Opinion about Wüsthof Classic Ikon

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daveb

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I've done a lot of demos and cooking classes, knife skills classes for a local culinary store. They carry Wusties, Shun, offered Messermeister as special order, did carry Henckels. and even had Ken Onion for a bit.

My recollection is that the Wusties were neutral balanced throughout their lines - one of the reasons I came to prefer the slightly blade heavy Messermeister.

Henckels does not know where it wants to be in the knife world. When I first knew of them they had the Four Star line which was quite solid (still have a couple). Henks wanted some of the cheaper market so they offered the Spanish made lines that were crap. IIRC they make a line in South America. They wanted a piece of Shun's market so they offered Miyabi - a decent housewife knife but not for me. And in cheaper offerings they produce in China.

Henks is still bouncing around and not able to commit to where they want to be, in contrast to Wustie who offers the solid Ikon lines and a less expensive department store line - and thats all.
 

Bobby2shots

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Am I the only person who can't get a good edge on the Victorinox? I'm hoping someone like Panda will come to my rescue and jump up and down on chromium steels to make me feel less inadequate.
Captaincaed, you might want to talk to this guy; go to the 4:00 mark for cut-test.
 

calostro5

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Not sure what you mean, are you talking about sawing off the metal butt, or even more off the handle? I think I'd rather just get a different knife if I didn't like the balance that much.
I read wrong Tour previous comment. I unterstood that you had ground tje knife.
I confused gift with grind. :confused:
 

captaincaed

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Captaincaed, you might want to talk to this guy; go to the 4:00 mark for cut-test.
I mean, I guess? You can make a bronze age knife capable of cutting paper once.

I'm all ready to admit I suck at sharpening but I have no sense of what type of edge that knife had
 

ian

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Captaincaed, you might want to talk to this guy; go to the 4:00 mark for cut-test.
I mean, I guess? You can make a bronze age knife capable of cutting paper once.

I'm all ready to admit I suck at sharpening but I have no sense of what type of edge that knife had
As some consolation, when I was starting out sharpening I did a Vic for someone and found it the worst knife to sharpen that I’d tried. Somehow I haven’t done one since, though, so I have no recent experience, and many on here seem to be pleased with the steel.
 

Bobby2shots

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As some consolation, when I was starting out sharpening I did a Vic for someone and found it the worst knife to sharpen that I’d tried. Somehow I haven’t done one since, though, so I have no recent experience, and many on here seem to be pleased with the steel.
I haven't sharpened any of my Vic's,,, mostly because some are brand new and haven't been used yet,,, but, I bought my 6" Vic Rosewood chef/utility knife 10 months ago, and it's still razor sharp. All I've ever done to it is a very light feathering with either a steel, or my Idahone ceramic rod. Less than 10 seconds, and I'm back to "like new". I use that knife every day, sometimes 4-5 times a day. It's that experience which motivated me to buy a few more Vic's. (10" Rosewood/ 8" Fibrox/ Chinese Cleaver/ Rosewood paring knife). Had I known before buying some of my Wusthofs, I would probably have gone all the way with the Vic's. While I don't find them particularly "pretty",,, they've really grown on me. I love the feel and grip of the Rosewood handles too. It may not be readily noticeable or evident when you simply look at these knives, but a LOT of thought has obviously gone into the materials, ergonomics, and ease of maintenance. I love these Vic's, and may buy a few more. I may think differently after the first sharpening, but I really can't fathom that possibility given my present experience with them.
 
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captaincaed

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As some consolation, when I was starting out sharpening I did a Vic for someone and found it the worst knife to sharpen that I’d tried. Somehow I haven’t done one since, though, so I have no recent experience, and many on here seem to be pleased with the steel.
I just remember spending ages on the 220 stone, much longer than with any other knife. Then when it came to refinement, no dice.
 

Bobby2shots

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I just remember spending ages on the 220 stone, much longer than with any other knife. Then when it came to refinement, no dice.
I can't imagine starting out on such a coarse stone, unless the blade was damaged in some manner. If the knife needed sharpening by virtue of the fact that it had become dull, to the point where a honing was insufficient, I'd probably start out with a trailing edge sharpening on a 1K stone.(depending on the quality of the stone of course). Sharpen 'til you feel the very first sign of a burr, by sliding your thumb "ACROSS" the blade in both directions. Don't wait 'til you have a large burr completely bent over to one side. You'll easily feel the difference in sharpness on one side vs the other. Then, flip the knife and repeat on the other side until you can feel the same point of progress on the blade. Now you can remove the burr with a VERY GENTLE stropping stroke on both sides. You can either use the same stone for stropping, or go to something finer, until the thumb-test tells you the blade feels sharp in both directions as you slide your thumb across the blade. Once you're there, you can use a leather strop to clean up the edge,, and if you don't have one, even a rolled-up piece of damp newspaper will do.

