Old Stones
- Thread starter cotedupy
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
Carl Kotte
Senior Member
Great! I’ll play. This is dirty and has some history. It started out as a cracked Shapton PRO 1k, Shapton glass 1k combo. When the sg1k was worn down I added a cracking Naniwa 800 on top of it. Now it’s my dirty ketchup-and-mustard stone.
Here's something I posted in @Carl Kotte 's Unvarnished Patina thread recently, and was met with some considerable opprobrium 
, so here it is in it's proper place.
I found a very grubby, old oilstone in a salvage shop the other day. It was pretty cheap, fairly flat, finer than most you see in this kind of place, and it came with a natty wooden holder:
When I cleaned it up a bit it turned out to be an old Norton India, from the feel I guess Fine or Ultra Fine, it seems about 800 grit.
I gave the dai / holder a bit of a clean, sand down, and oil. Originally I didn't think this holder was original, and that someone might have made it, but I've seen quite a few pics on the internet of identical examples so I reckon they probably did come together.
To fully clean the stone and remove oil I left it in water just off the boil with a dishwasher tablet for a couple of hours. I'm quite pleased with it tbh; it sharpens pretty well using water rather than oil, and is very quick. Plus it looks pretty in its little home, to my eye at least.
, so here it is in it's proper place.I found a very grubby, old oilstone in a salvage shop the other day. It was pretty cheap, fairly flat, finer than most you see in this kind of place, and it came with a natty wooden holder:
When I cleaned it up a bit it turned out to be an old Norton India, from the feel I guess Fine or Ultra Fine, it seems about 800 grit.
I gave the dai / holder a bit of a clean, sand down, and oil. Originally I didn't think this holder was original, and that someone might have made it, but I've seen quite a few pics on the internet of identical examples so I reckon they probably did come together.
To fully clean the stone and remove oil I left it in water just off the boil with a dishwasher tablet for a couple of hours. I'm quite pleased with it tbh; it sharpens pretty well using water rather than oil, and is very quick. Plus it looks pretty in its little home, to my eye at least.
Last edited:
Excellent work! I have a stone I was thinking of glue-ing to another as a diy combi. What's the grey stuff you've used there? I assume I could just use normal epoxy...?
Carl Kotte
Senior Member
If only... it’s just layers and layers of mud
These make excellent tomato killing edges.Here's something I posted in @Carl Kotte 's Unvarnished Patina thread recently, and was met with some considerable opprobrium
I found a very grubby, old oilstone in a salvage shop the other day. It was pretty cheap, fairly flat, finer than most you see in this kind of place, and it came with a natty wooden holder:
View attachment 126510
When I cleaned it up a bit it turned out to be an old Norton India, from the feel I guess Fine or Ultra Fine, it seems about 800 grit.
View attachment 126511
I gave the dai / holder a bit of a clean, sand down, and oil. Originally I didn't think this holder was original, and that someone might have made it, but I've seen quite a few pics on the internet of identical examples so I reckon they probably did come together.
View attachment 126514
To fully clean the stone and remove oil I left it in water just off the boil with a dishwasher tablet for a couple of hours. I'm quite pleased with it tbh; it sharpens pretty well using water rather than oil, and is very quick. Plus it looks pretty in its little home, to my eye at least.
View attachment 126512
Funnily enough when I first tried it, and felt the edge, I thought exactly the same. So went to the fridge and grabbed an old tomato, and yes... they certainly do!
So here's an interesting thing I found yesterday, again in a salvage/antique shop...
I picked it up because I hoped it might be an old Arkansas, but it's pretty tricky to tell when stuff's covered in oil and grime, sitting on a dusty shelf. I wiped it down, and it certainly did feel like novaculite:
But after properly cleaning, flattening the side that needed it, and trying it out, I don't think it is a Hard Black Ark. It's feels a lot like my Translucent, but cuts better - a brilliant stone to use. And it's marginally softer - it took some work, but I managed to do the little bit of flattening needed on a 140 atoma.
I'm relatively certain it's an old Pierre du Levant / Turkish Oilstone. (A couple of other, considerably more expert, people than me have said the same). The type of inclusions and heterogeneity are typical apparently, and I remember reading previously that 'Turkey Stones' were popular in Australia in the 19th century.
If anybody has any more knowledge or thoughts on it I'd be keen to hear. They seem to be quite rare, and thought of quite highly, but there's not a massive amount of info out there. I couldn't really find out, for instance, if and how the old stones differ from modern 'Cretan Hones'...
I picked it up because I hoped it might be an old Arkansas, but it's pretty tricky to tell when stuff's covered in oil and grime, sitting on a dusty shelf. I wiped it down, and it certainly did feel like novaculite:
But after properly cleaning, flattening the side that needed it, and trying it out, I don't think it is a Hard Black Ark. It's feels a lot like my Translucent, but cuts better - a brilliant stone to use. And it's marginally softer - it took some work, but I managed to do the little bit of flattening needed on a 140 atoma.
