newbie needs a few new knives - gyuto etc.

[dklyve]

Hi everyone,

Been poking through the forums here and there is a lot of info! Love to cook and finally ditching my old ****** knives for some good quality, just not sure what all I realistically need. Hoping to add a few to the wedding registry but know I will probably end up buying one within the next week or so. Also want to get some sharpening stones, considering two probably 1000 and 5000 currently. Would like a gyuto probably 240mm, and probably at least two more of some other variety to complete the arsenal.


thinking a JA henckels 8in chef for the lady

was looking on amazon because of our gift registry but realizing this limits options.... they have some suisin, global, misono etc.

Thanks for your help!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto + some others (possibly something cheaper than can handle abuse for the lady)

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
could go either way

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
probably 240 but open

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
no

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$600 for 3 or 4 knives


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
don't do a lot of bone work but would like to cover most everything else

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
too ashamed to mention....
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
varies, working on knife skills

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
slicing, chopping, push cutting - again working on my skills

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
good quality for the price, something to use heavily for home use and keep for a long time

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Would be nice if it looks great, but performance most important

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
ok with some carbon but probably want at least one stainless

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
learning to sharpen so not huge concern

 

[kevpenbanc]

James at Knives & Stones has the 240 Tanaka VG10 Nashiji in stock at the moment.
I have the Ginsan version and it's a very good knife, one of the better ones I have actually.
It'll leave you plenty of money left over for the other knives too.

 

[dklyve]

Thanks for that. That looks pretty nice. Currently trying to decide what other styles are worth getting to begin whats looks like will be a knife addiction...

 

[kevpenbanc]

Probably a petty to start with.
I have one of these in 150 and like it a lot.
http://japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuDamascusSeries.html#Damascus

Maybe something else like a santoku/bunka/nakiri as an alternative,to mix things up a bit.
I quite like 180mm myself, seems a good length.

There's lots and lots of choices.
Have fun

 

[Jovidah]

You propose a 240mm (which admittedly is almost the standard among pro users here) but what's your experience before this? Have you at least been using 8 inch/20cm chef knives?
I'm asking because otherwise the jump might be a bit big and a 210 might be a better option.

 

[dklyve]

Probably a petty to start with.
I have one of these in 150 and like it a lot.
http://japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuDamascusSeries.html#Damascus

Maybe something else like a santoku/bunka/nakiri as an alternative,to mix things up a bit.
I quite like 180mm myself, seems a good length.

There's lots and lots of choices.
Have fun

That petty looks pretty awesome! I know the lady always reaches for our santoku as she rock chops everything. Maybe I skip the henkels chef and get her a santoku thats not too pricey and can take some abuse. Thinking maybe a tojiro DP santoku off amazon for $49, or is that too cheap?

Jovidah - As for 240mm I have used 8in chef with no problems, but figured (like you said) everyone seems to gravitate towards 240 gyutos so I figured I could get used to the slightly bigger size with practice and it might be better for larger veggies like cabbage and such. But I'm not sure I will really take full advantage of the length, maybe the 210 would be enough? Or just refine my knife skills some more! ha

 

[Jovidah]

Okay if you're already used to an 8 inch then it isn't too big a step up. Others are a lot more qualified than I to talk about the advantages or disadvantages of 210 vs 240. The main limitation is usually space. When your cutting board or counter space is too small a 240 offers little benefit. Also it becomes a bit harder to do tip work.
Main advantages in my eyes are the ability to cut more in one go, and if you keep your tip on the board while cutting you need to angle the blade less for an equal height product. Also, the 240's often have more blade height. A lot of Japanese 210's are only 43-44 mm and people don't always like that (especially if you have thick fingers). But when preparing just small amounts I did find an 8 inch blade a bit more nimble and easier to do fine work.
Remember though that a lot of users here use the knife in a professional environment where they work through a lot more product. The advantages of a 240 in cutting 4 carrots or 2 peppers at a time become less meaningful when you're just preparing a dinner for 2.

By the way if the lady always rock chops, why doesn't she use a chefs knife? I always found a chef's knife more comfy for that. Santoku's I found nicer for a chopping action.

 

[dklyve]

You bring up a lot of good points. Idk if it makes sense to get a santoku and chef, from what i've read the tojiro santoku might hold an edge longer than a henckels chef for about the same price. Still hard to choose between 210 and 240 for gyuto. Was reading about Itinomonn (for both santoku and gyuto) but honestly have no experience outside of full stainless so kind of unsure. Would be willing to spend a bulk of my budget on gyuto, especially if going with these options below. Would really like a wa handle with the gyuto. Going to buy some stones as well and practice first on some old knives

Currently thinking
Fujiwara FKM 150 petty -$44
tojiro DP santoku - $48

gyuto ????

thanks again for your suggestions

 

[Jovidah]

Well if she likes a santoku you can get her a santoku... but don't give her a santoku just because she's a woman. There's nothing inherently wrong with santokus, but there seems to be a trend to couple women and santoku's....which really doesn't make sense. If she already uses a chef knife, or uses rockchopping a lot I think a gyuto / chef knife might be more useful to her. Tojiro DP gyuto would be same price or cheaper as a Henckels as well
About the specific Tojiro DP santoku; best use the search function...there's bound to be a few people who used it, although most of the Tojiro DP love is usually based on the gyuto's. It doesn't necessarily mean the santoku is good as well.

The switch to carbon...well that mostly depends on how good you are at taking care of your knives. If you're the kind of person of cuts something and then leaves their knives until after dinner without cleaning up... then it's probably not for you. But if you can potty-train yourself to wipe your blade right after using it, and can force yourself to clean it up when not in use you should be fine. Mostly carbon gives easier sharpening and slightly better edges in exchanges for the increased maintenance.
By the way I think JNS also has some semi-stainless options in the Itinomonn line; those might be a nice compromise.

 

[HomeCook]

Maxim at JNS is currently having a sale on Toyama Noborikoi, 20% off today and tomorrow (expires 3/29) with internet code TOYAMA.


http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/toyama-noborikoi/

No VAT for delivery to the US.
If you want the 240mm gyuto try emailing Maxim to get a presale to get the sale price (the Kasumi 240 is currently out if stock).

 

[dklyve]

She likes the santoku but it sounds like a gyuto that isn't too big and overwhelming would be a good fit one she gets used to it. The tojiro 210 gyuto is $52. Worst case she doesn't like it and I guy buy a $50 santoku.

I usually keep my knives pretty clean, so I'm sure I could get in the routine of always wiping down a nice gyuto and drying it right away. Most of the other knives I'm looking at are stainless so I'll just train myself to be careful with the non-tojiro gyuto. Good call on the semistainless, I think that would be a good compromise for the moment. Really don't want to ruin any knives.

I'll poke around the reviews here and see what other options there are for semi stainless gyutos around 200(too many options it seems and I don't have an exact idea of what is most important to me).

Maksim said he won't have any 210 or 240 Toyama Noborikoi gyutos in for a while , only has the 270 currently which I think is too big for me.

Appreciate the much needed help everyone! Decided on these for now and will start a new thread for my search for an awesome gyuto.

Fujiwara FKM 150 petty
Tojiro DP 210 gyuto