To my way of thinking, coarse stones are strictly for repairing damaged edges (nicks, etc).

Check out Peter Nowlan's knife-sharpening videos. He's excellent as a teacher,,and a master sharpener.


Lesson #2;

 
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ian

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I can't imagine starting out on such a coarse stone, unless the blade was damaged in some manner. If the knife needed sharpening by virtue of the fact that it had become dull, to the point where a honing was insufficient, I'd probably start out with a trailing edge sharpening on a 1K stone.(depending on the quality of the stone of course). Sharpen 'til you feel the very first sign of a burr, by sliding your thumb "ACROSS" the blade in both directions. Don't wait 'til you have a large burr completely bent over to one side. You'll easily feel the difference in sharpness on one side vs the other. Then, flip the knife and repeat on the other side until you can feel the same point of progress on the blade. Now you can remove the burr with a VERY GENTLE stropping stroke on both sides. You can either use the same stone for stropping, or go to something finer, until the thumb-test tells you the blade feels sharp in both directions as you slide your thumb across the blade. Once you're there, you can use a leather strop to clean up the edge,, and if you don't have one, even a rolled-up piece of damp newspaper will do.

To my way of thinking, coarse stones are strictly for repairing damaged edges (nicks, etc).

Check out Peter Nowlan's knife-sharpening videos. He's excellent as a teacher,,and a master sharpener.

Fwiw, coarse stones are fine to sharpen on even if there’s no heavy damage. I’ll totally use coarse stones (eg 300 grit) to get out microchips. I don’t got time to wail on it with a 1k for 5 min...
 

Bobby2shots

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Fwiw, coarse stones are fine to sharpen on even if there’s no heavy damage. I’ll totally use coarse stones (eg 300 grit) to get out microchips. I don’t got time to wail on it with a 1k for 5 min...
I agree,,, micro-chipped, or any other damage, and very coarse is fine. If the edge is intact but dull, then I'll go to the finest stone I can go with,,, and usually for me, that's 1k. I won't automatically start on a much coarser stone if I can avoid it. Mind you, I'm not dealing with heavily rolled-over edges.

A friend recently gave me 15 knives to sharpen for her. She got those knives at the local Centraide store,,,, that's an outfit that sells donated goods. Those knives were in terrible condition. I've never seen edges this bad. The best ones were extremely rolled over along their entire length, and some of the blades were actually split or cracked. All, with the exception of one forged German knife, were garbage. Most of them probably cost well under $10. when new, and most of those cost her under $1. I sharpened them anyway, but I didn't even go to the stones,,, I just ran them through a Chef'sChoice 1520 electric knife sharpener and made them passably usable, and able to smoothly cut paper. On stones, it would have been a several day freebie job. The German knife was worth sharpening however, and it turned out A-1. She was thrilled with all of them however.
 

Ceriano

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Does the 6” ikon make a good all around utility knife? Our local Marshall’s carries them for about $50.
 
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Bobby2shots

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Does the 6” ikon make a good all around utility knife? Our local Marshall’s carries them for about $50.
Are you sure about that model name? There's a Classic IKON, and the "IKON". The difference between the two is in the handle materials. The "Classic IKON" has POM handles, and the IKON has African Blackwood handles, and the IKON is the more expensive of the two.. They typically retail between $90--$170. depending on the specific model you choose. The price you show ($50.), is a great price,,,,, if it's indeed the Classic Ikon or Ikon series. Wusthof has a lower-end series called the "Gourmet" series, and those are the budget series.

One nice feature about the IKON and Classic Ikon is the half-bolster design which allows for a variety of grip styles (pinch-grip, etc) and makes it easier to sharpen (compared to the full bolster models like the "Classic" series.

Wusthof has so many different versions of these so-called "utility" knives that it can be confusing. There's the taller "chef's style" and the "wide chef's style",,, and many more,,, so choose carefully. Some slicer/carver models are not tall enough to allow proper knuckle clearance for chopping/dicing, and are more suited to slicing/carving. You also want to ensure that the edge-type suits your need (serrated vs regular). I would highly recommend you stay away from serrated edge in a do-all- utility knife.

