be an ongoing issue, even after this is fixed? I read a similar thread (Yoshikane SKD folded edge) where another new owner had a worse folded edge, so apparently it's not uncommon... just wondering what I'm looking at for the future.

2) Do you suggest sharpening it now to straighten it out, or can I just use it per normal for a while and deal with the fold--and any others that might develop--when I put it on the stones down the road? I guess I'm wondering if using a knife with a slightly folded edge is a bad idea, and likely to make the fold worse, or should I not worry about that? And will this become a non-issue once the factory edge has been replaced? Any other things new owners of this model should know?

A little bummed that this happened on my first outing with the new tool, but am generally not a worrier, and know from all I've read here that this knife has a good reputation, so am hoping for the best. I appreciate your advice!

 

[blokey]

Haven't encounter any problems with the last few days of ownership, use a medium stone to fix it like you would do with microchips.

 

[toddnmd]

I assume this is also a Yoshikane?
I don’t think it’s typical, but also not shocking, and glad you’re not alarmed.
First priority to me is to try to figure out how this happened so you can better avoid it in the future. This knife is probably less forgiving than many others given how thin Yoshis are BTE and what makes them fantastic cutters.
I’d use it a bit more to see if more careful use helps you avoid further issues.
You could also touch it up on a 3K or higher, which might not eliminate the folded section but would make it better.
Or do a full sharpening if you like. Perhaps with a slightly higher angle.
And maybe a microbevel.
Ill stop here, that’s enough options. And I’m sure others will chime in.

 

[KingShapton]

I'd sharpen the spot out instantly, but that's me. But I prefer to put my own edge on new knives anyway.

 

[Delat]

In my case (from the linked thread) the folded edge was from cutting the root ends of unpeeled garlic. Given the ingredients you mention it sounds like you might’ve done the same? I’ve had zero issues in the months since, but I definitely switched to smashing and peeling garlic before cutting the ends after that experience.

If the damage is on a part of the knife you regularly use, then personally I’d go ahead and fix it so it doesn’t get worse. Some guys here will continue using edges with damage, so opinions vary.

 

[Noodle]

Yeah, it’s a Yoshikane. I thought I had that in there, but I guess not.

 

[mrmoves92]

I would try some stropping on your finest stone. I had a similar rolled edge on a different gyuto from running into bone while cutting a steak off of a bone before slicing, and stropping on my Rika 5k helped a lot. Or you could do what everyone else is saying because they are probably more knowledgeable/experienced than me.

 

[Jason183]

Liked @Delat said, it was probably from cutting the root ends of unpeeled garlic.

Doesn’t look too bad, should be an easy fix, few swipes on your finishing stone should solve the problem since Yoshikane is very thin BTE.

 

[tostadas]

My Yoshikanes also came ridiculously thin at the edge. Your first sharpening should take care of it. I'd have absolutely zero concern based on your photos.

 

[Helicon]

I would try some stropping on your finest stone. I had a similar rolled edge on a different gyuto from running into bone while cutting a steak off of a bone before slicing, and stropping on my Rika 5k helped a lot. Or you could do what everyone else is saying because they are probably more knowledgeable/experienced than me.

I think you're correct that a folded edge merits a more delicate approach initially. Stropping on loaded leather/cloth could easily be enough. Or just a few swipes on a (god forbid) metal polishing rod such as a F. Dick Micro, would probably do the trick.

 

[mrmoves92]

I think you're correct that a folded edge merits a more delicate approach initially. Stropping on loaded leather/cloth could easily be enough. Or just a few swipes on a (god forbid) metal polishing rod such as a F. Dick Micro, would probably do the trick.

In my case, I started by stropping on leather, but the folded edge scraped my strop a bit, so I used my fine stone instead, which worked well. Stropping on leather/cloth could work in this case, but in my case, stropping on a fine stone worked a bit better for me.

 

[Noodle]

Yep, I definitely used it to cut the skin of the garlic--I just never imagined something like that would cause the metal to bend. But then I've never had something this thin. That was probably it. Wow, new knife, new learning curve, I guess. I will try Suehiro Rika 5000 as suggested above, since I have that stone, to start and take it from there.

