Old Beater Meet New Beater

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by stringer, Dec 10, 2019.

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  1. Dec 10, 2019 #1

    stringer

    stringer

    stringer

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    You know that feeling when you start getting bruises and cuts on your knuckles because you're favorite beater has been sharpened too many times?

    IMG_20191210_121706.jpg

    What can it mean? Only one thing. New knife day.
    Kanehide TK 240
    3 years old vs new.

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  2. Dec 10, 2019 #2
  3. Dec 10, 2019 #3
  4. Dec 10, 2019 #4

    Carl Kotte

    Carl Kotte

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    It’s served you well! Welcome to the world, new beater!
     
  5. Dec 10, 2019 #5

    Nikabrik

    Nikabrik

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    It's also new suji day! :D
     
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  6. Dec 11, 2019 #6

    Raleighcook15

    Raleighcook15

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    I loved my tk. Although i gave it away before it got that low!
     
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  7. Dec 11, 2019 #7

    Dhoff

    Dhoff

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    Looks great. I'm still amazed as a home cook that a knife can be used this much. My head knows, my heart does not.

    What will you do with the old one mate?
     
  8. Dec 11, 2019 #8

    Chefgibson

    Chefgibson

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    Be fun to reprofile the old one into a small slicer / line knife :rolleyes:
     
  9. Dec 11, 2019 #9

    nonoyes

    nonoyes

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    Wow. It appears that you've thinned the heck out of that thing, and yet you can still see in the dueling choils picture how quickly it gets thick above the edge, and how abruptly the bevel starts. Or am I deceived?

    How was it performing other than banging knuckles?

    Great pics, great demonstration. Thanks for sharing.
     
  10. Dec 11, 2019 #10

    stringer

    stringer

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    The choil shot is deceiving. The front 2/3 has been thinned dramatically. I know Ian doesn't like it, but in this case the front the front half of the knife has been thinned down to a true zero edge. The back 1/3 is not thinned nearly as much. I sharpen the knife pretty much flat on the stone. To finish it I add some convexity by shifting my finger pressure closer to the apex. Then I add about a 75 degree inclusive nanobevel. The performance is impressive. I would classify this knife OOTB as a light middle weight. Now the tip and front third performs like a really well tuned Sujihiki, a laser Gyuto for the middle third, and the heel has no problem with chicken bones. It really breaks my heart because it will be awhile before the new one is as broken in. But I was slicing a case of bread the other day and I literally bloodied my knuckles from repeatedly punching the cutting board with really crusty bread crumbs on the board.
     
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  11. Dec 11, 2019 #11

    MarkC

    MarkC

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    You have owned a used a lot of knives since your first version of this knife, curious why you decided to buy another one of these.
     
  12. Dec 11, 2019 #12

    stringer

    stringer

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    I need something tough, cheap, and easy to sharpen. Something I can leave out on the prep table all day without fear of someone stealing or breaking it. I get a new knife in this category about every 2-3 years. Here's the ones I've tried over the years:
    Shun Classic
    Global
    Mac Pro
    Misono UX10
    Kikuichi TKC

    Out of all these I would go with the Kanehide. I almost bought one of the Komakiri versions from Carbon but then I wouldn't have been able to do the side by side shot with the old one and the new one.
     
  13. Dec 12, 2019 #13

    captaincaed

    captaincaed

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    This dude cuts
     
  14. Dec 14, 2019 #14

    HappyamateurDK

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    How much use and sharpening does it take to wear down a knife like that in 3 years ?
     
  15. Dec 14, 2019 #15

    stringer

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    It's sharpened about twice a week. I leave it out on the prep table for anyone to use so it takes a lot of abuse. I also keep it as thin as I can so there are often chips which means I have to grind farther than I would otherwise. But the thin geometry means it feels sharper longer. So there's a constant balancing act. I'm getting my new knife it's first trip to the stones today. I'll post some pics later.
     
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  16. Dec 14, 2019 #16

    HappyamateurDK

    HappyamateurDK

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    For an amateur like myself that kind of wear seem extreme. But with about 300 sharpenings it makes sense
     
  17. Dec 15, 2019 #17

    stringer

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    Ok here's some pics. I do 95% of my work sharpening with a Shapton Pro 1k and a Naniwa Super Stone 2k. I use a Shapton Glass 500 if there are chips. I thin a little each time. Focusing mainly on the tip. I make the bit next to the heel thicker to be able to withstand more abuse. Someone already managed to tip the poor little guy. Such is life.

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  18. Dec 15, 2019 #18

    TSF415

    TSF415

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    Do you do the thinning with the 1kpro?
     