As for overall quality,,, the Classic,,,, Classic Ikon,,, and IKon,,, are indestructable, and they'll probably look as good 40 years from now. They can be incredibly sharp out of the box ( 14 degrees for western style models/ 10 degress for their Asian style knives). Both the Classic Ikon and IKON can be a bit handle-heavy if that matters to you. Overall fit & finish is top-notch. Rockwell hardness is 58.

A 6" utility knife, is the most frequently used knife in my kitchen. Personally, I tend to prefer a somewhat straighter edge utility/sandwich/petty knife over one that has a pronounced belly for chopping/dicing, where I generally prefer an 8" or 10" chef's knife.

Most of my "utility/petty knives fall into the 4.5"-6" range and include Wusthof Classic Ikon,,Shun,,,, Miyabi,,Zwilling Pro,,, and Victorinox Rosewood. I suppose my Wusthof Classic Ikon 7" santoku would also fall within that utility-knife category. If you're not into sharpening with stones, etc. I would recommend the Victorinox Fibrox or Victorinox Rosewood (same knife/different handles) which can be very easy to maintain with a decent butcher steel and ceramic honing rod.

Check out that Marshall's deal that you mentioned,,, and good luck.
 
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Ceriano

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Are you sure about that model name? There's a Classic IKON, and the "IKON". The difference between the two is in the handle materials. The "Classic IKON" has POM handles, and the IKON has African Blackwood handles, and the IKON is the more expensive of the two.. They typically retail between $90--$170. depending on the specific model you choose. The price you show ($50.), is a great price,,,,, if it's indeed the Classic Ikon or Ikon series. Wusthof has a lower-end series called the "Gourmet" series, and those are the budget series.

One nice feature about the IKON and Classic Ikon is the half-bolster design which allows for a variety of grip styles (pinch-grip, etc) and makes it easier to sharpen (compared to the full bolster models like the "Classic" series.

Wusthof has so many different versions of these so-called "utility" knives that it can be confusing. There's the taller "chef's style" and the "wide chef's style",,, and many more,,, so choose carefully. Some slicer/carver models are not tall enough to allow proper knuckle clearance for chopping/dicing, and are more suited to slicing/carving. You also want to ensure that the edge-type suits your need (serrated vs regular). I would highly recommend you stay away from serrated edge in a do-all- utility knife.

As for overall quality,,, the Classic,,,, Classic Ikon,,, and IKon,,, are indestructable, and they'll probably look as good 40 years from now. They can be incredibly sharp out of the box ( 14 degrees). Both the Classic Ikon and IKON can be a bit handle-heavy if that matters to you. Overall fit & finish is top-notch. Rockwell hardness is 58.

A 6" utility knife, is the most frequently used knife in my kitchen. Personally, I tend to prefer a somewhat straighter edge utility/sandwich/petty knife over one that has a pronounced belly for chopping/dicing, where I generally prefer an 8" or 10" chef's knife.

Most of my "utility/petty knives fall into the 4.5"-6" range and include Wusthof Classic Ikon,,Shun,,,, Miyabi,,Zwilling Pro,,, and Victorinox Rosewood. I suppose my Wusthof Classic Ikon 7" santoku would also fall within that utility-knife category. If you're not into sharpening with stones, etc. I would recommend the Victorinox Fibrox or Victorinox Rosewood (same knife/different handles) which can be very easy to maintain with a decent butcher steel and ceramic honing rod.

Check out that Marshall's deal that you mentioned,,, and good luck.
No it was the classic ikon with synthetic handles. surlatable has it for $90 on sale. I guess the 6” is not really in demand. I’ll take a picture if I go back. I was looking for a cheap cutting board.
 

Benuser

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Does the 6” ikon make a good all around utility knife? Our local Marshall’s carries them for about $50.
Hard to imagine where people use those 'utility knives' for. It's a very small chef's. Too small. A large part is taken by the upswing (the belly) towards the high tip.
It's often one of the numerous unused parts of a set. For the money you can get a decent 23cm chef's in carbon steel (C60 @60Rc) by Pallarès Solsona.
By the way, the Wüsthof will require a good sharpening straight out of the box. Comes with a V-edge at an angle the steel can't take or hold. Have seen very spectacular burrs and wire-edges with them. This kind of steel would benefit from a convexed edge, and the removal of the very pronounced shoulders — where bevel and face meet.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Henks & Wussy's almost never see in pro kitchens they all had those full heel bolsters when I started in early 1970's.

