Open Source Idea -- Custom Butter/Table Knives

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How much are you guys planning to spend on this?
I have to ask, cause Im really broke atm :(
I need to plan this.

Drinky, sending you knives tomorrow. I was gone all weekend :)
 
I am also on a budget, I'm sure everyone is worried that a set of 4-6 knives would end up being expensive. The advantage of doing a group buy on this is that the knifemaker doesn't care if it's one guy ordering ten knives or 10 guys ordering one knife each. Some of us might not be able to afford a set, but I'd be happy to even have one or two if these knives turn out as awesome as I think they will.

There's no reason why a non-damascus version of the knife with exotic handle materials could not also be made by the same maker, who ever it ends up being. That might be less outrageous for people afford as a set.

A lot of people might even want some of each type (damascus and not). I probably would get both if I could.

I think the first step is to thoroughly explore sources of stainless damascus, there really are not a lot of people who make it. There are only a few, and AFAIK none of them is inexpensive. Actually the least expensive form of stainless damascus is the san-mai VG-10 from Japan, but that only seems to come in a random pattern. Shun Kramer line has what they call "waterfall" which is really a ladder pattern.


price per inch 1/8 x 1-1/4"


Devin Thomas

all stainless ladder 12.00 per inch x 5 inches = $60 material

Firestorm ???

Feather pattern ???



Damasteel

20 turn twist 13.50 per inch x 5 inches = 67.50

Rose Pattern 15.00 per inch x 5 = $75


The standard dimensions of the steel is bigger than a typical butter knife, actually. 1/8" is thicker than a table/butter knife. My table knife is 3/4" from spine to edge, which means 40% of the 1.25" billet would be discarded. If we want to make the best use of the damascus materials, a blade shape which will require less removal of steel would be nice. It could still be a table knife, but perhaps a wider blade, it would work better for spreads than a standard butter knife.

Also having an integral forged bolster would increase the cost because each would require forging to shape rather than using their standard billets. I have a feeling doing a feather pattern would also be prohibitively expensive for some because each would have to be custom forged to the shape of the knife rather than using standard billets. There are going to be some people who can afford more expensive patterns or features, and some people who can't. We need to make the design of the knives flexible enough that it can be produced as both high-end and not-so-high end versions, the difference in cost being materials used, not features of the knife which require custom forging on each piece.


Here's more inspiration:

PS05.jpg

PS06.jpg
 
I've been traveling today so just seeing the latest posts. Thanks for the info olpappy. I agree that keeping the cost down should be a concern, but as you said, it doesn't stop a person from ordering 1 or 2. And maybe there are some options that allow for cheaper versions (plain stainless vs. damascus), handle material etc.

As for steel and those crafting the knives, I am a firm believer in working with the makers on this forum, especially the ones that also make damascus and could provide those options. Devin is obviously a top choice, but there is also Randy, Del, Will, Pierre, Rader, B. Burke and others too -- but I am sure some of them would not be interested. I know Randy would be up for it (he's crazy ;)), and it would surprise me if Del wouldn't be up for it. In the summer I mentioned this briefly when talking to Devin, but it was just an idea that I never followed through with, but he seemed open to it then.

I think once we come up with exact specs (maybe a couple designs), we can ask for quotes from those makers interested and see what the price might be and options. Then we can see how many might be in for one or more.

k.
 
oivind_dahle said:
What would be the price on that feather damscus with black handles?
this one that is: http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o170/josferi/kitchen/PS06.jpg
Click to expand...

I would like to know the answer to this as well, though I'm not sure how to go about finding out.

This project is getting more interesting by the day. I really like the design of Pappy's table knife (which I am not sure would work well as a butter knife without being chopped down in size, but no matter), and simple black handles of some sort (horn or wood) are my favorite. The feather pattern is beautiful, but I wouldn't mind a more simple steel either (even plain, like Pappy's).

The only problem I would have with having a knife like this is that I would want forks and spoons to match!
 
Can anybody call Hoss and ask for price on these knives?
Feather damascus feather with black handles would be awesome!
 
Just thinking about how that knife is cut with the line down the center, and having the fork cut out right next to it so the pattern is still flowing up and the spoon on the other side. WOW!! (I hope that makes sense.)
 
I'll try to set up a time to call him this week.

I just received one set of knives in the mail today. The specs on them were:

blade length: 135mm
blade height: 21-22 mm
handle length: 90-100 mm

The length seems pretty good to me, but the handle at 90 mm is too short. I actually think 100-110 would be better. Maybe 105mm.

Obviously cost will depend upon handle design too. A simple bolsterless handle would keep cost down.

One thing I am unsure of with the feather pattern if it will be the most costly. It looks great, but might it be possible to cut more than one blade from a billet since the knives are thin enough, but with the feather pattern, it seems you would need the 'center cut'. Just thinking out loud.

k.
 
I just talked with Hoss about this a bit, and he said that he would love to work on the project, but he doesn't have a rough unit price yet as it depends upon how many knives we are talking about, integral bolster or not, type of wood, dimensions etc.

He openly admitted that he would probably not be the cheapest one to do it, but he also said he would work with us to keep the cost reasonable enough especially if more people want to buy some.

