No Love for VG-10?

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"In order to maximize the life of the blade, regular honing with a Shun steel will be necessary. Weekly honing will extend the time between sharpening significantly. When the time comes to sharpen these premium blades, we recommend using a whetstone, the Kai electric sharpener (specifically designed to sharpen Shun’s 16° blade angle), or sending the knives to a professional sharpener or to our Tualatin, Oregon center for free sharpening."

https://shun.kaiusaltd.com/product-care
Using a steel is probably the worst you may do, especially with VG-10. It rebuilds an edge from steel that has failed — instead of abrading it. VG-10 is very likely to develop a wire edge: a burr on top of the apex, very sharp, but breaking off at the first use, and taking a bit of the real edge with it. A ruined edge is the result.
As for Shun's sharpening service: never tried it. According to reports in another forum it is no stone sharpening you get, and a lot of steel is being wasted.
 
psfred you make some good points agree that most Shuns chip because of abuse. I sharpened a home persons chipped shuns taught them basic knife care.

Most pro cooks take care of their knives they have to. In a busy production kitchen you better know how to sharpen your knives too. Had a couple of my thin edge carbons borrowed at work & come back with some chips. I can see how a Tojiro DP would work as an all around blade, but would not be my choice in front of a cutting board for hours.

I admit my battery watches junk for surfing limited to cheap waterproof when batteries changed always fog up. The Citizen 100m Eco Drive gave years of service in salt water. Not as a dive watch though. It finally quit after more than a decade of rugged abuse in a banquet kitchen & in the Pacific ocean. Still have my second titanium Eco drive over 10 years still good. Never paid much over 200.00 for a watch even my dress Eco Drive I'm a loyal customer. :) I did find a gold pocket watch cleaning up the house I moved into. Had it cleaned and a new spring. Now it works & keeps good time. The guy who cleaned & fixed it says it is worth over a grand. It just sits in a drawer:(
 
Shuns are pretty bullet proof. I
Notice here that people keep suggesting that other people say they’re chippy-but haven’t heard a first hand account of anyone actually saying that.
What I do see regularly at work is people destroy their shuns in all sorts of ways. The damage would be far worse if these shun users were using nicer jknives.
In reality too many people treat shuns like they’re dexter russels.
 
I have first hand experience of shuns chipping. No abuse, not using them as German knives or Dexters. I don't know about now, but when they came out 15 or so years ago, they were chippy.
 
Not all Shun is VG10.

I have an 8 year old 7" vegetable cleaver I bought when I finally felt I could own nice knives in my home kitchen.
I use it sometimes to cut cheese or half a lemon to be squeezed (stainless so its good with acid ingredients. I would not recommend anyone go out and buy one of these. There are better knives to be had at the price. The "VG-max " steel maintains a good edge for a family long time. I have seen no chippyness. My Shun/ Krammer Mejia 6" gyuto (again good utility knife) is R2 and doesn't chip.

My experience with VG10 is with some Torhiro Dp's, a petty and a suji. No issues with that steel. It sharpens well on diamond plates (Jon has some nice ones in 1k and 6k I use his and DMT's on some knives).
 
Yeah, we’re gonna have to agree to disagree here. Shuns aren’t chippy comparatively. On the stones the steel feels like hard rubber.
I can’t comment on shuns made 15 yrs ago. But in the last 10 years the shuns I’ve come across regardless of steel choice have been distgustingly chip resistant and built for all sorts of novice abuse.
 
I have a couple of VG-10 Shuns that see limited use, but I have noted some chippyness. (Is that even a word?) The Santoku isn't bad, bot the thinner edge knives are definitely a bit chippy.

On another note, does anybody actually use dive watches anymore? When I dive I use one of these:

shearwater-perdix-ai-oc-cc-trimix-computer-with-optional-transmitter.jpg

I have no use for a "dive watch" given the usefulness of modern dive computers.
 
I have a couple of VG-10 Shuns that see limited use, but I have noted some chippyness. (Is that even a word?) The Santoku isn't bad, bot the thinner edge knives are definitely a bit chippy.