Forschners were plentiful. Paid 9.00 for my first 10" rosewood Forchner Honed them on steels & sharpened on large King 1K. Never let them get too dull. Wore down a quite a few Forschners with massive cutting for up to 2,000 person banquets.

Got my first carbon Masamoto 1982 never looked back. These days you can get great Japan gyuto stainless clad with carbon core steel. 200-300$ price range get blades that will blow your mind. All you need is one good gyuto to see the light.

You can use your Wussy's & Vic's. as beater knives doesn't make since to keep buying German & Swiss blades in quantity. Or trying save money buying a cheap not so great Japanese blade.
 

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A short utility knife that gives some of a Chef/Gyuto advantages is a Santoku. That's my take. Flat portion of even a 180mm Gyuto is still very small, and most are a bit too narrow to be truly efficient.

A typical utility knife SHOULD be even narrower but straighter, lighter, nimble and apt to be just that - utilitarian.
 

ModRQC

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Here's a duo that will do all of your basic preps: Victorinox Rosewood Santoku, Victorinox Fibrox 6 inch "Chef"/Utility. Will cost possibly less than the 6" Ikon, Santoku is a nimble and thin little beast with a very flat design that combines most advantages of a Santoku, Nakiri, Bunka. The Fibrox utility with a plastic handle will be your perfect small butchery/light preps of aromatics and smaller stuff. Need a workhouse too? Add the Victorinox Rosewood 10" Chef. A regular workhouse for smaller places/wary people? The 8" of the same. Total US budget I surmised would be around 50+20+50.

Need to know how to sharpen, and to make the best of sharpening soft SS, to enjoy the full potential.
 

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The Wüsthof are 15cm. The smallest gyuto I know is 18cm. The Wüsthof has a high tip and a corresponding large belly. A traditional gyuto has a lower tip. I would prefer a 18cm gyuto over most santokus if it isn't too narrow. The gyuto allows 'guillotine and glide', with the santoku only push-cutting is possible without problems with the low tip.
 

Bobby2shots

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No it was the classic ikon with synthetic handles. surlatable has it for $90 on sale. I guess the 6” is not really in demand. I’ll take a picture if I go back. I was looking for a cheap cutting board.
OK, looking forward to the pics. If it is indeed their "utility model", it has a straighter edge without a pronounced belly like their "cook's knife" has. Personally, I find that straighter edge style much more useful as a general utility knife. That said, my Miyabi and Shun utility knives dohave somewhat of a belly, as does my Zwilling Pro utility. Compared to the Wusthof "utility,," they're taller as well, which helps a bit when scooping up diced veggies, etc. (if that's important to you). As I said above, I tend to prefer an 8" chef's knife for dicing/chopping.

here by the way, is a pic of the 6" utility version;


and here's the 6" cook's knife;

 

Bobby2shots

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Here's a duo that will do all of your basic preps: Victorinox Rosewood Santoku, Victorinox Fibrox 6 inch "Chef"/Utility. Will cost possibly less than the 6" Ikon, Santoku is a nimble and thin little beast with a very flat design that combines most advantages of a Santoku, Nakiri, Bunka. The Fibrox utility with a plastic handle will be your perfect small butchery/light preps of aromatics and smaller stuff. Need a workhouse too? Add the Victorinox Rosewood 10" Chef. A regular workhouse for smaller places/wary people? The 8" of the same. Total US budget I surmised would be around 50+20+50.

Need to know how to sharpen, and to make the best of sharpening soft SS, to enjoy the full potential.
As the owner of most of the knives you've mentioned, I wholeheartedly agree. That said, my 6" Vic Rosewood Utility is without a doubt, the easiest knife to keep sharp that I've ever owned. Purchased in Nov. 2018, and only maintained with light touches from my butcher-steel and ceramic honing rod, it's still a good way off from requiring a sharpening on stones. See-through tomato sliced are a breeze.
 

Bobby2shots

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Hard to imagine where people use those 'utility knives' for.

You might be surprised, especially for making sandwiches,,, or carving up one of those Costco B=B=Q chickens, etc.

It's a very small chef's.

No, there are actually many styles of utility knife. I own six of them.

Too small.

Too small for what??? I don't need a 300mm Yanagiba to prep a tomato sandwich.

A large part is taken by the upswing (the belly) towards the high tip.

That's only partly correct,,,, depends on the specific knife model. My 6" Vic utility for example, doesn't have a particularly pronounced belly.

It's often one of the numerous unused parts of a set.

