No more Bon Appétit for a while

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Michi

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It looks like we'll have to make do without Bon Appétit, which is quite a good YouTube channel:


If you Google a bit, you'll find various other tabloid press articles about this.

I'm disappointed because I thought it was a well-produced and entertaining cooking channel. On the other hand, if the choice is between racial discrimination and a cooking channel, I'll make do without the cooking channel…
 
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backdoc

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I'm going to go against the grain here, because I'm sick of seeing it. But, there's so much rush to judgement going on within the traditional and social media these days. Everything is racism now. And, everyone seems to be too afraid to speak up and be honest or to be a dissenting voice. You have to be sympathetic and agree with all of the racist accusations now-a-days or "YOU'RE A RACIST" you're ostrisized and everyone is afraid to come to your defense for fear of being called names. Heaven forbid anyone have a contrary opinion. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure there is actual racism being perpetuated in the world. There are all kinds of wrongs, grow up - it's a rough world out there. But, true injustice is obscured and watered down by all of the "holier than thou" pseudo racism that it's counterproductive to the cause and actually makes some who weren't racist become racist. There's always more going on in a specific scenario that we see or read about than we all have actual knowledge of. First of all, we don't know the motives. For example, the cops that put their knee on someones throat until they died was wrong. They shouldn't do that to anyone of any race. But, was what they did racism? Did do that specifically because the person committing the crime was black or because they were just power hungry idiots? If they did it because of someone's color, if they sought out people of color to do what they did, then yes they are racists. But, we don't know that. They have to be tried and convicted. The media suggests they and we are supposed to automatically agree, we are all supposed to convict them in the court of public opinion and if we don't, we are racists, too. Now, we are all supposed to see racism where it doesn't exist. I don't know the circumstances under which Sohla was hired. Just because someone has more experience doesn't mean they are more qualified. I'm sure we know that there are people who exists that can do our jobs better who may have less experience. They are just smarter or more talented than we are at doing what we do. I get it. I'm not the smartest and most talented person at my job. There are smarter and more talented people than me out there who could do my job better and, wait for it, have less experience than I have. And, the same is true for you, too. Sohla might have been a victim of racism. I don't know. But, what I do know is that I don't have the facts. And, I am not going to accuse her boss of being a racists when I don't know him or the circumstances around her job. Putting Sohla on air might have been her segway, her audition or opportunity to get experience to move up and increase her salary. Maybe her employer was trying to help her. There are too many unknowns for us to have a reasonable opinion. What did other employees start making when they were hired. Did they have more on air experience? Were they just better at their jobs and have more impressive resumes'? If an employer offers a job and someone takes it, they must feel like it's a fair exchange or they wouldn't take it. When we buy a car, we don't all pay the same price. We know that. It comes down to your ability to negotiate. Maybe Sohla is unable to negotiate as well as others. Maybe she doesn't have the on camera presence. I mean, that has to be considered, right? I mean Outlanders wouldn't have been as popular without a handsome buff guy the ladies love and a gorgeous model the men love, would it?

Personally, I'm sick of the whole mess. I'm not going to patronize the media by watching it. I have completely stopped watching any news at all lately. Maybe I'm burying my head in the sand. But, don't have the stomach to watch the heard mentatlity I see going on around me. I don't know. I just think people are too quick to judge and draw unrelated conclusions these days. They have to have approval (hint, hint: I don't. I don't know you. And, I don't particularly care what you think. I don't wish you to dislike me. But, if you do, that's up to you. I can't control you. I can only control me. So, I won't lose one bit of sleep over it.). Social media is ruining our society because people are too afraid to express a contrary opinion. Well, I'm not. Call me names if you wish. Ban me. Whatever. But, I'm not going to fall in line, jump on the bandwagon and make unfair accusations about people I don't know or situations that I know none of the facts, ESPECIALLY based on the media's portrayal. Just count me out.
 

ExistentialHero

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It looks like we'll have to make do without Bon Appétit, which is quite a good YouTube channel:


If you Google a bit, you'll find various other tabloid press articles about this.

I'm disappointed because I thought it was a well-produced and entertaining cooking channel. On the other hand, if the choice is between racial discrimination and a cooking channel, I'll make do without the cooking channel…
Thanks for sharing, @Michi. Sounds like a really awful situation. I haven't followed BA's content in a while, so I wasn't aware of how bad things have gotten there--hopefully all this sunlight will help disinfect the place and they start treating their staff better.
 

Michi

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I'm going to go against the grain here, because I'm sick of seeing it.
That was a very long first paragraph. Thank you for sharing.