On another note, does anybody actually use dive watches anymore? When I dive I use one of these:

View attachment 45450
I have no use for a "dive watch" given the usefulness of modern dive computers.
Rub it in. I am still using a Sunnto Zoop dive computer.At 71 years old,I am not investing in a $1200 dive computer,lol, Sure miss the good old days of a dive watch,depth gauge and dive tables.Back surgery put me out of the water this year so might have to sell about $6000 of new Scuba Pro equipment.
 
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On another note, does anybody actually use dive watches anymore? When I dive I use one of these:

I have no use for a "dive watch" given the usefulness of modern dive computers.

Not everyone buys a "dive watch" for diving. When I bought my first TAG Heuer quartz dive watch years ago, it was because I was doing a lot of saltwater sailing, and had a side gig leading sea kayak tours in South Florida. No need for pressure resist, but we're talking constant exposure to saltwater and sun. Especially in the kayak... you might as well be swimming. I could have used a cheaper watch and just tossed and replaced it, but at the time, I had enough disposable income to spring for a TAG that I liked. It worked great in that environment, and then later on I bought another one that was basically the same with a little more bling for dressier occasions. I just liked the design; not as bulky as some dive watches and just very rugged.

They're both still my main watches, even though I don't to that kind of thing any more (moved up to the Pacific Northwest where the water is too damned cold). If I had a dive hobby I'd be using a computer these days, but for general outdoor ruggedness a "dive watch" still has a place, I think.
 
Chef Doom, I had no intention to insult you and I apologize if I did. After reading this thread word for word, I felt like the topic was straying a little bit so I rephrased my original question. Furthermore, I haven’t raised a single argument. I’m asking a question. You shouted at me.
I wasn't expecting an apology, you were suppose to retaliate.

I miss the good old days where people knew how to fan the flames. [emoji41]
 
I have a couple of VG-10 Shuns that see limited use, but I have noted some chippyness. (Is that even a word?) The Santoku isn't bad, bot the thinner edge knives are definitely a bit chippy.

On another note, does anybody actually use dive watches anymore? When I dive I use one of these:

View attachment 45450
I have no use for a "dive watch" given the usefulness of modern dive computers.

I now use the same shearwater and love it. My previous Suunto Eon Steel failed once on a dive and another time gave me a lockout (computer error not a dive error). My Oceanic OC1 had the strap fail and fall off my wrist as I started my ascent. Modern dive computers get more and more complicated, and are prone to software glitches, dead batteries, complicated menu systems, and hardware failures. Having a backup old-fashioned wristwatch has proven to be a wise decision...same reason I have an integrated 2nd stage and keep a backup mask and fin strap on the boat.
 
I now use the same shearwater and love it. My previous Suunto Eon Steel failed once on a dive and another time gave me a lockout (computer error not a dive error). My Oceanic OC1 had the strap fail and fall off my wrist as I started my ascent. Modern dive computers get more and more complicated, and are prone to software glitches, dead batteries, complicated menu systems, and hardware failures. Having a backup old-fashioned wristwatch has proven to be a wise decision...same reason I have an integrated 2nd stage and keep a backup mask and fin strap on the boat.
Know what you mean.Back in the day,in the 70's and 80's when I taught PADI I had an Aqua Dive Watch and then later on in the years I went to a Seiko.I'm 71 now and just got back into diving three years ago after being away from it for many years,Had to buy all new equipment and wetsuits,about $6000 worth.I am not computer savvy like these new,young divers so trying to get around on a dive computer has been a struggle.I would love the Shearwater instead of my Sunnto Zoop but $$$$. Plus I just had back surgery not to long ago so have to remain dry for awhile.Don't know if I can even dive again.I did try to dive once since in a cold quarry but darn near drowned myself during an emergency underwater and had to kick my way to the surface with 22 pounds of weights and a 100 cubic foot steel on my back.That about done my back in again.I still wear a watch and have underwater dive tables with me as a back up to the new fangled stuff.
 
So , if I do understand this thread well,

People here are wachting on their quartz watch how long time it does take to get a vg10 steel knive chipping , head down in a sink , regulator breathing !??
 
So , if I do understand this thread well,

People here are wachting on their quartz watch how long time it does take to get a vg10 steel knive chipping , head down in a sink , regulator breathing !??
Hey,you are pretty smart.
 