 

[blokey]

Yep, I definitely used it to cut the skin of the garlic--I just never imagined something like that would cause the metal to bend. But then I've never had something this thin. That was probably it. Wow, new knife, new learning curve, I guess. I will try Suehiro Rika 5000 as suggested above, since I have that stone, to start and take it from there.

While I’m still fine with my Yoshi SKD, This actually get me kind worried… I know harder knife can chip on the root end of onion and saw pretty bad examples, but folded just on skin is just weird, hope it is not QC issues…

 

[madmotts]

First priority to me is to try to figure out how this happened so you can better avoid it in the future. This knife is probably less forgiving than many others given how thin Yoshis are BTE and what makes them fantastic cutters.
I’d use it a bit more to see if more careful use helps you avoid further issues.
You could also touch it up on a 3K or higher, which might not eliminate the folded section but would make it better.
Or do a full sharpening if you like. Perhaps with a slightly higher angle.
And maybe a microbevel.

All of this. ☝

I've had this happen on a few knives with garlic ends (Yoshikane SKD, Nihei SLD). I gotta stop doing that... I think it's only happening on the factory edge. Pretty annoying tho.

 

[Delat]

While I’m still fine with my Yoshi SKD, This actually get me kind worried… I know harder knife can chip on the root end of onion and saw pretty bad examples, but folded just on skin is just weird, hope it is not QC issues…

I wouldn’t worry about it. Garlic skin is a weird case. It causes abnormal stress on the edge from both the toughness of the skin plus the fact that the clove is at an angle when you’re cutting so pressure on the edge isn’t straight on. The skin is tough and slippery so you react by pressing down harder, effectively putting a lot of lateral pressure on the edge which we all know is no-no.

But yeah, the garlic thing I’ve done for years without issue until the Yoshi. Now I smash and peel my garlic first with a bench scraper. Anyway, no issues with my Yoshi in the 7 months since my own garlic incident (other than me dropping it, that is).

 

[blokey]

I wouldn’t worry about it. Garlic skin is a weird case. It causes abnormal stress on the edge from both the toughness of the skin plus the fact that the clove is at an angle when you’re cutting so pressure on the edge isn’t straight on. The skin is tough and slippery so you react by pressing down harder, effectively putting a lot of lateral pressure on the edge which we all know is no-no.

But yeah, the garlic thing I’ve done for years without issue until the Yoshi. Now I smash and peel my garlic first with a bench scraper. Anyway, no issues with my Yoshi in the 7 months since my own garlic incident (other than me dropping it, that is).

Thanks, I thought he mean just the skin of a single clove. The backend of the garlic is pretty hard, I actually use my palm to push them open. Kind like this at 0:59

 

[McMan]

IIRC there was a thread about this same issue months (a year?) ago. Consensus was the OOTB factory edge was a bit too thin/fragile--leaving some fatigued steel or a wire edge. This is a common problem on many new knives. A proper sharpening should solve the problem. Long story short, sometimes you just can't trust the OOTB edge.

Many of us on here have yoshi from different times, and this issue seems to be mostly on the newer versions. This makes it uncommon to yoshi in general (because there are multiple incarnations over the years) but, perhaps, more common to the newest versions, which are pretty skinny BTE.

 

[captaincaed]

All 4 Yoshis I’ve had microchipped at their first sight of a cutting board. I also had an edge roll on another knife with an extreme nail flexing edge, cutting fried pork belly. Take home: don’t sweat it, now you know your knives need a slightly more robust edge the way you’re going to use them. It’s cool. Now you get to set your own edge, see how it works and adjust again if need be. All part of the normal process.

If you really like that type of super thin edge, now you know it’s only for very soft items. You can always have another knife for heavy work as well.

A fabric strop will tear, so I'd avoid that. A honing rod will not “realign” the edge, don’t believe that nonsense. Take it to a stone and cut the damage out. A damaged edge will continue to fail, just like when a crack starts in your window it will propagate. You don’t need to sharpen much, but don’t leave it. It’s a tool, do the proper maintenance.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

While I’m still fine with my Yoshi SKD, This actually get me kind worried… I know harder knife can chip on the root end of onion and saw pretty bad examples, but folded just on skin is just weird, hope it is not QC issues…

I have a brand new Yoshikane SKD santoku (OOTB edge). This thread motivated me, at just before 6am, to sacrifice some old garlic gloves in the name of science. I had an aging bulb and the root-ends of the cloves are quite hard.

