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Karl Dial

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Been eyeing a 150mm honesuki from Goko (white 1 - screaming sharp but very reactive (keep your towel handy)). I am looking to own at least one of each major type of knife (gyuto (many of these), santoku, bunka, nakiri, petty, sujuhiki and at least one single bevel ???). Anyways, SKS and District Cutlery both offer it and the 240mm gyuto. But the price of the hone’ is like 90% of the price of the gyuto for like half the knife. At SKS, the price of the 210mm gyuto is actually less than the hone’. ***? Would like the hone’ but the gyuto seems like the better investment with this line. Leaning towards maybe another hone’ later. What do you guys think and any suggestions on a carbon honesuki <$300?
 

HumbleHomeCook

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I very much love my honesuki but the only thing it does better than my $15 F. Dick boning knife is make me smile. I've just always wanted one but the end product is no different.

I spent $60 on my carbon steel honesuki and use it weekly. The only reason to spend over $200 on a honesuki is because you really like that particular model.
 

Jovidah

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Adding some of my cents.
1) Is this a good plan for periodic sharpening?
Arashiyama 1000 -> Chosera Pro 3000 -> Shapton 8000 -> CKTG Bovine Strop with green compound
Looking at purchasing the Arashiyama and Chosera (this is the new version without the wooden base). Bought the Shapton several weeks back. It is like glass.

2) How about right out of the box? Do you first test it out or do you automatically touch it with say the Shapton 8000?

3) How often do you sharpen/strop? How often do you strop only?

Any advice for a newbie would be greatly appreciated?
As you probably gathered from the other responses sharpening preferences vary, and there's a lot of options that can all be valid. If you care about budget the strop is the thing you can cheap out on the most; cardboard, cereal package, old piece of leather, or even doing it on stones or newspaper can all work.

I haven't used the Arashiyama 1k but I remember Jon (from JKI) speaking positively of it in the past which is enough endorsement for me, and I really like my Arashiyama 6k. I love my Naniwa Pro 3k (its basically the same as chosera) but if I had the choice I'd actually prefer it to be the based version.

I normally use knives with the out of the box edge as long as I can bear it becuase I'm lazy.

How often I sharpen... not as much as I should. I have to bad habbit of just grabbing another knife... Ironically life was easier as I had less knives. My suggestion would just 'whenever you feel it needs it'. I don't think there's a set interval. Can vary a lot depending upon how much you use it, how many knives you have and what steel it is.

Looking at a Masamoto KS and Sukenari HAP40 from Burrfection, a Kato SG2 from CKTG, a Saji B2 from Sugi Cutlery and a Makoto Kurosaki AS from Carbon Knife. All sold out. Patience is important in this hobby.
Both Masamoto and Sukenari are sold both by K&S and JCK, and also by plenty of other vendors. These knives are all.... extremely different though. It would help if you had some idea of what you're looking for in a knife, because these are essentially apples and oranges.

Lots of knives are out of stock since covid broke the world.

These seem to be in Stock at KnS. KnS is a reputable vendor who happens to be a forum sponsor. Great range of handle upgrades if you ask, as well. I especially love the new heart shaped handles with the tapered ferrule.



When comparing prices, note that the Aussie micro dollar is only worth 70ish US cents and overseas buyers don't need to pay GST (VAT).

Their US site even seems to have a KS special with an ebony handle:
Though I agree the K&S handles are awesome I'm not sure I'd consider an ebony handle on a KS an upgrade. Mine is relatively light, and I don't think an ebony handle would improve the balance. The original handles don't exactly win top marks for looks and fancyness (they feel a bit rough to the touch), but they are actually really comfortable and practical in usage.

Ryky of Burrfection swears by the Cerax 1000, Chosera 3000 and Shapton 8000. Maybe I put too much confidence into one “expert.”
The main problem is that he isn't an expert.
More on the topic I'm scratching my head why you'd mix soaking and S&G stones in the same stone lineup.