But, was what they did racism? Did do that specifically because the person committing the crime was black or because they were just power hungry idiots? If they did it because of someone's color, if they sought out people of color to do what they did, then yes they are racists. But, we don't know that.
Yes, it is entirely possible that the same cops might have done the same thing to a white man. Supposing that this were actually the case, does this mean that there is no systemic racism in the US?

Putting Sohla on air might have been her segway, her audition or opportunity to get experience to move up and increase her salary. Maybe her employer was trying to help her.
That is such a wonderful example of the trickle-down effect.

I have completely stopped watching any news at all lately.
Sure thing. No more information, no more need to deal with the information.

Just like not testing: no more numbers, no more problem.
 

backdoc

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That was a very long first paragraph. Thank you for sharing.


Yes, it is entirely possible that the same cops might have done the same thing to a white man. Supposing that this were actually the case, does this mean that there is no systemic racism in the US?


That is such a wonderful example of the trickle-down effect.


Sure thing. No more information, no more need to deal with the information.

Just like not testing: no more numbers, no more problem.
And, btw, I wasn’t directing any of what I said to you. I’m sure you’re an awesome person. No disrespect intended to you or anyone.

EDIT: I eluded to this point, but not sure I made the connection. BA is in the entertainment business. An entertainment business should hire and pay people according their entertainment value. Sure, content is important and the cast's technical knowledge is important. But, I watched more for the comedy duo known as Brad Leone and the nameless editor than I did for the actual cooking lessons. So, assuming that experience should dictate the financial compensation is just short sighted. But, that's what the article does. On the contrary, I watch ATK for the cooking content and equipment reviews (although, less now that I saw Bridget Lancaster endorse a draw through knife sharpener and, on top of that, demoed it used incorrectly, but I digress). The point is, BA is/was in the entertainment business and should pay according to entertainment value and the cast's ability to increase viewership. ATK is in the education business and should hire and pay people based on their ability to communicate cooking techniques. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
 
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Midsummer

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We have more problems in our society than just racism. Some are just as ignorant and just as cruel. We certainly need to deal with racism. We must be careful of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. We must not validate whole platforms of policy/agenda based on a single cause no matter how heinous. There are political groups fighting racism who at the same time are pushing their agenda. They have brilliantly made it so that if you disagree with their politics then they narrowly define you as a racist.

It is right that we try to root out ignorance and prejudice in our societies. But we must also be aware of the social/political organizations trying to foist their agenda on the world in the guise of fighting racism. They have intentionally mixed up the public with their scorn, social bullying and loaded messages that appear to allign with righteousness.

The eternal problem is that too many are made afraid to think for themselves or they are too lazy to do so.

We see much the same around here where wide bevel knives are somehow inferior. If you like a wide bevel, you either don’t tell or you boldly proclaim that it isn’t really a wide bevel at all. It has some convexity (bull ****). Convex bevels are not scorned by the political elite.

I hope people learn to think for themselves.
 

WildBoar

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@backdoc make a lot of valid points, at least with respect to here in the US. Right now it is 'trial by social media' -- which means largely by the 20- and 30-somethings. A couple weeks ago there were posted 'warnings' on IG telling restaurants and other businesses that if they did not actively post support for the movement the business names would be published and the businesses would be boycotted. They straight out said you must post support. Following that, there was a big jump in restaurants and chefs posting their support. Not the way to gain support in my opinion...
 

MowgFace

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First of all, we don't know the motives. For example, the cops that put their knee on someones throat until they died was wrong. They shouldn't do that to anyone of any race. But, was what they did racism? Did do that specifically because the person committing the crime was black or because they were just power hungry idiots? If they did it because of someone's color, if they sought out people of color to do what they did, then yes they are racists. But, we don't know that. They have to be tried and convicted.
Unfortunately, the victims of these crimes were not given the opportunity of being tried, nor convicted. Just sentenced to death. Also, historically cops do not get punished for any of their misdeeds.
 