Here are some issues up for discussion:

* Dimensions: Handle, Blade (I posted some above but maybe olpappy can measure his 'freebie' knife to throw that in the mix).
* Wood: Devin mentioned blackwood and cocobolo. Maybe we could decide on a few different options.
* Bolster: No bolster, integral, pinned? Integrals will take more work and cost a bit more. I personally am fine with no bolster.
* Handle: Full tang, narrow hidden tang, or wa if anyone in interested in that. Pins? (yes, no, number).
* Damascus Patterns. Maybe we choose four patterns -- or if someone wants a six-knife set, six patterns.

Anyhow, food for thought. Give your preferences now or forever hold your peace. Even if no one wants any, I am still getting my one-off set :) Once we have these details I can get a price from Devin, and at that point the number of takers may determine the ultimate discount he is willing to give.

As for me, I will probably just get a set of 4 knives.

k.
 
I am on the fence atm. I love to do this, but its kinda getting to a little crunch time. Have to save funds for my nieces hs graduation in may. If it gets over 100-150 I would be out. I know more people in would make this cheaper. I don't want this to be a gorgan knot problem either.
 
Crothcipt said:
I don't want this to be a gorgan knot problem either.
Click to expand...

Yes, but Alexander solved that problem with a knife :knife:
Okay - it was a sword, but it still solved it. :scratchhead:

Can't wait to see the final product.
 
Here is a sketch similar to the knife I have, I have kept the length the same (blade 5.5", handle 5" OAL 263mm) but made the blade wider to be closer to the dimensions of the steel billet. It has a ferrule which could be made of 302 stainless ( the original is brass). Regarding the handle width, I have taken measurements of several butter knives and the handles are 4mm, 6mm, up to 8.5mm at most. A handle which is not thick enough will be very difficult to drill for the tang, so maybe a slightly thick handle would be needed.

scan0001a.jpg


Hi Mr Drinky, I tried sending you PM but it said your box is full.

Here are the measurements of the original, it is rather slim from spine to edge, but if the standard billet is used that would mean grinding away about 40% of the steel. I made a sketch for a knife similar to the one I have, all the same curves except I just made the blade wider to make it closer to the size of a 1-1/4" damascus billet.

Blade, tip to heal: 136mm
Blade, tip to bolster: 138mm (the heal rounds up to the bolster)
Handle Length: 124mm (3mm bolster+121mm handle)
Width: 18mm at heel to 12 mm at tip
Blade thickness at heel: 1.9mm
Blade thickness at midpoint: 1.8mm
Blade thickness at tip: 0.8mm

My favorites for 4 damascus patterns are:

Devin ladder
Devin Firestorm
Damasteel 20 turn twist
Damasteel Rose

Handles: Cocobolo, blackwood, faux MOP, faux ivory (or fossil)

I have different kinds of wood sitting around, what if the customers provide handle material?? I know Stefan has plenty of materials, ha ha.
 
Sorry somehow I screwed up editing my post too many times.

Here's the pic: (right click and select "open image" to view full screen)

scan0001a.jpg


Oh yeah, I thought of an easy way to option a 4 piece set into a 6 piece set, 4 damascus knives plus 2 monosteel knives, one in satin finished 154CM and one in AE-BL etched black to match the damascus ones.

Or, say you wanted a 4 pc set but cost was an issue, you could get 2 damascus and 2 monosteel knives. Or any combination of the above, eg. all 4 in monosteel.

If it were me I'd want different handle material on each knife also. I think it'd be boring if everybody had the same handle materials, I don't know if Devin would consider it a pain in the butt if for example I wanted a unique material like synthetic ivory or faux MOP, rather than him having to source all the materials for all the knives, what if I send him a piece of mammoth ivory or koa or whatever etc...
 
olpappy said:
Sorry somehow I screwed up editing my post too many times.

Here's the pic: (right click and select "open image" to view full screen)

scan0001a.jpg


Oh yeah, I thought of an easy way to option a 4 piece set into a 6 piece set, 4 damascus knives plus 2 monosteel knives, one in satin finished 154CM and one in AE-BL etched black to match the damascus ones.

Or, say you wanted a 4 pc set but cost was an issue, you could get 2 damascus and 2 monosteel knives. Or any combination of the above, eg. all 4 in monosteel.

If it were me I'd want different handle material on each knife also. I think it'd be boring if everybody had the same handle materials, I don't know if Devin would consider it a pain in the butt if for example I wanted a unique material like synthetic ivory or faux MOP, rather than him having to source all the materials for all the knives, what if I send him a piece of mammoth ivory or koa or whatever etc...
Click to expand...

Ok, I am bumping this thread.

Last call for those interested. There was a lot of interest, but I want to move this along. I think there was a lot of good input, but not enough firm interest for Devin to work with larger numbers/discounts.

If you are interested in getting 2, 4, or 6 knives please PM me along with any preferential specs (wood type, tang, pins, steel etc.) We can finish th rest via PM. Otherwise, I am going to order a one-off set of four with four different woods, different damascus patterns, full tang, and with two pins.

I like olpappy's idea of the monosteel. If there is enough interest I will raise it with Devin, but if not, then I am going with straight Devin damascus.

Last call.

k.
 
I was just thinking about this today, and was gonna post a question. Well I forgot about it so now I don't have to.
 
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