;)

well, pro diving h'd been my job income for the last thirty years and I like kitchen knifes, so no problems here,
but would you suggest some VG10 brands for friends/family members who aren't very carefull with knive maintenance, cutting skills ,...or not :D
 
Get them a Victorinox, and smoothen the shoulders.
Or, more refined, a Misono 440. Finely grained, easy sharpening, splendid F&F.
 
;)

well, pro diving h'd been my job income for the last thirty years and I like kitchen knifes, so no problems here,
but would you suggest some VG10 brands for friends/family members who aren't very carefull with knive maintenance, cutting skills ,...or not :D

I'd say the problem with this case is that vg-10 is japanese steel. And its used in japanese factories that make fairly thin japanese knives.

for the non knife people; german type beefy, thick, higher edge angle blades are better. these are usually made out of 0,4-0,6%C stainless and its usually only hardened to 52-57 or so HRC, this creates a much more abuse resistant blade. it will simply bend/roll before chipping out. since its soft and fairly weak metal.

I think henckels/zwilling/wüsthoff are whats best for "abusers". look on their site what the hardness is for their blades for the different series of knives.
another fairly abuse resistant brand is fiskars. but those blades are very thin to make them cut good, but still soft as wood. they bend easily when people try to open jars and whatever with them.

victorinox are actually quite good. these get razor sharp. and use the same steel as the swiss army knives. I think they harden it to 56-57hrc or so in the kitchen knives. these are quite thin blades, not really flimsy but thin and light. no fancy grinds. you can use steels/rods on these, no problem.

Mac and Globals are in the 57-58Hrc region mostly, except the cryoed macs that are 60 or so. I think they use aus-6 (all global) and aus-8 (all mac). These are very abuse resisitant too. I have not seen many chipped globals and macs. these will most likely cut much much better than henckels/zwilling/wüsthoff regular knives. and for longer too.

also mac is imo better cutters than globals. and the cryoed ones are much much better blades. only a few models are cryoed though (mac calls this the "superior steel"). the dimpled pro/mighty santoku and the gyuto, then the whole superior series. and then the whole ultimate series.

there you have some recommendations for ham fisted people.
 
The Victorinox in the kitchen are made of Krupp's 4116. Grain a bit coarser than with Wüsthof or Zwilling. For the Swiss Army blades a Sandvik is used, 13C26 IIRC.
 
i was lead to believe they used the exact same steel for the kitchen (cherry wood) knives as the army knives main blade.
 
Don't mind VG-10 have given some folks MCUSTA knives and while they come back with microchips they do get an fair amount of abuse. Global knives that got the same treatment ended up "fractally serrated". Big plus is the MCUSTA steel treatment doesn't feel to bad on the stones either.
 
globals feel smeary on the stones imo. its simply too soft to be good (on the stones).
 
globals feel smeary on the stones imo. its simply too soft to be good (on the stones).
Yes they seem to be both soft and chippy. Found them to be quick to sharpen but gum stuff up.
 
Yes they seem to be both soft and chippy. Found them to be quick to sharpen but gum stuff up.
Hard to raise a burr, hard to get rid of it. Pops up again somewhere else after a wile. A nightmare. And indeed, the only soft steel I know capable of chipping.
 
Hard to raise a burr, hard to get rid of it. Pops up again somewhere else after a wile. A nightmare. And indeed, the only soft steel I know capable of chipping.

May be wrong but had the same experience with a 2 stone progression. After about 15 min of futzing around with one they all got some quality time with "Mr Diamond Flattening Plate". Then 300, 800, 3k progression. Burr came off quite quickly and cleanly. Fatigued steel perhaps? Found refreshing the edge really helps when you are getting a lot of inconsistencies with stainless or infrequently maintained knives.
 
I can do a severely worn global in about 10 minutes. i use these stones. atoma 400 for chips, shapton pro 1k (or glass 1k) then either glass 3k or pro 2k. i have done a lot of these. If i really was result oriented i guess i could do a regular abused global in lower than 5 minutes. but then i would be really hardcore going in all steps except the final 10 strokes of the last stone. it would still shave panties.
 
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