New to sharpening and need help...

[ian]

In think there we mostly see where your fingers were pressing on the other side.

There’s no way that’s just from finger pressure. They’re low spots. It’s not like some parts are thinned a little more than others… there are barely any scratches on the low spots.

OP: you can get rid of all low spots, but it might essentially mean you regrind the knife. Those Dao Vua knives are not known for consistent grinds. Making it nice and consistent for a few mm behind the edge or so, like @M1k3 was saying, is a good idea. If desired, you can refinish the blade with sandpaper, which will go in and out of the low spots, and then put on an even looking edge bevel with stones.

 

[stringer]

Are we looking at the same image? Maybe it is an optical illusion but I cannot see this as anything other than mud.

View attachment 161152

I think he's saying those are high spots that got shiny

 

[ModRQC]

There’s no way that’s just from finger pressure. They’re low spots. It’s not like some parts are thinned a little more than others… there are barely any scratches on the low spots.

OP: you can get rid of all low spots, but it might essentially mean you regrind the knife. Those Dao Vua knives are not known for consistent grinds. Making it nice and consistent for a few mm behind the edge or so, like @M1k3 was saying, is a good idea. If desired, you can refinish the blade with sandpaper, which will go in and out of the low spots, and then put on an even looking edge bevel with stones.

Unless I see the guy grinding that bevel, I'm quite surprised you'd say that. Typical results in my mind of very little work carried yet and getting scared so I do not see your point at all.

Edit: I've never seen such obvious untouched spots with ANY knife whatsoever unless pressuring some same spots and stopping dead out of scare or just not being conscious at all and applying full pressure at a 15* angle in some places while working low pressure at a very low angle at others, and anything in between.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Are we looking at the same image? Maybe it is an optical illusion but I cannot see this as anything other than mud.

View attachment 161152

I don't see that at all.

OP, I'd just soldier on.

 

[ModRQC]

I don't see that at all.

OP, I'd just soldier on.

He's half right I believe.... on the edge, wasn't wipped correctly. Out of not wanting to cut himself or not realizing the different angles the towel/rag did not meet. The rest seems clean and yes, some of it results of mud overheads, but I indeed do not see the mud itself being still there.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It's the dress all over again!

 

[ModRQC]

It's the dress all over again!

Aaah yes... if Blue and Black or White and Gold would be my only of two absolute choices for that picture and natural light refraction and/or filter, I'll just renounce eyesight entirely at that point.

Black? Who sees black in these stripes?

Studies into perception can stop there. That is just plain, sold all around bad screen RGB on many devices if there's black there.

 

[ian]

Unless I see the guy grinding that bevel, I'm quite surprised you'd say that. Typical results in my mind of very little work carried yet and getting scared so I do not see your point at all.

Edit: I've never seen such obvious untouched spots with ANY knife whatsoever unless pressuring some same spots and stopping dead out of scare or just not being conscious at all and applying full pressure at a 15* angle in some places while working low pressure at a very low angle at others, and anything in between.

I see untouched spots all the time when the blade has low spots. The OP started on SG 500 and then went to SP 320 iirc, presumably because the work wasn’t going fast enough. I don’t think this is a case of “5 swipes and I’m too scared to continue”, although if the blade road was flat I still think there’s no way it would look like that even if he did stop after 5 strokes. That blade just looks like the grind is crazy uneven. Which is not surprising at all given that it’s a Dao Vua.

Anyway, you’re right that I don’t know what his thinning mechanics looked like. Presumably the OP can verify that they’re high/low spots, though, if that’s the case.

 

[ModRQC]

You don't know SP320 if he did anything more than a few, pressured at the same place on same areas strokes. There's no way you do a full heel to tip thing on a sufficiently watered SP320 and don't develop some mud enough that there's no bad grind to look like this, even a Dao Vua, that wouldn't also show with any factory finish because it means VERY IMPORTANT grind wonks are happening there. Like impossible grind wonks. Impossible like it looks so obvious to me from that picture.

Unless...

But yeah whatever.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I don't know about the SP, but the SG500 isn't leaving mud on the blade.