I'm relatively certain it's an old Pierre du Levant / Turkish Oilstone. (A couple of other, considerably more expert, people than me have said the same). The type of inclusions and heterogeneity are typical apparently, and I remember reading previously that 'Turkey Stones' were popular in Australia in the 19th century.
If anybody has any more knowledge or thoughts on it I'd be keen to hear. They seem to be quite rare, and thought of quite highly, but there's not a massive amount of info out there. I couldn't really find out, for instance, if and how the old stones differ from modern 'Cretan Hones'...
Here's a couple I have. I am no where near knowledgeable on stones to tell you what they are. I believe the middle one is a Washita though which was in with my grandpas carpentry tools along with the ones directly to the right. The one to the left of the Washita with the little "black" mark(divot) is a bear to get flattened. I left it as is after way to long with a diamond plate.
Ooh... well they're nice aren't they! I'm no expert either but from the look of it I'd be pretty certain you're right about the middle being a Washita. The one on the far left looks a lot like my Norton India above. Pretty difficult to guess the two on the right (for me at least), how do they feel?
The one second from the right looks like it might possibly be an Arkansas of some kind...
[Falling slightly down the rabbit-hole of seeing what nice old stones I can pick up on the cheap...]
I bought this a couple of nights ago on ebay from someone who I think was doing a house clearance, judging by the other stuff they had going. And they happened to be very close to me, so I found it on the doorstep the next morning, from the pics I hoped it might be an old Washita. This is it when I received:
After a bit o cleaning:
Post lapping:
And trying out, the slurry from the plate is the kind of milky white of my other novaculite stones:
It's very hard, harder than I was expecting - even a small amount of flattening took a long time with an atoma. It's also finer than I was expecting, but cuts very nicely.
I think I read somewhere that all old Washitas were mined by Norton. Which seems to have the added bonus that it's exactly the same size as the Norton India which the fancy holder above. So now this has the fancy holder instead:
I'm fairly sure this is a Washita, but I've never used one before, so if any experts out there want to give an opinion one way or t'other though I'd be keen to hear...
I bought this a couple of nights ago on ebay from someone who I think was doing a house clearance, judging by the other stuff they had going. And they happened to be very close to me, so I found it on the doorstep the next morning, from the pics I hoped it might be an old Washita. This is it when I received:
After a bit o cleaning:
Post lapping:
And trying out, the slurry from the plate is the kind of milky white of my other novaculite stones:
It's very hard, harder than I was expecting - even a small amount of flattening took a long time with an atoma. It's also finer than I was expecting, but cuts very nicely.
I think I read somewhere that all old Washitas were mined by Norton. Which seems to have the added bonus that it's exactly the same size as the Norton India which the fancy holder above. So now this has the fancy holder instead:
I'm fairly sure this is a Washita, but I've never used one before, so if any experts out there want to give an opinion one way or t'other though I'd be keen to hear...
Nice collection you got there. The second from the right looks like it should be a Charnley forest stone, a Novaculite type stone from Great Britain.
They're all naturals. I just tested them out today(I haven't used them as I have others) on some cheap dull carbon knives I had laying around. I included a picture of the hardest to softest left>right(not including the washita as its the coarsest one) i believe the one on the far right is a slate of some type? The blackish one next to it was by far my most favorite. Cut very fast and shaved some of my arm hair with ease.
I believe you may be correct! It is the hardest/finest of all the stones.
I would say it's washita. I have one that looks very similar and was identified as washita by the folks at b&b.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/favorite-non-japanese-natural-stones.52456/post-796672
Ta. Yeah I'm pretty certain that's what this is now. Which is nice cos that's what I wanted, having read yours and others' opinions of them. I think there's likely to be less variety in old natural stones here in Aus, from what I've read Turkeys and Washitas were the most imported stones back in the day. But I do seem to be able to find them quite cheap - both the Washita and the Turkey Stone above were $40 Aus.
Interesting that you're not such a fan of your Turkey, as I really like mine; it's very quick, pretty fine, and leaves a really nice edge for a knife. Though I imagine it'd be too 'bite-y' on a razor. I assume you refreshed the surface a bit with a plate when you got...?
Ah, if they're all naturals it does get a bit tricky... I've spent a bit of time reading through razor forums recently, the sheer variety of things I never knew existed is quite something!
But let's play the game... The orange-y one could maybe be a different Washita, or perhaps a Hindustan, I believe the latter may often have visible layering if you look at the sides.
Your two on the right of this pic may well both be types of slate-y / shale-y things. The difference between slate and shale can get a little burry I think, and exists on a kind of continuum to do with the amount of metamorphic change involved as far as I understand. There's a lot of variety in slates, but in general are renowned for being the fastest cutters. So perhaps the darker one you said is your favourite may not be. And actually most slate shouldn't be too difficult to flatten, so maybe neither are. Told you it got tricky!
Nice collection whichever way
.You may be on to something! Not a good photo, but it does have layering on the sides.