Jville

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I don't know if there was other stuff that was rascist, but that article is bs. I've held my tongue about alot of stuff that is going on that is quite concerning. First, I do believe police brutality and rascism still exists. And I do believe Floyd was, as long with others, a victim of police brutality. But our country as a whole concerning trends on social media and news is absolutely losing any sense of sensibility. I see so much actual rascism coming out in what people are saying is for the cause of rascism. I could spend hours on here talking about examples, but I do not have the time. So I guess, when I was a kid and dresses up like a girl for Halloween I did it to ridicule crossdressers or transgenders? No, we were kids dressing up for Halloween, it had nothing to do with that. We are going to crush this guy for dressing up like a Puerto Rican, meanwhile ignore the herd of elephants that so many people involved in this so called move for racial equality have thrown or still throw around the "N" word unabashedly. The most deragotory and rascist term against blacks that exists. And believe me I have heard all the excuses of why black people get a pass on using the term and it's absolute bs. This white privledge spiel is so overplayed. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in some situations but it is being so blown out of proportion. I'm not saying that as a country/ world we can't become more sensitive, but the lynching, double standards, and rascism coming out right now is ridiculous. For example, on a Facebook page rant concerning Floyd riots someone posted "you should burn down the bass pro shop, then, maybe they will listen." That should of been called out as rascist, instead, people laughed about it. So you are telling me black people don't hunt and fish?? Really? Actually, one black guy did say that would make me mad, referring to burning bass pro shop down. But no one actually called her out because her rascism was meant to be deragotory to whites, when in reality it was rascist against blacks. This is just one example in a sea of ignorance right now.
 
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ian

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I'm sure there are lots of recent examples of people going overboard with the shaming (and also examples of similarly extreme reactions against the movement). Whenever there's a big social shift, there will undoubtably be people pushing farther than most people would like. That doesn't invalidate the movement. Really, it's the only way progress happens.

I know it sucks having to watch your words and change slightly the way you've been operating for the past decades. Change is hella hard for anyone, myself included, and I've had to alter my behavior in recent years too.
 

backdoc

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First, I do believe police brutality and rascism still exists. And I do believe Floyd was, as long with others, a victim of police brutality.
Yes. But the real question is, "do we know that he was victimized because he was black"? That's the problem with all of this. It's all based on a false premise. The knee jerk response is that it was racism. From there on, it's an assumed fact that takes on a life of it's own. It takes no critical thinking whatsoever to draw this conclusion.

These cops should probably be put under the jail, at a minimum. What they did was wrong. But, I don't know that it was racism. No matter what you think, you don't know either. And, for the sake of argument, let's say it is determined that they are racists had set out that day to go kill them some black guy. Then, how does that immediately reflect on all white people or all cops? I have issues with a lot of cops. They all have power trips. But, I also have a best friend who's a cop. These cops don't represent a whole race or a whole profession. It's disingenuous to imply that they do.
 

tgfencer

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I'm sure there are lots of recent examples of people going overboard with the shaming (and also examples of similarly extreme reactions against the movement). Whenever there's a big social shift, there will undoubtably be people pushing farther than most people would like. That doesn't invalidate the movement. Really, it's the only way progress happens.

I know it sucks having to watch your words and change slightly the way you've been operating for the past decades. Change is hella hard for anyone, myself included, and I've had to alter my behavior in recent years too.
I think this is a good point. It might be further extended by saying that black people have had to watch what they do and say all their lives for fear of racial injustice. In fact, I think people who feel victimized, silenced, or cast out by this movement are actually in the perfect place to sympathize with it because they are now understanding a small part of what it feels to live the life of a minority.

(this is not directed specifically at you Ian, I just wanted to use your quote)

Folks may be annoyed by having themselves or others be censored or criticized (rightly or wrongly) since this movement began, but black people have been dealing with that for the whole history of our nation. That anger, irritation, and sense of victim-hood that is coming from feeling like you (a hypothetical you) being unjustly singled out or ignored is a taste of what is experienced by black people every day.

The biggest difference between us white people and them is that while a white person may be annoyed about being called out on social media or confronted about a use of certain language or bothered by what is perceived as a targeting or their social/political/or racial group, our existence and livelihoods are not truly under existential threat. Black people are worried about their families being killed, access to adequate social services (such as healthcare, education, etc) that have been affected by racial inequalities, and equitable treatment within and under the law.

This doesn't make anyone's feelings less valid, but it also doesn't mean you can use your hurt feelings as an excuse to ignore the feelings of the other side. And, if it feels like the other side (aka the movement for equality) is ignoring yours, realize that perhaps it's not personal and that what you're experiencing is not a backlash against any one individual but a combined outcry against an overbearing, unyielding system. And, as with any movement this big hitting our collective national waters, there are bound to be some people unintentional caught up in the waves.

Have people supporting the movement taken it too far sometimes? Yes, but they are a small minority, and given the decades of pent-up emotion and anger, and the very real pain, death, and disenfranchisement involved, it is kind of admirable how relatively limited that kind of purposefully destructive lashing out has been. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, only that you can't blame the whole for a minorities actions just like we don't blame all gun owners when some idiot with a gun shoots someone.
 

tgfencer

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Yes. But the real question is, "do we know that he was victimized because he was black"? That's the problem with all of this. It's all based on a false premise. The knee jerk response is that it was racism. From there on, it's an assumed fact that takes on a life of it's own. It takes no critical thinking whatsoever to draw this conclusion.