Been eyeing a 150mm honesuki from Goko (white 1 - screaming sharp but very reactive (keep your towel handy)). I am looking to own at least one of each major type of knife (gyuto (many of these), santoku, bunka, nakiri, petty, sujuhiki and at least one single bevel ???). Anyways, SKS and District Cutlery both offer it and the 240mm gyuto. But the price of the hone’ is like 90% of the price of the gyuto for like half the knife. At SKS, the price of the 210mm gyuto is actually less than the hone’. ***? Would like the hone’ but the gyuto seems like the better investment with this line. Leaning towards maybe another hone’ later. What do you guys think and any suggestions on a carbon honesuki <$300?
Honestly white steel really isn't all that reactive at all. Whenever people complain about reactivity on white steel knives it's usually the cladding that's the problem. And especially on something like a honesuki reactivity is a non-issue IMO.
For something like a honesuki some of the cheaper options are perfectly fine, and actually might be preferable. Personally I genuinely prefer a western handle with something 'abuseproof' like pakkawood and a sharp spine on a honesuki.

Unless you are running a yakitori restaurant I don't see the point in spending 300 bucks on a honesuki. I'd get one of the affordable ones (Kanehide, Masakane, Fujiwara, Misono, Carbonext, Tojiro; take your pick) and put the money you save into knives you actually use on a daily basis like gyutos.
 
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Great advice from @Jovidah above.

Re: stropping, I recently ordered the magnetic-backed kangaroo + diamond spray kit from CKTG (url will be obfuscated but it’s easily searched). I haven’t received it yet but heard good things here and on Reddit.
 
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Jovidah

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So it sounds like I basically wasted $60 on my Shap8000. I am looking at a 1000 and 3000. Do you guys recommend Arashiyama or Cerax as my 1000 and Chosera as my 3000?
Skipped over this one.
Any particular reason you're choosing between these two? If you're already considering the Chosera / Naniwa Pro 3k for example, the 1k is also really nice. Others love their 800 grit version. Not say you have to buy them all from the same lineup (nothing wrong mixing brands), but these aren't the only stones out there.
It helps if you know if you want splash & go stones or soakers (and personally I'd be inclined to make the whole lineup the same type of stones).

I wouldn't say its necessarily a waste to get an 8k stones, but it's in the 'diminishing returns' territory. Your most important stones are the lower grit ones, and they will provide you with an absolutely awesome and functional edge... so in that sense it's not really 'required'. Even someone with at best modest sharpening skills like me can get stuff shaving sharp on the Naniwa 3k.

For what it's worth, technique is more important than the stones, so don't get discouraged by all the info being thrown at you! :)
 

Karl Dial

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Are there any handle shops taking orders for custom handles/blades? I would order a blade from a knife shop and then ship to this handle maker which would custom make a handle, attach and ship back to me. Is this a thing? An idea would be a rainbow dammy with a purpleheart/nickel or brass handle. Just an idea.
 

tostadas

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Are there any handle shops taking orders for custom handles/blades? I would order a blade from a knife shop and then ship to this handle maker which would custom make a handle, attach and ship back to me. Is this a thing? An idea would be a rainbow dammy with a purpleheart/nickel or brass handle. Just an idea.
You can also try
PCPKen

Dustin at RSK

@Bensbites
 

Karl Dial

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Breaking in a highly reactive (white 1 or 2) knife - cooked or raw protein like chicken (blue/purple patina) before acidic veggies like onions, tomatoes or citrus (orange/brown patina). Right?
First white knife experienced an orange patina with an onion. I used 10,000 grit sandpaper to remove most but not all. Want to build a slow patina.
 

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Breaking in a highly reactive (white 1 or 2) knife - cooked or raw protein like chicken (blue/purple patina) before acidic veggies like onions, tomatoes or citrus (orange/brown patina). Right?
First white knife experienced an orange patina with an onion. I used 10,000 grit sandpaper to remove most but not all. Want to build a slow patina.
I don't use fine sandpaper, but rinse with lots of hot water, no soap, wipe with a lot pressure — the linen towel will turn orange /brown, repeat rinsing and wiping until no more stain comes off. Fun to see the colour changing under the tap. Last rinsing with soap to neutralise the acidity.
 

tostadas

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Breaking in a highly reactive (white 1 or 2) knife - cooked or raw protein like chicken (blue/purple patina) before acidic veggies like onions, tomatoes or citrus (orange/brown patina). Right?
First white knife experienced an orange patina with an onion. I used 10,000 grit sandpaper to remove most but not all. Want to build a slow patina.
If you are portioning meat, you can save some of the cut off scraps before u toss em. Rub the meat all over the blade, let it sit for a few minutes, rinse it off with hot water, and repeat a few times.
 