I have roughly 20 knives, and 5 of them are "utility" knives. My 6" Vic is the most frequently used knife in my kitchen. That said, I'm cooking and preping for one,,, not a family.

For the money you can get a decent 23cm chef's in carbon steel (C60 @60Rc) by Pallarès Solsona.

That's fine when you need a big knife, and I have 8" and 10" knives sitting mostly unused, in the knife drawer.

By the way, the Wüsthof will require a good sharpening straight out of the box.

This tells me you've never actually had your hands on one.

Comes with a V-edge at an angle the steel can't take or hold. Have seen very spectacular burrs and wire-edges with them. This kind of steel would benefit from a convexed edge, and the removal of the very pronounced shoulders — where bevel and face meet.

The Ikons are sharpened to 14 degrees on a laser-guided sharpening system. Their santoku and Nakiri are 10 degrees. Shoulders need removal???? You REALLY need to actually look at one "in-the-flesh" instead of speculating on internet logic. I'm not saying that to be contrary,,, you REALLY DO need to see for yourself. We're not talking 40 year old models here. Those were built like battle-axes.
 

Ceriano

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OK, looking forward to the pics. If it is indeed their "utility model", it has a straighter edge without a pronounced belly like their "cook's knife" has. Personally, I find that straighter edge style much more useful as a general utility knife. That said, my Miyabi and Shun utility knives dohave somewhat of a belly, as does my Zwilling Pro utility. Compared to the Wusthof "utility,," they're taller as well, which helps a bit when scooping up diced veggies, etc. (if that's important to you). As I said above, I tend to prefer an 8" chef's knife for dicing/chopping.

here by the way, is a pic of the 6" utility version;


and here's the 6" cook's knife;

No it was the second one. 6" cook's knife. They also had a set for $299 or $399. It was the classic set I believe. again I wasn't shopping for a knife up there :)

 

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The Wüsthof are 15cm. The smallest gyuto I know is 18cm. The Wüsthof has a high tip and a corresponding large belly. A traditional gyuto has a lower tip. I would prefer a 18cm gyuto over most santokus if it isn't too narrow. The gyuto allows 'guillotine and glide', with the santoku only push-cutting is possible without problems with the low tip.
There are 150mm Gyuto, and I kindly disagree that a Santoku cannot guillotine and glide. Even a Victo can and it’s short without much or a curve. Of course stacks or produce has to be fitting. Which is why I only advise of Santokus when the OP seems to be asking for short but all-around Gyuto like usage. Whenever the 200mm mark is hit a Gyuto is the best choice. Shorter than that it really depends on profile, used techniques, and end results - Santokus can be marvelous knives at that.

With all due respect of course.
 

Bobby2shots

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The Wüsthof are 15cm. The smallest gyuto I know is 18cm. The Wüsthof has a high tip and a corresponding large belly. A traditional gyuto has a lower tip. I would prefer a 18cm gyuto over most santokus if it isn't too narrow. The gyuto allows 'guillotine and glide', with the santoku only push-cutting is possible without problems with the low tip.
You're not describing the correct knife.... the 6" utility is straight, and quite narrow. The 6" "cook's knife" is the knife you're describing.
 

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He was describing exactly the right thing and was right in his assessment of the thing. As per the OP- Ikon Classic 6 inches Chef. I might disagree with him on the Santoku thing his points were valuable still.
 

Ceriano

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You're not describing the correct knife.... the 6" utility is straight, and quite narrow. The 6" "cook's knife" is the knife you're describing.
Yes 6” cook’s knife :) I prefer longer chef knives, I was wondering if this would make a decent all around utility knife. Sorry for confusion.
 

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I think that, of all due sense replies posted here... DON’T buy a set.

or at least if you will tell us the One. We’ll keep you two days under strict custody, allowed to see only pure nymphomaniac barely legal virgins, then will ask of you what each of the knife in the set is about - or as @Benuser so rightly said, not so much about anything at all - and if you can’t tell what knife is what, what length and for what... don’t buy the damn set.

Agree with anyone you will here... just DON’T buy a set.
 

Ceriano

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I think that, of all due sense replies posted here... DON’T buy a set.

or at least if you will tell us the One. We’ll keep you two days under strict custody, allowed to see only pure nymphomaniac barely legal virgins, then will ask of you what each of the knife in the set is about - or as @Benuser so rightly said, not so much about anything at all - and if you can’t tell what knife is what, what length and for what... don’t buy the damn set.

Agree with anyone you will here... just DON’T buy a set.
no worries I wasn’t planning on buying a set anyways! :)
 
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