These cops should probably be put under the jail, at a minimum. What they did was wrong. But, I don't know that it was racism. No matter what you think, you don't know either. And, for the sake of argument, let's say it is determined that they are racists had set out that day to go kill them some black guy. Then, how does that immediately reflect on all white people or all cops? I have issues with a lot of cops. They all have power trips. But, I also have a best friend who's a cop. These cops don't represent a whole race or a whole profession. It's disingenuous to imply that they do.
I also have a good friend who is a cop. He doesn't feel threatened by this movement. In fact, he welcomes it. He says like most people that he doesn't want to work in an environment where people can get away with murder, racist actions, or unlawful acts. Does it sometimes make him uncomfortable that he might be caught up in the crossfire so to speak? Yes, but that is sometimes the risk of progress.

Think about it like this: Ignore everything to do with the racial motivations of individual cops if you want. You are still left with the central fact that black people are victims of the police far and beyond any other race. That is the central problem this movement is trying to address- how to stop this racially lopsided victimization. Focusing on whether or not the thought ran through a cop's head of "I'm going to kill this guy because he's black" doesn't change the fact that the guy is still black and still dead. In fact, still ignoring racial motivations, there would be no difference in saying that 'people aged 20-30 are disproportionately victimized by police'. Whether the cop was an ageist does matter, but even if he's not, you'd still want to know why this is happening and fix the problem. That is in essence, the problem being addressed by this racial equality movement, how to prevent racial injustice under the law and the hands of police officers.

As I said, this is all assuming you a lack of racial motivations in the actions of any involved police officers, which I think we both know isn't always the case.
 

ian

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Yes. But the real question is, "do we know that he was victimized because he was black"?
I get where you're coming from, but it's sort of irrelevant whether the Floyd murder was racially motivated. The fact is that black people are in general treated very differently than white people by the police, and by society more generally. The Floyd murder was a catalyst for the movement, but the movement is not solely in response to that event.

This comparison is a bit trivializing, but I want to take everything completely out of context: imagine your wife comes home unexpectedly late like 3 times a week, for like a year, and without any good reasons, and finally you get completely fed up with it and blow up at her, and then she produces a legitimate doctor's note for that one day, and uses that to say that everything you were feeling was invalid. You'd be unconvinced, no?
 

ExistentialHero

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Yes. But the real question is, "do we know that he was victimized because he was black"? That's the problem with all of this. It's all based on a false premise. The knee jerk response is that it was racism. From there on, it's an assumed fact that takes on a life of it's own. It takes no critical thinking whatsoever to draw this conclusion.

These cops should probably be put under the jail, at a minimum. What they did was wrong. But, I don't know that it was racism. No matter what you think, you don't know either. And, for the sake of argument, let's say it is determined that they are racists had set out that day to go kill them some black guy. Then, how does that immediately reflect on all white people or all cops? I have issues with a lot of cops. They all have power trips. But, I also have a best friend who's a cop. These cops don't represent a whole race or a whole profession. It's disingenuous to imply that they do.
You're right--there's no way to know what was in the hearts of the cops who killed George Floyd. That's not the issue, though, and that's not what the word "racism" means in this context. The issue is that this kind of thing happens all the time, and it happens massively disproportionately to Black people, so their experience of policing and urban life is far bleaker and more deadly than that of White folks.

If you haven't read it, Ta-Nahesi Coates's piece "The Case for Reparations" is a really compelling deep dive into what American racism means. It focuses on "redlining", the widespread practice of segregating neighborhoods by discriminating against Black buyers in financing, and the follow-on effects this has had on generational wealth and social infrastructure. This is only one of the many ways American institutions align to repress Black people and reinforce White supremacy, but it's a really instructive example.
 

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one of the many ways American institutions align to repress Black people and reinforce White supremacy, but it's a really instructive example.
I am not arguing and I have not read the book you referenced ; but do you think the institutions get together like the Illuminati?

Really, my life experience makes the claim of institutional racism seem less likely than simply the standard preying on the poor.

But now I am going to have to read Mr Coates’s book. It had better be good or it’s the last reading suggestion I take from you.
 

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I am not arguing and I have not read the book you referenced ; but do you think the institutions get together like the Illuminati?

Really, my life experience makes the claim of institutional racism seem less likely than simply the standard preying on the poor.

But now I am going to have to read Mr Coates’s book. It had better be good or it’s the last reading suggestion I take from you.
Haha, giving reading advise is always dangerous.