 

[ian]

You don't know SP320 if he did anything more than a few, pressured at the same place on same areas strokes. There's no way you do a full heel to tip thing on a sufficiently watered SP320 and don't develop some mud enough that there's no bad grind to look like this, even a Dao Vua, that wouldn't also show with any factory finish because it means VERY IMPORTANT grind wonks are happening there. Like impossible grind wonks. Impossible like it looks so obvious to me from that picture.

Unless...

But yeah whatever.

Only the OP can tell us, I suppose! ❤

 

[ModRQC]

Good luck on that if we dissected this that much ahead of any answer of his. In more than 75% of human cases such an answer would be tainted by the follow-up of answers one likes the most.

Oh God... can't ever get rid of both my analyst side and my pessimistic side....

In effect I almost included that in my last answer... but I just CAN'T believe what I don't see against what I do.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

... but I just CAN'T believe what I don't see against what I do.

That's what I am suffering; I see mud even if I am assured that it is absolutely not there.

 

[ModRQC]

I don't know about the SP, but the SG500 isn't leaving mud on the blade.

Not on the blade road. What @Mr.Wizard remarks about the edge though is indeed weird, but not surprising if one considers OP just took a picture after some quick wiping of water/dirt he readily saw on the blade.

 

[ModRQC]

That's what I am suffering; I see mud even if I am assured that it is absolutely not there.

The above.

 

[ModRQC]

To keep adding to already edited picture, we see 7 different red circles/ellipses I added, from left (1) to right (7):

1 - it just happened out of hitting the stones in angles all kind of wrong or applying much pressure on the very heel at first not knowing; getting afraid; trying to keep the scratches thereoff lower still unsure do I want to go there/what's there. Checking my other side often. OR... distancing my pressure points way too much because these where my first strokes and I didn't know what to expect at all.

2 - a clear two finger falling back into more pressure yet getting quite shy right after again. In the right after, we see...

3- a shift of one of those two fingers in 2, for a couple strokes. Hard to determine, was it seeing that spot, or just the much more plainer #2, that got the OP so shy in the following segment? That following segment I did not circle is what makes me doubt of the otherwise so very obvious first "overgrind" I did NOT circle neither. In my sense, no real as much pressure/work at all ever happened there. If a getting scared thing it was applyting pressure close to tip of heel in an exploratory fashion and realizing angle was off/these stone things are acting weird with angle/what I see. SP320 is good at that.

4-Another clear two fingers, now somewhat distanced. Trying to get the bearing of this thing and close/distanced fingers or wrong judging of how the sratch pattern carries have proven real scary real fast so far.

5- I'd say, starting to understand pressure level has more effeciency. and understanding there is no going back for sure by now. Two fingers but with one now overriding the other? A common mistake/happenstance of unsure sharpening/thinning/polishing of such kind almost naturally occurs where a blade gets much narrower for someone not execting/foreseeing it as a more delicate area to thread on. More pressure also a common mistake of feeling the angle applied before not touching/feeling like it did an inch before.

6-7 bla bla bla....

 

[M1k3]

If OP didn't let us know the maker and wanted us to guess, I would of picked TFTFTFTFTFTF

 

[JASinIL2006]

I truly appreciate the input from everyone. To clarify, there is absolutely no mud or anything on the blade. The light spots that you see are not mud, they are shiny spots from where I was rubbing the blade over the stone. Absolutely nothing on the blade, other than the marker. Of this, you can be 100% certain. The marks you see in the kurouchi are scuffs, not mud. The stuff in the red ovals in @ModRQC’s edited pic are either shiny spots from the stone or, near the edge, places where the sharpie was worn off.

Also, I did not just run the right side of the knife over my SP 320 stone four or five times. I worked on it for a good 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer. Although my technique is pretty rudimentary, I was moving the pressure points of my fingers up and down the blade and towards and away from the edge, in the hopes of figuring out why I had these spots that were not getting cleaned up. I don’t think it’s the hollows are caused by where I was putting pressure on the blade.

@ian in post #38 has it exactly right.

 

[JASinIL2006]

If OP didn't let us know the maker and wanted us to guess, I would of picked TFTFTFTFTFTF

I think the TFs look pretty refined compared to my DaoVua!