I just cut up several and used various spots along the edge. I also rotated the cloves to present different angles of attack. I had no issues. So I took it one step further and actually cut across the hard end, again in a few places along the edge. Again, no issues.

There's no question that's a thin edge. Oh boy is it thin! Certainly an edge I need to be conscious of and take time to learn. It's quite possible I will encounter a problem at some point and am in no way dismissing the graciously provided examples given. My guess is, that these knives are right on the very cusp of thinness and the margin is so small that once in a while it goes a smidge over and is too thin and a little weak.

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

I may be seeing it wrong, but it looks to me like the bevel reveal is wider on either side of the rolled section which would be the case if there was a slight overgrind. I don't see it as anything to be concerned about as a few sharpening sessions should get into well supported steel.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

I have always thought mine was delicate but I have never had a single issue. As others have suggested if it were mine I would sharpen it out and go from there.
Is that SKD? I am really surprised to see that much patina for your first use. I have owned mine for months and don't have that much patina. Maybe a heat treat issue?

 

[Corradobrit1]

I may be seeing it wrong, but it looks to me like the bevel reveal is wider on either side of the rolled section which would be the case if there was a slight overgrind. I don't see it as anything to be concerned about as a few sharpening sessions should get into well supported steel.

That was my immediate thought too when I saw the first pic. Certainly has the appearance of an overgrind, which may open up with future thinning/sharpening sessions. When the edge in that area is rested on a flat surface does the entire edge make contact?

 

[Noodle]

I wouldn’t worry about it. Garlic skin is a weird case. It causes abnormal stress on the edge from both the toughness of the skin plus the fact that the clove is at an angle when you’re cutting so pressure on the edge isn’t straight on. The skin is tough and slippery so you react by pressing down harder, effectively putting a lot of lateral pressure on the edge which we all know is no-no.

But yeah, the garlic thing I’ve done for years without issue until the Yoshi. Now I smash and peel my garlic first with a bench scraper. Anyway, no issues with my Yoshi in the 7 months since my own garlic incident (other than me dropping it, that is).

Yeah, “dropping”… no good. That kind of thing I don’t expect anybody to help me with. It only happened once before I learned to just let it go and deal with the consequences of a broken tip. Better that than dealing with the consequences AND dealing with a gash on my hand or leg trying to catch it.

But, as far as this garlic issue goes, maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think anything sold as a kitchen knife should lose out to garlic: skin, clove, whole head—whatever. Bone, sure. Peach pits, understandable. Frozen food, no brainer. But when garlic kicks your knife’s ass, there’s an issue (IMO). I mean, if this were a game of rock, paper, scissors, my forged steel knife should win every time. Unless I actually am crazy, which is possible.

I’m half-joking here, as I think I understand the general principles of thin hard metal having limits regardless of what it is responding to. But I keep imagining what any of my "non-knife" friends would say when I told them the edge of my $300+ new knife collapsed when I was cutting garlic. I really do hope that putting on a new edge will solve the issue, as I’ve never babied any of my knives and don’t want to start now. Treated them with respect and care, yes, but not like delicate, fragile instruments. Maybe a Yoshikane was a bad choice for me, but we’ll see. It’s certainly a good-looking knife, and I hope it turns out as practical as it is pretty.

 

[Noodle]

All 4 Yoshis I’ve had microchipped at their first sight of a cutting board. I also had an edge roll on another knife with an extreme nail flexing edge, cutting fried pork belly. Take home: don’t sweat it, now you know your knives need a slightly more robust edge the way you’re going to use them. It’s cool. Now you get to set your own edge, see how it works and adjust again if need be. All part of the normal process.

If you really like that type of super thin edge, now you know it’s only for very soft items. You can always have another knife for heavy work as well.

A fabric strop will tear, so I'd avoid that. A honing rod will not “realign” the edge, don’t believe that nonsense. Take it to a stone and cut the damage out. A damaged edge will continue to fail, just like when a crack starts in your window it will propagate. You don’t need to sharpen much, but don’t leave it. It’s a tool, do the proper maintenance.