But also, institutions can both prey on the poor and be racist. The two are not mutually exclusive or even always intentional.
 

ian

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I am not arguing and I have not read the book you referenced ; but do you think the institutions get together like the Illuminati?
I think nowadays it’s more often that slight prejudices influence written and unwritten policy or practice, e.g. race influenced responses by police or the fact that doctors tend to ignore or downplay reports of pain from black people more often than reports from white people. ‘Alignment’ doesn’t have to be orchestrated from the top. It just means many organizations behave similarly in a certain respect. And the fact that black people are poorer on average is absolutely rooted in racism: for instance, they have been the victims of explicitly racist housing policy for a long time, it has been harder for them to get loans, and not many of them had much family wealth to initially pass on in the 1800s, among many other things.
 

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It's not a book. It's an article. Wouldn't take more than an hour to read. Grab a beer and learn something instead of arguing against straw men.
 

Jville

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Yes. But the real question is, "do we know that he was victimized because he was black"? That's the problem with all of this. It's all based on a false premise. The knee jerk response is that it was racism. From there on, it's an assumed fact that takes on a life of it's own. It takes no critical thinking whatsoever to draw this conclusion.

These cops should probably be put under the jail, at a minimum. What they did was wrong. But, I don't know that it was racism. No matter what you think, you don't know either. And, for the sake of argument, let's say it is determined that they are racists had set out that day to go kill them some black guy. Then, how does that immediately reflect on all white people or all cops? I have issues with a lot of cops. They all have power trips. But, I also have a best friend who's a cop. These cops don't represent a whole race or a whole profession. It's disingenuous to imply that they do.
I never said we know that it was rascist. I said I believe it is probably a situation. I also believe there are cases of police brutality. But I am definitely not one who is profiling cops and acting like all cops are bad. That mentality has me very disturbed, so please don't make far based inferences. And I am not supporting that at all. You have misunderstood me greatly!
 

AT5760

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As you read Coates’ essay(ies), remember that he is an advocate. He is not a historian, sociologist, economist, or even a lowly political scientist. Reading only opinion pieces isn’t going to do much if you want to inform yourself on a very nuanced and ugly subject.
 

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There are countless essays, books, dissertations, listicles, tweets, articles, take your pick of whatever length you prefer, from people of every discipline skillfully providing analysis that explains racism in our society at any level you could ask. Choosing to avoid taking any of them seriously, then arguing against some unexamined nonsense idea akin to 'racist bones' is acting in bad faith. It's extremely common and absolutely does not deserve to be taken seriously.
 

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As you read Coates’ essay(ies), remember that he is an advocate. He is not a historian, sociologist, economist, or even a lowly political scientist. Reading only opinion pieces isn’t going to do much if you want to inform yourself on a very nuanced and ugly subject.
That's a gross simplification. He's an author and journalist and does not simply write op-ed pieces.
 

AT5760

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@Barclid, I would argue that he was a journalist. Today and for much of the past decade he has been an advocate, and to some extent an activist. That’s not an insult to him, it’s a reflection of the way his career has transformed.
 

AT5760

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There are countless essays, books, dissertations, listicles, tweets, articles, take your pick of whatever length you prefer, from people of every discipline skillfully providing analysis that explains racism in our society at any level you could ask. Choosing to avoid taking any of them seriously, then arguing against some unexamined nonsense idea akin to 'racist bones' is acting in bad faith. It's extremely common and absolutely does not deserve to be taken seriously.
There is a ton out there, but not all of it should be taken seriously, just as something I decide to right on the history of Michigan (where I was born) shouldn’t be taken seriously. We’re drowning in opinions and starving for well-reasoned, researched, supported analysis.
 

Blerghle

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There is a ton out there, but not all of it should be taken seriously, just as something I decide to right on the history of Michigan (where I was born) shouldn’t be taken seriously. We’re drowning in opinions and starving for well-reasoned, researched, supported analysis.
By any standard of quality, at whatever reading level or for whatever target audience you prefer, there is well supported work. If you think there isn't, you are not looking.
 

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I never said we know that it was rascist. I said I believe it is probably a situation. I also believe there are cases of police brutality. But I am definitely not one who is profiling cops and acting like all cops are bad. That mentality has me very disturbed, so please don't make far based inferences. And I am not supporting that at all. You have misunderstood me greatly!
No. I didn’t misunderstand. On the contrary, I didn’t disagree with you. Sorry. I didn’t mean to imply. My words were sloppy and when I said “you”, I didn’t mean it literally. I meant it figuratively, as the general population, anyone reading it.

I agree with you that the article is total BS. They made assumptions and tried wpass it off as fact.
 
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