I think everyone here can probably guess that 'Cheap Misc. Amazon Combi' stones are not something that you should be rushing out to buy and slot in to your progression among the Naniwas and Suehiros. And though we may have friends or family who've added to the untold fortune of the regrettable Bezos by getting some, how many of us have actually tried them? Are they usable? How do they compare to the better Japanese waterstones that we all have? Well I've now been there, so you don't have to...
I was round at some friends' house yesterday and tried sharpening their knives using a set they'd got (I had also brought my SG500 and a Turkish, just in case). The knives were from L to R; a Serbian Cleaver made from old saw blade steel, a Victorinox stainless Chef's knife, a Sanelli Chef's knife from X40 CR14, Ishishizuchi k-tip petty from Aogami 2, and a Kai Utility knife:
The stones on the left are; a 400/1000 and a 3000/8000, and came with; a faux leather strop, a plastic angle guide thing, a rubbing stone, and a bamboo stone holder, which seemed slightly superfluous given that the stones have rubber bases already. There was also meant to be a flattening stone, a 'honing guide' and some stropping compound, but they didn't make it into the box for some reason.
I actually did the cleaver on my stones, because it has batshit-crazy geometry and I didn't want to experiment on it:
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The first thing that's very noticeable about these stones is that the grit ratings, such as they are, have only the most tenuous of acquaintances with objective reality. As though they had been spat out by a random number generator and printed on the side. The 400 is somewhat higher - perhaps 600, the 1k is only slightly higher than that - maybe 700-800, the 3k is around 1 - 1.5k, and the 8k is pretty similar - something like 1.5 - 2k.
The other thing that's instantly apparent as soon as you use them, is that they don't have a binder. I soaked these for at least an hour beforehand, and there was no mud in use - just the black sharpening swarf, which makes them very unpleasant and gritty-feeling. I don't quite know what they're made out of, but cheap, sintered Silicon Carbide perhaps...(?) Though they're not wear resistant like a Norton Crystolon might be - they do dish. Perhaps not as much as I was expecting, but certainly more than you'd hope for a stone that feels this cr*ppy.
Do they at least work though? Well... yes, after a fashion. The '400' stone is pants, and remarkably slow for a low grit stone. The '1000' is ok, it cuts alright leaving a very aggressive, slightly ragged edge. The '3k' is a mess; rather nasty feeling and doesn't really do anything. The '8k' seems to be an almost identical grit size to the '3k' but slightly more compact. I ended up just using the '1k', and a quick touch up on the '8k', and with a bit of pressure it didn't take long. The pleather strop actually worked alright, and was certainly needed as the edges even off the last stone were pretty saw-like. They did better on the cheaper steels than the Aogami 2 which I then sharpened on my Turkish after with the cleaver.
The biggest problem with these kinds of stones is that they're invariably going to be bought by people are who are completely new to sharpening, and they're very difficult to use well. I like to think I'm an alright sharpener, and I have quite a lot of experience with a wide range of stones, so could get a good enough edge on the knives. But for someone's first whetstone - they're going to give the impression that sharpening a knife is an impossible and futile endeavour, best left to professionals. My friend had tried using them about a week previously, and he clearly knew the basics of what to do; the bevels of the knives were actually set quite well, at appropriate angles, but I assume he'd not really managed to raise burrs properly. Apart from on the cleaver, where he clearly had, because there was a massive one that'd folded over all the way along the edge.
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As I say - none of that will come as a surprise to anyone here I'm sure, or be of much use, apart perhaps to show to people who are threatening to buy something similar. I leave you with some words from the accompanying instruction manual, which after a lengthy explanation of the sharpening method, tells you it's actually probably better just to Youtube it instead. And finishes with a sage warning... 'Do not drop your stone Knives are dangerous , be careful.Keep away from children.'
Well quite.
I was round at some friends' house yesterday and tried sharpening their knives using a set they'd got (I had also brought my SG500 and a Turkish, just in case). The knives were from L to R; a Serbian Cleaver made from old saw blade steel, a Victorinox stainless Chef's knife, a Sanelli Chef's knife from X40 CR14, Ishishizuchi k-tip petty from Aogami 2, and a Kai Utility knife:
The stones on the left are; a 400/1000 and a 3000/8000, and came with; a faux leather strop, a plastic angle guide thing, a rubbing stone, and a bamboo stone holder, which seemed slightly superfluous given that the stones have rubber bases already. There was also meant to be a flattening stone, a 'honing guide' and some stropping compound, but they didn't make it into the box for some reason.
I actually did the cleaver on my stones, because it has batshit-crazy geometry and I didn't want to experiment on it:
---
The first thing that's very noticeable about these stones is that the grit ratings, such as they are, have only the most tenuous of acquaintances with objective reality. As though they had been spat out by a random number generator and printed on the side. The 400 is somewhat higher - perhaps 600, the 1k is only slightly higher than that - maybe 700-800, the 3k is around 1 - 1.5k, and the 8k is pretty similar - something like 1.5 - 2k.
The other thing that's instantly apparent as soon as you use them, is that they don't have a binder. I soaked these for at least an hour beforehand, and there was no mud in use - just the black sharpening swarf, which makes them very unpleasant and gritty-feeling. I don't quite know what they're made out of, but cheap, sintered Silicon Carbide perhaps...(?) Though they're not wear resistant like a Norton Crystolon might be - they do dish. Perhaps not as much as I was expecting, but certainly more than you'd hope for a stone that feels this cr*ppy.
Do they at least work though? Well... yes, after a fashion. The '400' stone is pants, and remarkably slow for a low grit stone. The '1000' is ok, it cuts alright leaving a very aggressive, slightly ragged edge. The '3k' is a mess; rather nasty feeling and doesn't really do anything. The '8k' seems to be an almost identical grit size to the '3k' but slightly more compact. I ended up just using the '1k', and a quick touch up on the '8k', and with a bit of pressure it didn't take long. The pleather strop actually worked alright, and was certainly needed as the edges even off the last stone were pretty saw-like. They did better on the cheaper steels than the Aogami 2 which I then sharpened on my Turkish after with the cleaver.
The biggest problem with these kinds of stones is that they're invariably going to be bought by people are who are completely new to sharpening, and they're very difficult to use well. I like to think I'm an alright sharpener, and I have quite a lot of experience with a wide range of stones, so could get a good enough edge on the knives. But for someone's first whetstone - they're going to give the impression that sharpening a knife is an impossible and futile endeavour, best left to professionals. My friend had tried using them about a week previously, and he clearly knew the basics of what to do; the bevels of the knives were actually set quite well, at appropriate angles, but I assume he'd not really managed to raise burrs properly. Apart from on the cleaver, where he clearly had, because there was a massive one that'd folded over all the way along the edge.
---
As I say - none of that will come as a surprise to anyone here I'm sure, or be of much use, apart perhaps to show to people who are threatening to buy something similar. I leave you with some words from the accompanying instruction manual, which after a lengthy explanation of the sharpening method, tells you it's actually probably better just to Youtube it instead. And finishes with a sage warning... 'Do not drop your stone Knives are dangerous , be careful.Keep away from children.'
Well quite.
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