 

[madmotts]

Sympathizing with the OP. I’m pretty novice to thinning but that untouched/low area is giving me flashbacks. Sometimes you gotta let it be low. There can be irregularities that prevent the knife from being totally flat/even. In a few of my projects last year I gave up and free hand sanded it so it didn’t annoy me as much.

 

[Garm]

I agree with @ian here, given how the OP is describing his process.
I'm working on a Munetoshi atm with some similar, albeit less dramatically, troublesome areas. I've just decided to let a few of them remain rather than losing too much material.
But then again, I also see a blue dress with black stripes..

 

[Mr.Wizard]

The stuff in the red ovals in @ModRQC’s edited pic are either shiny spots from the stone or, near the edge, places where the sharpie was worn off.

Also, I did not just run the right side of the knife over my SP 320 stone four or five times. I worked on it for a good 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer.

Thanks, that helps my brain. I can now see the edge as mostly sharpie with some places worn off. Before I was seeing the dark parts as reflection from a clean bevel

If you are determined to even out the grind my earlier advice stands: get something a lot more aggressive. #320 is really too fine for working an area this large.

 

[M1k3]

Thanks, that helps my brain. I can now see the edge as mostly sharpie with some places worn off. Before I was seeing the dark parts as reflection from a clean bevel

If you are determined to even out the grind my earlier advice stands: get something a lot more aggressive. #320 is really too fine for working an area this large.

Sigma 240 or coarse crystolon are good not expensive options.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Sigma 240 or coarse crystolon are good not expensive options.

Something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-Crystolon-Combination-Benchstone/dp/B00CQ884UW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ASLRKR3ECHQE&keywords=Norton+Abrasives+-+St.+Gobain+85450+Crystolon+Coarse%2FFine+Combination+Grit+Benchstone%2C+Premium+Silicon+Carbide+Abrasive%2C+6%22+L+x+2%22+W+x+1%22+H&qid=1642537207&sprefix=norton+abrasives+-+st.+gobain+85450+crystolon+coarse%2Ffine+combination+grit+benchstone%2C+premium+silicon+carbide+abrasive%2C+6+l+x+2+w+x+1+h%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

Something like this?

Yes, but I would prefer a single grit coarse stone available for about the same price. I have an older version of that combo and while the fine side is usable I think most of us already own far nicer stones in the range of the fine Crystolon.

 

[M1k3]

Something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-Crystolon-Combination-Benchstone/dp/B00CQ884UW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ASLRKR3ECHQE&keywords=Norton+Abrasives+-+St.+Gobain+85450+Crystolon+Coarse%2FFine+Combination+Grit+Benchstone%2C+Premium+Silicon+Carbide+Abrasive%2C+6%22+L+x+2%22+W+x+1%22+H&qid=1642537207&sprefix=norton+abrasives+-+st.+gobain+85450+crystolon+coarse%2Ffine+combination+grit+benchstone%2C+premium+silicon+carbide+abrasive%2C+6+l+x+2+w+x+1+h%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1

That's the 6x2 version. If you can deal with that stone size, yes. Otherwise get the 8x2 one.

Norton Combination Crystolon Stone

Made from silicon carbide abrasive, these Norton Combination Crystolon stones can quickly put an edge on your tool or knife. These two-sided stones feature a coarse side for establishing an edge, and a fine side for refining the edge.

www.sharpeningsupplies.com

 

[M1k3]

Norton Crystolon Bench Stone 8" x 3"

SPECIAL: Save when you purchase all 3 grits. The Norton Crystolon bench stones are made of silicon carbide.

www.sharpeningsupplies.com

 

[JASinIL2006]

Norton Crystolon Bench Stone 8" x 3"

SPECIAL: Save when you purchase all 3 grits. The Norton Crystolon bench stones are made of silicon carbide.

www.sharpeningsupplies.com

Thanks!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thanks!

I've used Crystolons for years and I use them with oil. Others do not. For the kind of work you're talking about, you can use laxative grad mineral oil.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Oil rather than water? Are there advantages to using one or the other for this type of work?