  19. Dec 15, 2019 #19

    stringer

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    Yup. I thin and sharpen at the same time. I maintain as close to a zero bevel as possible for the front half of the knife. So when I sharpen the blade is laid flat on the stone at the tip. As I work my way down I bring the spine up off the stone a little at a time and then the heel is about 35 degrees inclusive. I raise a burr on one side then the other and then about 50 alternating edge leading sweeping rolling x strokes. I strop on a split leather paddle strop loaded with CrOx in between stones. Then go to the 2k. Same process. To finish I micro convex the apex and then apply a very chunky but extremely tiny micro bevel. Feather soft touch at about 75 degrees inclusive. If my sharpening gets out ahead of my thinning then I will notice a thickening behind the edge. Then I will bring the knife home and thin it on my Crystolon or a 250 or whatever. If the knife starts getting too thin then I will notice excessive chipping and rolling. Then I bring the knife home and drop down to maybe 800 grit and thicken everything up a little. I very rarely have to do this. Maybe once or twice per year. Less after the first year because by then I will be pretty dialed in.

    Some knives require more work up front. This knife is pretty close to my ideal profile and edge geometry OOTB. So mostly I'll just be maintaining it.

    Every knife is different. My Watanabe was way too thin and took me a while to dial in the right bevel angle, but now it's very stable. My Sabatier was way too thick and took a lot of thinning before I liked how it cut. It still weighs over 400 grams or something. My ShiHan had way too chunky a micro bevel for my tastes that took a lot of heavy thinning to get rid of. I also wanted the tip more nimble which required even more thinning. I've never done much of anything to my Ashi sujis. They just work. Get touched up about once per month. And they cut hundreds of pounds of boneless protein between sharpenings. Board contact is the ultimate edge killer.

    I can maintain a working edge for about a month with just a ceramic rod, but I prefer the feeling of a straight off the stones edge so I sharpen my most used knife (this Kanehide) at least twice a week like if I have the time. And it doesn't take much time to keep it fresh with regular maintenance.
     
  20. Dec 15, 2019 #20

    labor of love

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    I do a significant amount of thinning near the tip with shapton pro 1k after cerax 320.

    Ive made mistakes in the past thinning near the tip w 200ish grit stones so I don’t do it anymore.
     
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  21. Dec 15, 2019 #21

    stringer

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    I've also made a few mistakes at the tip with the belt sander. So I don't do that anymore either.
     
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  22. Dec 15, 2019 #22

    big D

    big D

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    Enjoy many of your posts, so thank you for them.
    May I ask the heights of the old and new one? You often say you only lose about a mill a year, but I presume that is on a knife that you are not often removing somewhat serous chips. Curious on the true measurements in this specific case.
    Thanks,
    D.
     
  23. Dec 15, 2019 #23

    stringer

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    I think the new one is 51 and the old one is about 45. I'm off work for the next few days but I'll double check when I return. Chip repairs definitely lead to more wear.
     
  24. Dec 15, 2019 #24

    big D

    big D

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    Thank you stringer
    D.
     
  25. Dec 16, 2019 #25

    dafox

    dafox

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    I can attest to the way stringer sharpens his knives, i have his old Kikuichi TKC 210 gyuto, it's one of my favorites, cuts great with a perfectly thin tip and thin behind the edge but holds up well.
     
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  26. Dec 16, 2019 #26

    TSF415

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    Why don’t you start the thinning process with the sg500? (Asking as a newb) I thought it was supposed to be with coarse stone and then progress to make quick work of it.
     
  27. Dec 16, 2019 #27

    M1k3

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    That's what he has at work. If he needs coarser it goes home.
     
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  28. Dec 16, 2019 #28

    stringer

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    It's all about balance. If you only focus on your primary bevel then your knife thickens behind the edge after 4-5 sharpenings and then you have to thin. I avoid that and thin a little each time. Just enough to keep the same geometry and compensate for how much I am removing from the edge.
    And I do keep a 500 at work. It's badly dished and nearly wore out. I use it for fixing major damage and reprofiling coworkers knives. I don't need it for the Kanehide. I like the geometry in this case, I just want to maintain it. If you take the photos of this one and look at the one that's three years old you can see the progression of the thinning. Or at least the beginnings and the endings.
    For major thinning, like grinding a blank into a knife or turning a mid weight cleaver into a laser I'll use something far more coarse. At my home workshop I have a belt sander, a Debado 250, King 320, Crystolon coarse, various diamond plates, etc. But once a knife is setup I'm highly proficient at maintaining it with very little. The Super Stone 2k is actually all I used for a lot of years. But if you don't have another stone to nagura it with it loads quick and stops cutting. So I added the Pro 1k to the rotation a few years ago. They keep each other flat and clean quite nicely.
     
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  29. Dec 19, 2019 #29

    stringer

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    I checked my measurements. My guess was a little off. The new knife is about 48 and the old one is about 42mm height at heel.
     
  30. Dec 19, 2019 #30

    big D

    big D

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    Thank you for remembering and taking the time to measure.
    Appreciated
    D.
     

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