Jovidah

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How reactive a white steel knife is depends on the construction; my white monosteels weren't all that reactive at all, my iron clads were (because it's the cladding that's reactive).
As others said, meat will give you the nice blues, but technically speaking you can just cut what you want if you don't care about the color it takes.
If any yellow-ish patina (maybe rust) deveops you can usually just get it off with a normal kitchen scrubbie if you do it straight away under hot water.
 

Benuser

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If you are portioning meat, you can save some of the cut off scraps before u toss em. Rub the meat all over the blade, let it sit for a few minutes, rinse it off with hot water, and repeat a few times.
With a new knife, I only clean immediately the very edge by cutting in a piece of cork or a towel's seem and wait before cleaning the entire blade after rinsing with a lot of the hottest water.
 

Karl Dial

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Just researching on my most premium 240mm gyuto purchase down the road. Which of the following would you recommend (or you can rank them if you like) - Fujiwara Denka, Konosuke Fujiyama, Masamoto KS, Shigefusa Kitaeji or Toyama Noborikoi? Several of these are definitely out of my price range but I just would like a comparison. I have read that the Masamoto and Shigfefusa may be overrated, the f&f of the Fujiwara may be less than stellar and most reviews on the Konosuke have been very positive. I have not read much on the Toyama. Also how about the Wakui???
Just trying to learn about my new hobby.
Thanks in advance!
 

Jovidah

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I think at that point it's hard to really 'rank' knives... they're all good knives, just different in style and weight, and it largely comes down to what your own personal preferences are.

Only used the KS on that short list so a few words on that:
The one major difference between the Masamoto and the others in that list (which I haven't tried!) is that it's a monosteel. Personally I prefer the cutting feedback and feeling as a result versus any san-mai blade I've tried so far... but that's very much a preference thing. Could see other people feel the opposite way. But it may be worth getting at least one monosteel blade eventually just to see what you prefer (whether that's an Ashi Ginga, Konosuke HD2 or a Masamoto KS, or even maybe even just a cheaper blade).
Overrated is largely in the eye of the beholder and depends largely on how much a knife overlaps with your preferences. Overpriced I can somewhat get behind; they used to be far cheaper in the past, and look rather mundane. It's a great performer IMO and my favorite knife, but you could easily mistake it for a 250 dollar knife.

A few things that come to mind to categorize it:
Flattish profile (but one that 'just works'), low blade height, very good taper which extends further than on for example a Yoshikane, light to middleweight, runs a bit long (240 KS = 250 length), carbon monosteel with low reactivity compared to ironclad, underwhelming edge retention, sharpens easy as pie, food release underwhelming.
 

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About the feeling with san-mai, especially with a carbon core and soft stainless cladding: the damped feeling people have complained about seems IMHO strongly related to not freeing enough of the core steel by thinning behind the edge. See it as a pencil where you have to remove the wood to free the core.
 

Jovidah

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I think I'm the only one really complaining about it. :D I can totally understand if other people don't mind it at all.
I'm not sure your theory holds up... both my Takamura and my Yoshikane are very thin behind the edge, yet the Takamura feels far more mushy than the Yoshi. And both feel different from a monosteel. And so do other san-mai knives that aren't so thin.
 

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I think I'm the only one really complaining about it. :D I can totally understand if other people don't mind it at all.
I'm not sure your theory holds up... both my Takamura and my Yoshikane are very thin behind the edge, yet the Takamura feels far more mushy than the Yoshi. And both feel different from a monosteel. And so do other san-mai knives that aren't so thin.
Haven't used any stainless core san-mai, so I can't compare. Noticed with Hiromoto AS sharpened for others how much the feeling changed, depending on whether there was only a few millimetres of core visible, or a much larger part after heavy thinning and removal of a lot of the soft stainless cladding.
 

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