I'm really unsure about the blackish stone. It is smaller in size to the stone to the far left that i consider the "finest" grit, yet weighs noticeably more, and weighs much more than the "slate" next to it. Could not tell you what that has to do with anything though
But, as you said there are so many variations out there I may never know. Getting a lot more info here compare to what I knew before though.
KingShapton
Senior Member
Aha!
Aha! Yeah that's very distinctive of Hindustan stones apparently. I've never seen one in the flesh, but I think you've probably got a 99% positive id on that. Some info about them starting on page 115 of this document: https://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_3.pdf
The two on the right will end up being difficult to tell I think, without showing them in person to a real expert.
If the one on the left is a Charnley Forest stone - then it would be, as @childermass said, made of the same kind of thing (novaculite) as the Washita, though a finer version. Again - I haven't used one but I imagine it would feel very hard and raise basically no slurry. If it is a Charnley Forest then that's a very nice thing to have. They're not easy to come across and much liked, especially by people who sharpen razors.
The black one which you said is heavy, and very difficult to flatten, could also be made from that... Might possibly be a Black Arkansas.
You may be on to something! Not a good photo, but it does have layering on the sides. View attachment 129030
I'm really unsure about the blackish stone. It is smaller in size to the stone to the far left that i consider the "finest" grit, yet weighs noticeably more, and weighs much more than the "slate" next to it. Could not tell you what that has to do with anything though
Aha! Yeah that's very distinctive of Hindustan stones apparently. I've never seen one in the flesh, but I think you've probably got a 99% positive id on that. Some info about them starting on page 115 of this document: https://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_3.pdf
The two on the right will end up being difficult to tell I think, without showing them in person to a real expert.
If the one on the left is a Charnley Forest stone - then it would be, as @childermass said, made of the same kind of thing (novaculite) as the Washita, though a finer version. Again - I haven't used one but I imagine it would feel very hard and raise basically no slurry. If it is a Charnley Forest then that's a very nice thing to have. They're not easy to come across and much liked, especially by people who sharpen razors.
The black one which you said is heavy, and very difficult to flatten, could also be made from that... Might possibly be a Black Arkansas.
(I only knew about them because of what you said yesterday! But I think that looks pretty certain identification
)
I dont have anything super old, but I definitely have some worn out, and battlescarred dirty stones.
This is my shapton kuromaku 1000 I dropped it, and it broke in half the other day, so i had to make a base for it.
I'll look around and post some more pictures.
This is my shapton kuromaku 1000 I dropped it, and it broke in half the other day, so i had to make a base for it.
I'll look around and post some more pictures.
All right these are my poor battered stones.
My trusty old chosera 800,
My cerax 320
This is where I get my synthetic fingerstones, it's an old new cerax 1000/6000 combo stone.
And a completely worn out atoma 140
My trusty old chosera 800,
My cerax 320
This is where I get my synthetic fingerstones, it's an old new cerax 1000/6000 combo stone.
And a completely worn out atoma 140
They've certainly 'had a good innings' as we say in the UK!
I like the finger stone idea... My King 1200 will get to that point at some stage soonish and it does great kasumi, so I'll probably just break it up for that purpose and get a new one.
I think the king 1200 will make some fine fingerstones. I'm waiting to make some with my chosera 800. It may take a while though, I've been using my shapton a lot more often. I only use the chosera now if I'm going to be finishing on a medium grit stone. Though, now I have a green brick of joy so idk.
Ah yeah, of course you have a King 1200 so know about kasumi it does
. Post permasoaking it's without a doubt my most used stone, I use basically every time I sharpen or polish something, so have been going through a bit!
Yeah it's (permasoaking) a game changer. I save mine for polishing mostly, but every now and then I'll get it out for edge bevels just for the feeling.Ah yeah, of course you have a King 1200 so know about kasumi it does
musicman980
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2016
- Messages
- 435
- Reaction score
- 860
Here’s my old Turkey. Someone carved “1851” into the base.
Pretty! Did you give it a simple green soak or something? I'm wondering if I should for mine above, I suspect it might come out a fair bit lighter and more detailed like yours. I can see all sorts of colours and patterns in the stone, but they don't really come out in pictures atm...
musicman980
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2016
- Messages
- 435
- Reaction score
- 860
I did soak mine in simply green for a few days, and each day it got lighter until it was chalky white. I didn't particularly like the chalky white color, but over time it has turned a bit darker. If you're going to put it in simple green, I'd say no more than a day. Now the bottom of the stone is more like what it once was, and it sits below the surface of the wood.
A day in simple green, fresh out of the vat and then cleaned up.
A few more days in simple green and it lost its charm.
But boy is it fast.
Thank you for the advice here. Maybe I'll try it for a little bit, and monitor the progress closely - I do quite like the look of yours in that intermediary stage. And I can see there's some of the same nice patterning in mine that could come out and shine a bit more (yeah I'm quite shallow and like pretty things
)And yes - jaysus is it quick for something quite fine! I really like mine.