Good to get this perspective. I like a do-it-all knife, if possible, when cooking, so will try a new edge and play with that. I have an old Hand American glass rod and tried to use that at first to straighten it a bit, but wasn't successful (as your own video shows), so will put it on stones when I have the time.

 

[Noodle]

I may be seeing it wrong, but it looks to me like the bevel reveal is wider on either side of the rolled section which would be the case if there was a slight overgrind. I don't see it as anything to be concerned about as a few sharpening sessions should get into well supported steel.

Actually, I think the bevel is pretty even and what you're seeing is the result of a shallow depth of field in the photos. If you look down the side of the knife, you'll see an area of focus and on either side areas where it goes out of focus. I think that's what's happening on the bevel. Will provide some more pics later. Thank you.

 

[Noodle]

That was my immediate thought too when I saw the first pic. Certainly has the appearance of an overgrind, which may open up with future thinning/sharpening sessions. When the edge in that area is rested on a flat surface does the entire edge make contact?

I don't "think" it's overground--to my eye--but admittedly don't have lots of experience with that either. Will take some more pics and upload later. Thank you.

 

[Jason183]

When I first started my knife journey, I was only looking for do-it-all type of workhorse knife too. But I realized it just doesn’t exist, one can do delicate work but cannot cut through bones. The other ones can destroy bones no problem but can wedge on specific produce or can’t do precise work perfectly.
BTW, I’m not try to convince you to try more knives.

 

[KingShapton]

But, as far as this garlic issue goes, maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think anything sold as a kitchen knife should lose out to garlic: skin, clove, whole head—whatever. Bone, sure. Peach pits, understandable. Frozen food, no brainer. But when garlic kicks your knife’s ass, there’s an issue (IMO).

But I keep imagining what any of my "non-knife" friends would say when I told them the edge of my $300+ new knife collapsed when I was cutting garlic. I really do hope that putting on a new edge will solve the issue, as I’ve never babied any of my knives and don’t want to start now. Treated them with respect and care, yes, but not like delicate, fragile instruments

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

Will provide some more pics later. Thank you.

I do know that sometimes pictures show artifacts that don't exist.

 

[Pie]

Yeah, “dropping”… no good. That kind of thing I don’t expect anybody to help me with. It only happened once before I learned to just let it go and deal with the consequences of a broken tip. Better that than dealing with the consequences AND dealing with a gash on my hand or leg trying to catch it.

But, as far as this garlic issue goes, maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think anything sold as a kitchen knife should lose out to garlic: skin, clove, whole head—whatever. Bone, sure. Peach pits, understandable. Frozen food, no brainer. But when garlic kicks your knife’s ass, there’s an issue (IMO). I mean, if this were a game of rock, paper, scissors, my forged steel knife should win every time. Unless I actually am crazy, which is possible.

I’m half-joking here, as I think I understand the general principles of thin hard metal having limits regardless of what it is responding to. But I keep imagining what any of my "non-knife" friends would say when I told them the edge of my $300+ new knife collapsed when I was cutting garlic. I really do hope that putting on a new edge will solve the issue, as I’ve never babied any of my knives and don’t want to start now. Treated them with respect and care, yes, but not like delicate, fragile instruments. Maybe a Yoshikane was a bad choice for me, but we’ll see. It’s certainly a good-looking knife, and I hope it turns out as practical as it is pretty.

I agree with these sentiments to a degree - however there are kitchen knives entirely capable of these rough sorts of tasks, they just won’t be as good for delicate work.

I suppose an ideal solution could be a cleaver ground super thick at the back, and super thin at the front (with corresponding spine taper). Custom? Probably. Way more than $300? Also probably.

I was actually excited when I found a knife that microchipped readily vs a pineapple, partly because I get to put my own edge on it, and party because I finally found something thin enough ootb. It *destroys* hard, wedgy product, and is the most effortless cutter I own, but it’s simply not built for banging away at crusty/hard things at weird twisty angles.

hopefully your Yoshi will happily find a niche in your kitchen!